Sub Teachers and Regular Teachers Apart

Discussion in 'Substitute Teachers' started by midwood_trail, Aug 6, 2008.

  1. midwood_trail

    midwood_trail Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 6, 2008

    As a sub teacher during the school year in NYC, I have seen how apart sub teachers and regular teachers are in the schools, especially in the teacher lounges.

    I can clearly see that regular teachers, for some reason, do not see subs eye to eye.

    As a sub, do you often feel this way?

    Can you relate to what I am saying here?

    I work a sub teacher in the school year and as a summer high school math tutor.

    Your thoughts?
     
  2.  
  3. emmakate218

    emmakate218 Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,729
    Likes Received:
    1

    Aug 6, 2008

    I'm sure that there are many teachers that don't see substitute teachers as their equals. I think though that it's important for substitute teachers to reflect on whether this thought is all in their heads. That sounds really harsh, but we're all human. We all at one point or another have thought we're not as equal to someone else and we've tried to tell ourselves it's because of that someone else's behavior towards us. I'm sure as a first year teacher, the thought that my fellow teachers see me as not being qualified may pop into my head from time to time, but I'll have to really reflect on whether I'm putting that thought into my head.
     
  4. dkaree

    dkaree Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 6, 2008

    My experience

    I sub in rural Iowa, where I live, where I taught, and where I attended school myself. Therefore, my situation is quite different from what you are observing. We have to be certified teachers to sub, so maybe the teachers here feel like we are all on the same page. When I taught, I always welcomed subs....but again, we all know each other because of the "small town" atmosphere. Subbing in NYC would be nothing like subbing here.

    I sometimes feel out of the loop, because I don't have all the behind the scenes info, but that's to be expected. I do know that because we are not considered staff, teachers have to be cautious about what they discuss in front of us. That can make the lounge a difficult place to be. I very seldom go to the lounge unless I'm invited. I know these teachers personally, but I sometimes think they need their time for private conversations.

    Those are my thoughts....from a totally different perspective.
     
  5. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,959
    Likes Received:
    2,115

    Aug 6, 2008


    'Regular' teachers are part of a union or association. There is an unspoken alliance, code of omerta if you will, among the ranks of teadhers within a district. While there are great subs with whom I will share 'insider information', those are few and far between. It's not that the regular day-to-day subs are not respected or appreciated- you just haven't 'earned your stripes' yet.
     
  6. LoVe 2 TcH

    LoVe 2 TcH Companion

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 6, 2008

    I agree with PP.

    I think that some reg. teachers feel they are better than the subs. I know that as a sub, I felt that the reg teacher thought they were better than me... Now, I try to be super nice to the subs, because I do not want them to feel the way I did.
     
  7. peggy27

    peggy27 Cohort

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 6, 2008

    I think it depends on the school you are in. I was a sub 13 years ago and some schools were friendly and others weren't. Some teachers were just snotty and thought they were better than you. Others would chat with you at lunch. Now as a regular teacher I always try to say hi to our subs and talk with them in the teacher lounge. It's just respectful. Plus you never know when you might need a sub.
     
  8. Mrs. K.

    Mrs. K. Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,290
    Likes Received:
    121

    Aug 6, 2008

    Some subs are great, and they're the ones we fight over. However, some are not. The only thing you need in CA to sub is to pass the CBEST exam (which I think is incredibly easy). On more than one occasion, I have left detailed lesson plans only to have the sub ignore them and spend the period talking to my students about something completely unrelated. Now I have one that I know I can rely on to teach the lessons I need my kids to complete, and I request her every time. A good sub is hard to find, so I make sure to thank her in advance in my notes and I usually leave a little treat in my drawer for her.
     
  9. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,933
    Likes Received:
    1,423

    Aug 6, 2008

    I was generally treated very well by people when I subbed. I spent most every day at the high school or the middle school, so the teachers saw me frequently. I always did what I was supposed to do, and I was treated well. I only subbed in elementary schools when it was an emergency for the sub-calling guy since I'm NOT elementary by any stretch of the imagination. Those teachers treated me fine, but were not as outgoing to me . . . but they rarely saw me either.

    We try to treat our subs well and check on them during the day to make sure things are going fine if they're new to our building. We have a few that we avoid . . . but it because of their personality, not their sub status.
     
  10. Lindsay.Lou

    Lindsay.Lou Companion

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 6, 2008

    I think it all boils down to subs coming and going and regular teachers being there every day. Regular teachers work with the other regular teachers on a daily basis, so we get to know each other. On the other hand, a given sub might only come in once a week. Or, they might come every day for six weeks, and then never again. It's hard to form relationships with people you don't see with any regularity.
     
  11. trayums

    trayums Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,424
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 6, 2008

    I think I said this in another post of yours but I'll say it again. Not all schools/districts are that way. My school and staff seems to be very welcoming and try to be kind and helpful to substitutes. I am always very grateful for good guest teachers. Of course there will be some kind of divide because the staff of the school is together every single day.
     
  12. SuzieQ

    SuzieQ Companion

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 6, 2008

    When I was a sub I did notice some teachers were snotty while others were very welcoming. I always make it a point to say good morning to all staff from aides to custodians to teachers and other subs. Most would respond, a few would barely smile and others wouldn't even make eye contact. However once I started putting in my time I began having preferences at schools. You can start choosing the assignments you want and feel comfortable about. I actually made friends with many of the teachers and they actually encouraged me to finish my credential and helped me out sooo much with observations, lesson plans etc.. There are some great teachers who want to share their knowlege but I agree that some other teachers that were very cliqueish (sp) or would not even look at you. I didn't expect anything from a teacher such as friendship but a nice reply to a "hello" shouldn't be too much. Smiles are nice too!:)
     
  13. nasimi77

    nasimi77 Groupie

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,429
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 6, 2008

    I'd be careful in your phrasing there. There's a lot of "subs" who have been displaced, who sometimes have more experience than the teachers. The district I work in, subs have to be fully credentialed...and some have years of experience, perhaps either from private schools, or even working in another state. I'd say they've earned their stripes, and then some.
     
  14. TAZmo

    TAZmo Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 6, 2008

    I think when I was subbed I was mostly respected. However there are some teachers that never respect subs. I try to help them out whenever I can. My sub notes are very detailed so that they know what to do. I never know if the sub I think is going to be in my c lassroom is the one that will be there. It has happened that I thought one lady was coming in and another one came in for her instead. Therefore, not knowing who is familiar with my routines I act as if they are not familiar with them at all. They usually appreciate that. I also have one sub that I request to not have. She disregards my notes, brings in games if she is there more than one day, and tells my students to SHUT UP! (I hate that!!!) I never tell my students to shut up, nor do I let them tell each other that. I think it's downright rude! Anyway to make a long story short, just like teachers, there are good subs and bad subs. I do try to be nice to all!
     
  15. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,154
    Likes Received:
    1

    Aug 6, 2008

    That's pretty much my thought. Add interns, practicum students, volunteers, etc. to the list it can be kinda hard to work beyond the politeness and moving on to building a relationship. On the other hand, the other staff is there pretty much every day of the year. Even the staff divides often based on job roles, expectations and even grade levels. It's not an easy blend.
     
  16. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,065
    Likes Received:
    1,886

    Aug 7, 2008

    I'm friendly and polite to the subs in our school--say "hi", ask who they are subbing for, ask how things are going and ask if they need help with anything, but don't usually go beyond that. Quite simply, I'm not aloof nor do I feel that I am above anyone else. I'm quite shy, and striking up a conversation with someone I don't know, is very difficult, especially if it is someone I won't see again.
     
  17. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,498
    Likes Received:
    1,616

    Aug 7, 2008

    There is one school district I'm so sad to leave behind now that I've been hired full time. It was a substitute's dream. They made me feel welcome from the moment they gave me my own ID badge (no sticker temp IDs ruining my clothes). :)

    The admin staff knew me on sight and always had something kind to say. The teachers took the time to know me, so they also knew to ask for me (I was there almost every day because the school had my loyalty). The kids were glad to have me in the class but they knew I had the lesson plans in my hand at all times. In turn, I followed that lesson plan faithfully but took full ownership of the class. For that day, they were MY KIDS.

    The best part? The faculty always let me know what classroom was going to be the ladies' lunch nook and made sure I was welcome into the conversation. They knew I had a cat with diabetes and a husband who loves geology. They considered me part of their group.

    God in Heaven, I will miss subbing there! :love:
     
  18. Proud2BATeacher

    Proud2BATeacher Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,896
    Likes Received:
    5

    Aug 7, 2008

    You will find that these teachers will do the same thing to their co-workers. I work with teachers who will give you no eye contact when passing down the hallway and those who I may have to say good morning 3 times before I get a response and then when I stop initiating saying good morning they get all snotty with me.
     
  19. Proud2BATeacher

    Proud2BATeacher Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,896
    Likes Received:
    5

    Aug 7, 2008


    I agree that this has to be taken into consideration.
     
  20. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,959
    Likes Received:
    2,115

    Aug 7, 2008

    I mean your 'stripes' in the district...getting to know people, developing a reputation as a dependable, good sub. Yes, people should always be polite-bottom line. Trust, though, that has to be earned. There are plenty of certified subs (and teachers, as well) who have yet to prove themselves.:2cents:
     
  21. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,606
    Likes Received:
    2,713

    Aug 8, 2008

    In many districts, anyone who has a college degree can be a sub. In some districts, you don't even need that. It's hard for regular classroom teachers (I'll put myself out there, just being honest) to view subs as equals because in many cases the sub hasn't been educated in the same way or gone through the hoops of everyday teaching.

    It can be easy to waltz into a classroom, do what the teacher has already planned, and walk away. It's much more difficult to establish appropriate and meaningful, long-lasting relationships with many students (sometimes hundreds of students), and do all the planning, implementing, follow-up, parent contact, documentation, etc. I'm not saying that subbing doesn't have it's own challenges...but I'm also not saying that it's the most difficult thing in the universe.

    No, not all regular classroom teachers treat subs with respect. Should they? Of course. But that doesn't mean that the regular teacher needs to necessarily bow down before the sub and praise their subly efforts.

    Sometimes subs can come across like they are better than the regular classroom teacher. There can sometimes be an attitude that suggests that the sub is better in all respects because the sub is new and fresh, whereas the regular classroom teacher is old and dated in the way they run their classroom.

    I'm just sayin'....
     
  22. hatima

    hatima Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    2

    Aug 8, 2008

    As a sub this varies greatly from school to school. Most schools I am at regularly will eat lunch and converse with me and other subs in the lounge. Many care and are concerned about how subs feel about pay and work. Some are not aware of how poor the pay is, or the fact that there are no benifits. I have only been to one school were subs were clearly not welcome, and no I will not return to that school. But all other schools I have been to in Albuquerque are inviting and sociable.
     
  23. hatima

    hatima Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    2

    Aug 8, 2008

    I have got that impression directly from some teachers. I hold a teaching license and go out of my way to insure the lesson plans are followed. I've even had teachers come and ask me to trade jobs with another sub at the school. Some subs do not care. I have talked to several who are like that. SOME feel that a sub is a chance for the kids to play all day. Which is stupid. Just because the teacher is out I do not feel that students should miss out on education. I have even told other subs that I would expect a sub in my class to uphold learning and my management plan for the time he or she is in my classroom. I know some subs who do a half-*)(& job because of the really bad pay. I'm trying to demonstrate I CAN teach, and don't feel poor pay is deserving of a poor job.
     
  24. Proud2BATeacher

    Proud2BATeacher Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,896
    Likes Received:
    5

    Aug 8, 2008

    The county that I worked for in Georgia told us that we were not to expect our subs to "teach". We had to leave busy work behind. Anyone who graduated from high school and went to a "subbing" course and passed a quiz could sub. So we had 17 yr. old high school grads subbing in really rough classrooms.
     
  25. trayums

    trayums Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,424
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 8, 2008

    WoW!!! 17 year olds subbing?? Eeeeek. We have to leave plans as regular to our schedule and teaching as possible. I find it really hard because Everyday Math isn't guest teacher friendly when they are not familiar with it and Reading and Writing workshops are tricky too when you're not familiar with it. Oh well-- I guess I got off the topic there! :lol:
     
  26. nasimi77

    nasimi77 Groupie

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,429
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 11, 2008


    Thanks for the clarification.
     
  27. wuttaeal

    wuttaeal Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 11, 2008

    In my state, you have to have a certificate to sub, which means at the very least, college degree. I was able to get mine b/c I had previously had an elementary license, which I let lapse several years ago.

    Several of the subs I know are retired teachers or sahms who want to keep current with their license but only work pt (like me). I think that can make a huge difference. The teachers really have no way of knowing a sub's background/teaching experience.

    When I was a classroom teacher, I couldn't imagine treating subs any different than my peers. I was always appreciative they were willing to take my class.
     
  28. teachin4ever

    teachin4ever Cohort

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2007
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    1

    Aug 11, 2008

    I agree with the OP to an extent. I subbed for a little over a year before I got a teaching job, and I often felt as if I the other teachers weren't friendly to me because I was a sub. Yes, this could have been in my head, but I did overhear one teacher tell another teacher at a school I was subbing for that subs were just "hired help".:down: So that may be why I feel the way I do.

    Now, on the other hand, I have gone into schools where I was welcomed with open arms and treated very politely. I can't tell you how much more at ease this made me. It was great knowing that if things got out of hand or if I wasn't sure about something, I had someone to go to.

    If you think your first day as a new teacher is hard, try being the new teacher EVERY DAY. That's what a sub does. Everyday, I was at a new school, with new teachers and new students (I subbed in 5 districts. Rarely was I at the same school twice). It was overwhelming at times, especially when I didn't feel like I was getting the support I needed from the other teachers.

    I think it all depends on they type of person though. If they're a nice person in general, chances are, they're going to be nice to you. If they have a bad attitude about everything, of course they're going to have a bad attitude towards a sub.
     
  29. LonGuy

    LonGuy Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 12, 2008

    I only read the original message, and have not read anybody else's comments yet. Please forgive me if I am not following the discussion.

    I think it can be very different from school to school. Even when I was student teaching, what you described was the case at some schools. Teachers were looking away from or avoiding me, and never talked to me when I was there for 3 weeks.

    I started working as a substitute teacher in May, and did not know anybody in the board. I am even a non-white person in a very white community. The school I substituted for a while treated me very nicely, and staff members were always trying to include me for all the things happening in the school.

    If I had a right to choose which school to work as a permanent teacher, I would avoid those schools which ignore substitute teachers and student teachers. These kind of things can tell a lot about schools.
     
  30. mandagap06

    mandagap06 Devotee

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 12, 2008

    O my gosh!!! I was going to make a thread like this!! I so feel that this most of the time. I do have to think about the fact (well for my area) subs don't have a degree and teachers do. I don't think they should feel like they are better than us since they have that degree. I wish reg. Teachers understand what would they do if they were not able to have a sub and they had to come to school weither they were sick, need a vacation, or had a meeting. What would they do then? I bet they would say I only I was nicer to my subs and made them feel like they are worth something. Sometimes I feel like they think of us like a lot of people think of Garbage men or other type jobs in that they don't respect or apprsiate them until they are not there you know.
     
  31. mandagap06

    mandagap06 Devotee

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 12, 2008

    In our area you have to be at least 19yrs old or older I started subbing at 19yrs old (now 21)
     
  32. SuzieQ

    SuzieQ Companion

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 13, 2008

    Proud2BATeacher


    You will find that these teachers will do the same thing to their co-workers. I work with teachers who will give you no eye contact when passing down the hallway and those who I may have to say good morning 3 times before I get a response and then when I stop initiating saying good morning they get all snotty with me.


    You are right I shouldn't take it personal. But I am so glad I subbed. I feel that I learned so much from other teachers as well as their lesson plans and instructions that I don't regret a thing. I also learned that I have to deal with different personalities and I just have to go with the flow. I still feel it is important to greet others while I get a response or not ,but that's how I grew up. Maybe that's why I love working with young children, they always brighten my day!
     
  33. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,881
    Likes Received:
    159

    Aug 19, 2008

    I'm well aware that there's probably a difference between how the regular teachers view the subs, but I'm not the social butterfly type. At lunch, I've gone to the lounge maybe a couple times, but I much rather prefer to stay in the room w/ my magazine & enjoy the peace & quiet.

    But, all I can do is be as nice as I can. If they don't like me & ignore me, so be it.
     
  34. pamms

    pamms Comrade

    Joined:
    May 14, 2005
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 23, 2008

    I think there are several factors at work here. A sub who is there for a day or 2 is not the same as the teacher in that he/she is not doing planning, does not have to develop discipline plans, is not responsible for the childrens' education. Because of that, they are rarely included in conversations that relate to those things...which are the majority of the conversations in our teacher's lounge. Remember that in many cases, the brief time at lunch is often the only time we see the other teachers on our team that day, so that's when we have to have those quick meetings, etc....it also means that sometimes we don't even realize that a teacher has a sub, so unless you are a well known sub, and you know where to sit (at the right table in the lounge) we may not even realize you are subbing for one of our team. I know that has happened on more than one occasion. And then, there is the issue of confidentiality. We try to be cautious about what we say in front of whom, so if there is conversation about students, etc. It may be that you (as an unknown sub) are intentionally left out for that reason. I really don't think, in most cases) that the teachers make that much of a differentiation between the degreed and non-degreed, etc.
     
  35. K-5Sub

    K-5Sub Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 23, 2008

    Subbing

    I am fortunate to be working in an elementary school that appreciates me and helps me to continue to learn different teaching techniques. I am able to keep the learning moving forward and read the teachers plans for a whole week and such. I was even trusted for the first whole week of school to work in the Pre-k classroom. The principal communicates with me, and I have teachers competing to get me to work for them when there are in-service classes available. I worked so much last year that I only had 1-2 days off a month. I'm already booked for 3 out of 5 days next week. I have been so blessed to have such a school. Now on a high school level, I am not annointed in, and choose not to attempt, even though I am homeschooling a 10 grader.
     
  36. K-5Sub

    K-5Sub Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 23, 2008

    small town subbing

    I am fortunate to be subbing in a large school district but my children have been at the school I am subbing in for the last 5 years, so I know almost all the teachers, and kids, and the tier needs and attitude needs. I also subscribe to such places as edhelper and include fun incentives for completion rewards. The students also have learned that I walk into the classroom thinking that every child is good, until the mistake has been made, so I'm not starting off the day "looking" for problems from a certain child. I also love to go to the dollar store and get erasers, pencils, and sharpeners and such, hand out raffel tickets for each completed classroom assignment, then we can draw at the end of the day to pick from the "box". I get alot of classroom work and this way Everyone stands a chance, just complete work, you don't get knocked out because of an attitude problem. This also seems to keep the attitudes better. In Arkansas, we just have to have our associates degree to sub, but I am working on a bachelors degree, and may even change my major to elem. ed I like subbing so much, then I can do long term subbing.
     
  37. K-5Sub

    K-5Sub Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 23, 2008

    I agree it is about how the sub follows the directions left, and being involved in the school. I know I started subbing because I wanted to be able to know what I was talking about when I was upset with a teacher. I am also a Parent Mentor for the "Partners in Literacy" and the "Stop and Think" program that is implemented in our school. We are part of the SIG group. So the teachers know I have been trained (and got 6 credit hours) just like they got. Additionally being involved in every grade level in the school. I love what I do!
     
  38. K-5Sub

    K-5Sub Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 23, 2008

    You know the kids just want to hear that they are "good" or that they tried well. I have found that most of my "problem" children don't know how to act any better, the type of display they have at home is not what I have found most teachers display in the classroom and out of the classroom. I have the best of both worlds, the teachers like me and the kids like me and try to behave for me! I do, also, love to see the different rooms; how they are set up and different reward incentives, and different techniques. The principal and teachers have even offered to let me sit in and observe different classrooms if I ever get time.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. Pi-R-Squared,
  2. vickilyn,
  3. kdot,
  4. waterfall,
  5. Joshua A Harris,
  6. RainStorm
Total: 350 (members: 8, guests: 322, robots: 20)
test