"STUPID IN AMERICA"

Discussion in 'General Education Archives' started by chicagoturtle, Sep 1, 2006.

  1. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

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    I think this is a rerun...

    We heard a lot about it in our union newsletter but I never caught it...

    Anyway it is on now on ABC so if you have it and you're home then you can watch it--
     
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  3. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

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    Umm John Stossal can feel free to come see my school--- and then see that I work my @r$e off... Is my school perfect? He!! no! I teach in inner-city Chicago.
    Do we have dedicated teachers? Yes! Do we have a few bad eggs that aren't getting fired because of union crap? Yes.. Are our kids meeting all the NCLB acts? No. Considering our mobility rate (most of our kids only complete 1-2 years at our school at the most) it is pretty hard for them to judge all the problems on us when some of them come to us in fourth grade and cannot even identify the letters in their name. (THIS HAS HAPPENED)...
    I don't agree the union does everything 100% right, but I know I work hard as do many of us. He made some comment about how nice it was that our contract only lets us work 6.30 hours a day and how "NICE" that must be. Like many of us clock right in and clock right out. Like many of us don't spend hours at home doing work for school not to mention the amount of our salaries that go back to supplies. I AM SORRY I am only about to be a third year but I KNOW that I am dedicated to my students. I shouldn't have to be mocked by members of the press and members of the government. What CRAP!
     
  4. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    He also didn't touch upon the challenges kids bring to school that affect their learning i.e. mobility of students, poverty, lack of parental support.

    I do believe that he is right in saying that parents should have the right to choose what school to send their children to. It doesn't need to be based upon where a child lives.

    The teachers who work only the school hours (Ours are 7:30-3:30) with a 7:50-3:15 school day, actually 3:30 by the time latchkey pickup, also tend to be the teachers with the negative attitudes. At least that's the way it is in my building.

    He can come visit my classroom any time & see what I do all day and how hard I work! I'm there by 7:15 & don't leave before 4:00 on days that I don't tutor. I tutor 3 days a week & don't leave until 5:00 on those days. I also mentor a couple of new teachers. I take work home & do my planning on the weekends.

    Last year I had a gifted child in my classroom, along with 3 or 4 that were learning disabled. We haven't started yet, but I have 30 kids on my class list. 2 of those receive speech services, 1 was in the process of getting his hearing checked & may be partially deaf. Another child has severe behavior issues that did get better throughout the year. Plus I have had several teachers tell me that so and so was below grade level. I know that I will be working hard with this group of kids!
     
  5. Ann2006

    Ann2006 Cohort

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    I just saw this thread and to be honest, I don't want to see that show because I can't stand it when people outside of any profession criticize someone in that profession! Doesn't even make any sense. Whenever there is criticism, I consider the source.
     
  6. elem_teacher3

    elem_teacher3 Companion

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    I saw the airing last night. He has a valid point about schools needing some competition. Competition is a good thing...for everyone involved. Parents should have a right to choose a good school for their children. It is not fair to be forced to send your kids to an 'at risk' school. He never said all public schools are bad. But everyone knows whether they are 'union' or not that this country does have some very troubled institutions. That was the point he was making.
     
  7. teacher333

    teacher333 Devotee

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    The first one he did was much more inflammatory, as only he can be! I am sure for every school that would turn him down to come in and film, there must be at least 50 that would welcome him, to help set the record straight. It would be interesting to see him in the classroom setting! Maybe he should see the Ron Clark movie or Ron Clark should have him come in and see him!

    I do agree with having the right to choose your child's school. It might force certain school districts and boards of education to sit up and take notice to what their school staffs have been saying to them for years! We DO know what we speak of!
     
  8. elem_teacher3

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    I think it is a shame that there is ANY public school that would not allow a film crew in to film what is happening in the classroom. It is a public institution funded by taxpayer's money. Denying access into the schools really shows they have something to hide...
     
  9. becky

    becky Enthusiast

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    On the homeschool board they're saying homeschooling got bashed, too. What was the point of this show?
     
  10. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Probably to push for privatization and corporatization of education, as though the corporate model were remotely appropriate for the classroom.
     
  11. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

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    Probably just to make us look bad cause you know all teachers are involved in unions and they only keep their job because the union protects them and ALLOWS them to only work 6 hours a day (which corporate America would dream of), and take all those sick days etc... Okay end of Sarcasm---

    Maybe I'll mail him a copy of "Teachers Have It Easy."
     
  12. becky

    becky Enthusiast

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    turtle, you forgot to mention the summers off! And you KNOW I don't mean that!

    While I didn't see this show, it sounds alot like Geraldo's peek into Capone's vault, or what ever he looked into, and found nothing.
     
  13. Good1

    Good1 Rookie

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    If say a doctor, teacher, or whom ever is doing something wrong and not doing their job like it should be done (hurting people), if it is true, than people have every right to criticize.
     
  14. Ann2006

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    I absolutely agree that if someone isn't doing their job properly, then people have a right to know. It may make for some newsworthy shows.

    I've read many of your posts Good1 and it is a shame your friend's son was so mistreated at his school. I can tell that this hurt you deeply as well and I , by no means, want you to think people who do things wrong should be allowed to continue misusing their authority.

    I have never seen Stupid in America and was simply stating my reason for never wanting to watch it. No harm...no foul....;)
     
  15. Giggles1100

    Giggles1100 Comrade

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    Ok I did not see it, it makes me mad hearing some of the stuff said on it, but I am curious, what states have unions for their teachers?Maybe we call it something different here but I am not sure there ar unions here in Texas, unless you are referring to ATPE and other associations. Also if those are different I am curious what unions allow vs. Texas teacher stuff.
     
  16. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

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    We have a union in CPS--- It's the Chicago Teachers Union. I know they had one in Madison, WI too. I think it was actually called solidarity.
     
  17. Good1

    Good1 Rookie

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    I put myself in others shoes. I think like .. what if this was me, or my child? How would I feel, or deal with the mistreatment? I really don't know how the parents of children that are special deal with it. No one is there to help them. How can these people live with themselves is the big question. I know I couldn't. Don't these fools know God knows what they have done, and they will have to deal with this later? Even if these jerks don't believe in God, you would think they would care about their job and being professional. No, all they care about is their paychecks and going to work and playing games.Yeap, worse than a 2yr old. You know.. the terrible 2's. No, I think (in this case) a 2 yr old acts better. They don't act like an idiot and they are a lot more mature.
     
  18. Good1

    Good1 Rookie

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    Thank you ! :)
     
  19. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

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    Good1--
    I'm sorry I am not sure of the background but I can assure you not all SPED teachers are bad. I treat my babies with the utmost respect. I keep in regular contact with my families and after the first week or two for the kids to adjust providing the parent can prove s/he has had a TB test (state requirment) I welcome them into my classroom at anytime. The reason I get upset about these shows is that they are showing all "the bad things about education" but they don't focus on what does work--unless that is a charter or catholic school without a union--because the unions apparently are what control the evil---- I really don't rely on the union for much at all and I beleieve even if we were not unionized I'd still have my job...
     
  20. elem_teacher3

    elem_teacher3 Companion

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    You know what I found to be an eye opener...are the empty buildings and empty classrooms that 'bad' teacher were sent to so they aren't in contact with children...but still have to be paid before they can be fired. Were they called 'Rubber rooms?' or something like that. That is insane!!
     
  21. rhassinger

    rhassinger Rookie

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    Libertarians (of which Stossel is hard-core - he is even against smoking bans because it denies free choice) are often correct in their criticisms of government systems that monopolize or alter markets. However libertarianism is just a model that does not work well when implemented purely, just as socialism has failed almost everywhere it was enforced. You need a mix of models to have a sustainable, prosperous system. Stossel is not perfect though and has slipped up a few times, such as recently when he railed against the theory of global warming with evidence that actually supported the viewpoint he was trying to debunk. If you want to view the program it is available on bittorrents.
     
  22. rhassinger

    rhassinger Rookie

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    GM and Ford have places like that, they are a result of union negotiations from many years ago when things were good. When they desperately need to close factories, the companies had to spend millions paying the displaced employees to sit in a big room and do nothing. There was a lengthy article about it in the WSJ earlier this year. I would not be surprised if a few teachers unions got that written into their contract. Pretty sad.
     
  23. elem_teacher3

    elem_teacher3 Companion

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    Libertarians?? Global warming??? Isn't this thread about the "Stupid in America" broadcast? All politics aside...let's talk about the problems and solutions we have found in America's public schools. I agree that not all schools nor teachers are bad...on the contrary, there HAS to be more dedicated than not because our school system is still up and running...however, there are some major problems...how do we address those?
     
  24. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

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    Get rid of the crazy testing and let us get back to teaching-----
    I have standardized tests for 3 year olds!
     
  25. elem_teacher3

    elem_teacher3 Companion

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    Alright Chicagoturtle and how do we then track progress? I too am not a HUGE fan of standardized testing...but I do see why it has to be implemented. What else can be done to make sure our kids are beng educated?
     
  26. rhassinger

    rhassinger Rookie

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    In order to understand where Stossel is coming from, you first have to understand his politics. If you don't do this then you wind up sounding like a blathering idiot and he makes a follow-up broadcast that makes you look even more incompetent. But seriously, establishing his viewpoint first lets you analyze why his arguments make sense to him and you can begin to support or dismiss them based on practical experience.
     
  27. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

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    I don't think it is a bad idea once a year at certain grade levels but I think giving a sit down standardized test to a three year old is CRAZY...... I think that is going a little to far....

    I know one thing here that is not the best is that we don't have a standardized you teach this at this point in the year etc. Everyone can use their own style etc but they can still teach the third grade plants, then animals, than human bodies. (This is totally an example). Our mobility is quite high and a lot of our kids miss out because they may have done plants 4 times at 4 differnet schools but have never done anything else.
     
  28. Giggles1100

    Giggles1100 Comrade

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    Ihave a standardize testing question. Just drawing from my memory of being school, did it ever seem like to you, that your teachers were teaching strictly stuff that would be on your standardized tests? I mean did they back inteh 70's and 80"s I remember taking them, but it was never made that big of a deal and the way I see teachers teach teh tests now, it is boring and they make a big deal abiut it, were teachers back then better at teaching it so it was interesting or was it just not that big of a deal back then?
     
  29. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

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    I think it just wasn't as big of a deal. The NCLB act has upped the meaning of the tests to mean more than they once did. I went to private school but I don't remember hearing about the FCAT constantly growing up (and I watched the news daily). Now in Florida they changed the entire calendar to squeze in a bit more time for the FCATS...
     
  30. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Without getting too involved...I watched the episode earlier this year and felt he made many valid points.
     
  31. Ms.Jasztal

    Ms.Jasztal Maven

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    It all appalls and disgusts me very much that someone who has never worked a day in the classroom is criticizing us. I especially fancy the "clock in, clock out" remark referred to earlier in this thread. I feel like I never have a break because I am working my absolute hardest to have my students work to their potential every single day. I'm sorry. I never saw the program and honestly would have been flaming up inside if I had.

    Hopefully he was objective to a point... I don't know... and if someone feels he made valid points, maybe he did. I don't know.
     
  32. Ms.Jasztal

    Ms.Jasztal Maven

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    I agree with you there.

    I feel bad for my kids. I've heard it out of their own mouths this year, "Who was retained (in third)?" "I hope I pass this year." "What did you get last year in reading and math?"

    Then the teachers- "They're supposed to be top dog." "Those level 1's will not reach that standard."

    I never grew up with that pressure. NEVER. And I turned out SMART. In that sense, society is hurting our kids.
     
  33. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    The stakes weren't anything like as high in most places, and preparation was essentially unknown. I can remember going to Mr.s Thornton's class one day in third grade - we were in one of the few temporary buildings that ever darkened that campus, before the new school opened - and discovering that that morning's activity was taking the Iowa Test of Basic Skills (which it just dawned on me is the test parodied in Testing Miss Malarkey). Bang, just like that.

    From where I sit - and it's safe to say I think about and do a lot about test preparation - teaching to the test is very low on the list of effective ways to prepare. Mind you, I think kids are entitled to know the format of what they're up against and they're entitled to some help in figuring out how to cope with it.

    More to the point, there are strategies in thinking, reading, learning, and expression that can be very helpful in managing test questions - but these are strategies that have many uses far beyond the test situation, and they need to be taught that way so that students are less likely to lose them once the test's done for the year.
     
  34. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Here in Ontario our students are tested in Math, Reading and Writing in May/June of grades 3 and 6, in Math in grade 9 and must pass a Grade 10 Literacy test in order to graduated high school. The results of this testing is received by the schools and parents in the fall and the data is used primarily to drive instruction (for example, we may notice that our students are weakest in writing and will then, school-wide, determine how to improve our writing programs). The data also identifies schools which may require additional funding or services because of the low scores of the students. The testing has no impact on a student's marks, although the good teaching practices that we put into place certainly make our students better.
     
  35. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

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    There's a difference between the standardized testing we took in school and the high stakes standardized testing the kids take today. Today they fal the grade if they don't pass. If class scores are low the teacher is called on the carpet, if the school's scores don't grow each year the school goes into corrective action. The pressures that come with state testing are a hundred times worse than it was. Now you have teachers who are simply teaching the test or doing questionable tactics to make sure their scores are high enough.
     
  36. MissFroggy

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    it makes sense

    I taught in the South Bronx, in what was labeled as "the most violent elementry school in NY" I now teach in a private school. If more people could choose their schools, do you think anyone would WANT their child going to the most violent school in NY???? If people had more choice, they COULD pick the schools that are right for their child. Inner city schools in particular, face many challenges like poverty, ELL, parenting issues, etc, etc, etc. But there are also issues of top-heavy administration, bad teachers, overcrowded schools, terrible facilities-- those are all things that it is up to the system to correct, and has nothing to do with the children or their families.


    Seeing the difference in the children and the way they learn at a private school, compared to the schools in the Bronx, I wouldn't want my kids to go to those schools! I am very liberal generally, but on this issue I am finding myself conservative. After teaching in the S. Bronx, I believe no child should have to learn in that environment or with some of the teachers that teach in those schools!

    I really think school choice would create the competition to make it impossible one day to have violent schools, or failing schools or schools that don't meet kids' needs! Our children do not do as well as those in other countries, and we are one of the richest nations with the best resources. It doesn't make sense, and something should be done!
     
  37. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    I'm not disagreeing with you, but we need to remember that some students can't be filmed or photographed. I have one this year in my class. It's not due to religious reasons, it's a safety issue. A way to get around that: Don't film those classes, and let the administration view all tape (just in case one of those students is in it). Then it can be altered as needed.
     
  38. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    I'm laughing right now because it's Labor Day, and guess where I am right now.
     
  39. teacher333

    teacher333 Devotee

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    I am sure this Labor Day John Stossel is enjoying Labor Day with his family while I am here, on the other hand, the day before we go back, typing my final class lists for both my class and the after school program I direct, as well as getting the final things together for what I need my first day!! (taking a lunch break right now!)
     
  40. elem_teacher3

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    I have to remind you all. We chose this profession. We didn't have to become teachers...we wanted to. It is a salary job...and when you are salary you clock in many more hours than a regular 40 hr/week job. I know I put in a lot of hours for my job...but I don't begrudge it because I want to be the best teacher I can be for my kids.
     
  41. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    I don't think we need to be reminded. I'm not complaining about being here. I could have chose to stay home today, instead of doing extra things for my kids (This is, by the way, our 3rd week of school).
    It just irks me when people start saying things like "Oh it must be nice to work 7 hours.", or "It must be nice to have 3 months off during the summer." In reality, I'm up here at least 10 hours each school day. I'm also up here at least one day on the weekends and take lots of stuff home.
    Some also don't understand that we, as teachers, are required to have more continuing education credits than most other professions.
    Teachers are like anyone else. If you start attacking them, they're going to stick up for themselves.
     

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