Students Harassed Me

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Ms.Holyoke, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    Apr 10, 2019

    I was walking to my car after school yesterday when I passed a group of students. I teach some of them and a few I didn’t recognize. I heard one say, “it’s ms.xxx” I said hi and walked away. As I walked away, I heard a kid yelling “F*** you, Ms.XXX” and “b****.” It was crazy. I just walked away because I knew the kid or kids would run away if I tried to approach them. I am pretty sure the kid yelling was not one that I teach. I wrote it up as a document report and my VP emailed and asked if I remembered more names because she wants to follow up with the kids. Another teacher saw the same group and recognized another kid. I am still shocked that this happened, especially since I teach younger kids.
     
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  3. Joyful!

    Joyful! Habitué

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    Apr 10, 2019

    I'm sorry that happened to you.
     
  4. ChildWhisperer

    ChildWhisperer Groupie

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    Sorry that happened to you.
    That's normal at my school.
    Imagine a 1st grader punching you in the stomach and calling you B!+¢#, but all you do is sigh and call the office because it's not as bad the 4th grader bringing in her mom's used needle and stabbing you with it.
     
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  5. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    Oh good gravy! The things teachers have to deal with...
    I'm sorry that happened as well. It is fortunate your VP is willing to address it however he/she is able.
     
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  6. whizkid

    whizkid Cohort

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    Wow
     
  7. ChildWhisperer

    ChildWhisperer Groupie

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    Right?! Luckily, I was only punched and called B, it was another teacher that got stabbed by a student. She never came back / finished the year.
     
  8. rpan

    rpan Cohort

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    Wow! I can’t believe the stories I’m hearing. The worst I’ve had was a student saying “Fxxx off” under their breath or as they are being sent out the room. I’ve never had a kid cuss at me to my face and I teach 15 year olds.
    I’m so sorry that happened to you. It’s hard not to take it personally but don’t. You’ve done your job and that’s about all you can control.
     
  9. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    It is shocking to me that this seems to be the status quo these days. I'm so sorry you had to face this rude and hateful behavior and that it was directed at you. What a sad state we are in. Glad I am retired.
     
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  10. alp123

    alp123 Companion

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    That's horrible. I'm so sorry. I'm just waiting for one of my 2nd graders to hit me......they've done just about everything else. :(
     
  11. ms.irene

    ms.irene Connoisseur

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    Thankfully, this is not the norm everywhere -- so much depends on the school culture and community, and admin's commitment to upholding discipline. I have taught at schools where it is the norm, and I have experienced similar verbal abuse (never physical, though!). I have been at my school for five years now, and have never once felt as if I was being harassed by students. There are still such places out there, although it does seem they are becoming rarer...
     
  12. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    They are becoming rarer? I'm happy but surprised to hear that. I worked in such a protected, small environment that a student saying 'shut up' was extreme!
     
  13. MaleTeacher

    MaleTeacher Rookie

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    I'm sorry you had to go through this. I teach second graders at a Prek-8 school, and these situations are normal here. For some reason, the older students think of themselves as gangsters and try to act like it (swearing, committing vandalism, threatening violence). I sometimes look at my kids and think about what they will be like ten years into the future. I have learned to just ignore it. This "change" seems to start in fourth grade and spirals out of control in the higher grades. Fortunately, I teach second grade so I am still able to control them.
     
  14. whizkid

    whizkid Cohort

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    Just when you think only your district is screwed up.....
     
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  15. alp123

    alp123 Companion

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    I'm going to really think about leaving the district.
     
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  16. Nicolebeason

    Nicolebeason Rookie

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    Wow, that would be inexplicably hurtful. Recently, (sorry, I teach adults who at times act worse or same as children) I had a student mocking me; telling another student I was "stupid" and that I made a lot of mistakes. (I mentioned an incorrect page number); she just would not stop and the negativity was filling the room like toxic gas. Also, her being an adult (not public school or course) I had to think carefully and quickly about how to address this. She did not like being called out of the room; but either way- it was going to be awkward for the both of us. It was so bad that others were uncomfortable so I did not feel waiting after class would be appropriate. She continued to go off on me in the room I walked her too. No matter how I tried to calm her as in, "Listen, if there is anything I am saying to you that you find offensive; please let me know as that is never my intention". Geez, I don't know. Since she was/is an adult who is in a probationary program- I felt a bit of anger in me quell up and really had to reign it in. Trying to keep the emotion out of it. We know it is about the other person acting out - but yea, still doesn't feel good to hear that. Really sorry you had to hear that what I refer to as "verbal violence". What I failed to mention is that a group of students conducting themselves that way makes me shudder.
     
  17. Reality Check

    Reality Check Habitué

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    Apr 29, 2019

    My entire career was spent in an environment like many here have described. I was hit more times than I can count, had a lit M-80 thrown at me, regularly cursed out, saw a computer teacher take a punch square in the face - sustain a broken jaw - he later told us the principal would charge him (the teacher) with job abandonment if he missed more than 3 days for medical treatment, and other things too numerous to mention. The worst was when there was a drive-by shooting at dismissal one afternoon (I observed it from a 3rd floor office and saw the kids diving behind the bushes) and after security called out over the radio "Shots fired! Shots fired! Call 9-1-1!," the principal burst on the radio countering, "Oh, you mean that car back-firing? No one call 9-1-1!" The principal's sole interest was in not attracting the attention of the central office or getting bad publicity in the newspaper.

    Unfortunately, I see it spreading around here, further and further out from the city.

    Leadership/Administrators are focused soley on the enforcing the "C.Y.A" policy for themselves and decline to perform their actual job of supporting the staff. They've even gone to the extent of intenionally giving poor observation scores (under that "Danielson Model") to excellent teachers because they've written up (what I consider) justifiable disciplinary reports in an effort to maintain some sense of classroom managment.
     
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  18. Nicolebeason

    Nicolebeason Rookie

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    No kidding; It's look the other way these days - Excuse me teach while I cause this person Bodily Injury.
     
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  19. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    This is why I don’t like working in certain neighborhoods. When he gets to that point, you almost want to get an escort to walk you to your car.

    Could be some pre-teen double dare, gang initiation garbage. Either way it’s a threat and threats need to be addressed. Next time I would pull out my phone to say “oh I’m recording this”, but don’t be so bold if you don’t have a back up plan. Some of them are very, very bad decision makers and they might snatch the phone out your hand. I will just slowly start backing up and walk back to the building. Don’t respond. Have somebody walk with you next time I’ll park closer to the door if possible.
     
  20. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Is this the new norm in public schools? My goodness. If a student struck me in the mouth with the intention to cause me bodily harm, then they would find my fist colliding with their face faster than they could say mathematics. You are allowed to defend yourself and I would absolutely not tolerate being hit by a student or anyone else.
     
  21. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Nope, not the norm if you find a school in a community that values education.

    If that ever happened to me, while I wouldn't ever risk hitting a student back, I would surely litigate the matter.
     
  22. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    The law is on your side. So long as you don’t use excessive force you can respond in kind.
     
  23. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    You’re not allowed to defend yourself, everybody sees you on camera you’re out of a job and your license is revoked. They report you to the state department of children and family services, (DCFS) and you can’t get a job anywhere.

    That’s why I’m sitting on my bed right now. I’d rather be at home and unemployed and have some kid run around the school hitting and kicking in fighting and hitting me.

    I’m not dealing with it.
     
  24. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Not correct.

    Self Defense
    Teachers may use physical force if absolutely necessary. The State of Delaware, for example, notes that teachers may use ‘reasonable and necessary force’ to defend themselves or others, to remove a weapon from a student’s possession, or to subdue a fight. In 2013 self-defense classes became mandatory for school administrators from the Springfield, Mass., school district. The police department teaches the classes and encourages teachers and other school employees to attend. In South Dakota, teachers in rural areas can even carry weapons to school, but they must complete law-enforcement training first.”

    https://www.theclassroom.com/teachers-rights-against-student-assault-8621392.html

    “The Education Code recognizes that teachers (and other certificated employees) have a responsibility to intervene physically in order to protect students. A teacher may use reasonable force in order to quell a disturbance, protect others, in self-defense or to take possession of weapons.

    Education Code section 44807 provides that “Every teacher in the public schools shall hold pupils to a strict account for their conduct on the way to and from school, on the playgrounds, or during recess. A teacher, vice principal, principal, or any other certificated employee of a school district, shall not be subject to criminal prosecution or criminal penalties for the exercise, during the performance of his duties, of the same degree of physical control over a pupil that a parent would be legally privileged to exercise but which in no event shall exceed the amount of physical control reasonably necessary to maintain order, protect property, or protect the health and safety of pupils, or to maintain proper and appropriate conditions conducive to learning.” The provisions of this section are in addition to and do not supersede the provisions of Section 49000. (Emphasis added.)

    Education Code section 49001(a) provides in pertinent part, “An amount of force that is reasonable and necessary for a person employed by or engaged in a public school to quell a disturbance threatening physical injury to persons or damage to property, for purposes of self-defense, or to obtain possession of weapons or other dangerous objects within the control of the pupil, is not and shall not be construed to be corporal punishment within the meaning and intent of this section.(Emphasis added.)”

    https://www.aalrr.com/EdLawConnectBlog/when-may-teachers-use-reasonable-force
     
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  25. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    This situation is very different and very sticky and preschool and Head Start. The main issue is Department of children and family services will always be on the side of the child. Even if you’re on camera and they see the child has attacked you. The teacher is supposed to help the child calm down redirect, and remove the child without harming them. But this is where the story ends. Despite all your efforts, you can’t get a director to meet with the parent to get this child removed because they need the children to keep their enrollment, to keep their funding. So no matter what you do they will bring this kid back in your classroom, and you and everyone else remains being a punching bag.
     
  26. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    I feel so stupid, I just now realized we are talking about elementary children or younger. I teach High School students and so I was assuming we were talking about students in that age range. Whoops.
     
  27. whizkid

    whizkid Cohort

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    And the sad part is that spineless administrators make renewals easy for you as long as you're willing to put up with it and not involve them.
     
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  28. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    It’s OK don’t worry about it. It’s just that I’ve been dealing with it for so long I wish I had some answers. Thanks for just being there.
     
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  29. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Exactly! They want to tell you to come up with some strategies and stop calling them, and you can’t call the parents. You can get all the stickers, little treats, throw in extra computer time you want it ...doesn’t matter. I mean what else can you do you have a child who is constantly, hitting and hurting, doing things tripping all the kids all day long???
     
  30. fallenshadow

    fallenshadow Rookie

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    removed
     
  31. whizkid

    whizkid Cohort

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    Nothing...but write them up. But hey, administration's door is always open...
    .........for gossip about another employee! Ahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!
     
  32. Reality Check

    Reality Check Habitué

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    Actually, you should probably only defend yourself if you're prepared to leave that job.
    A former colleague was being assaulted by a student and he pushed the kid (who had a lengthy disciplinary record) backward to avoid further contact. The administration, following bold talk about protecting the teachers, put the kid back in his class after a 1/2 day in-school suspension and told the teacher, "Our video cameras show you as the instigator." That was a lie. He quit the very day he was told that, filed suit against the school and won. They were just hoping that the talk of "video evidence" against him would dissuade him from taking legal action.

    Essentially, in many areas, teachers have become human punching bags. As one teacher mentioned to me, "Ours is the only profession where recipients of our service dare you to do your job."
     
  33. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    The law supersedes any administrator. Just because an admin frowns on a teacher defending themselves does not mean that a teacher cannot do so.
     
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  34. whizkid

    whizkid Cohort

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    I mean, just think about that. How horrible is that?
     
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  35. whizkid

    whizkid Cohort

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    But administration is here to support you! Lmao, what a crock of sh**.
     
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  36. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Sigh...I'm going to try again. But on the next job I take, I will make it crystal clear: I am nobody's punching bag. I have the right to work in a safe and sane environment. And I would want the same for my child and her child too.

    I remember coming into a day care classroom to pick her up. After 4, they tend to mix the age groups. Never understood that, but that's another post. I didn't see her. But I noticed some 9-10 year old laughing and talking to somebody under the table. Yep, that was my 5 yr. old child hiding under the table, being teased by this kid, and nobody was watching or there to help. I walked up and told that boy to leave her alone.

    No telling how long she had been there.

    Having cameras in the room mean nothing if nobody will step in and stop the hate and bullying.
     
  37. whizkid

    whizkid Cohort

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    Oh yea, but then you'll be the one that's wrong. Smh
     
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  38. whizkid

    whizkid Cohort

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    Administrators, at least the ones I work under, are fine with just about anything as long as they're not the ones taking the blame.
     
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  39. Reality Check

    Reality Check Habitué

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    The union said that by being members of a collective bargaining unit, we agreed to vacate the right of independent/outside legal representation, we would have to go through them. Therefore, if we went by the law and filed assault charges against the wishes of the school, the administrators would see to it that our observations/evaluations would magically become "unsatisfactory" ratings to build a case for termination. The union in turn would tell us the teacher ratings begin and end with the school district. We were forbidden by that same collective bargaining agreement from obtaining outside counsel to legally protect ourselves from unjust termination. I only saw it come up with two teachers in my 30+ year career, but it demonstrated that the schools/school districts are well prepared to work around any law.
     
  40. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    In CA, that would be grounds for a lawsuit against the school district because the admin’s actions would be retaliatory in nature. Many employers have tried that before — that being that an employee magically started “underperforming” after they threaten their employer and then successfully win their case on those grounds. The problem, in your case, is that the teacher’s record (presumably) clearly indicates that they were deemed effective or highly effective for YEARS by the SAME administrators and so their “underperforming” turnaround wouldn’t hold any weight. The same thing would be done if I filed the assault charges and then started getting dinged immediately thereafter — the courts would consider the time frame and my record when making their determination.

    That wouldn’t hold up in court. Sorry.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  41. Reality Check

    Reality Check Habitué

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    You're right, it wouldn't hold up in court.
    But under the union rules, you'd never get to court.
     

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