Student gone mad PHYSICAL

Discussion in 'First Grade' started by cheer, Oct 13, 2008.

  1. cheer

    cheer Comrade

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    Oct 13, 2008

    Today was the first day in my 7 years of teaching that I wanted to cry! I have a student that has major anger issues. He has been in and out of trouble from the age of 4. Well today he went off on my assistant, principle, and myself. It was a two part episode. One at recess and one about 30 min. later. When I say went off I mean kicking, hitting, scratching (drawing blood) and punching all of us. This student was just suspended a week ago for hitting a student. My question is this... What do other schools do when a student crosses the line like he did today? I am at a small private school with no resources for students with mental issues. (clinical issues) He has been suspended for a day!! I cant believe it, I thought the school would do more than that since this is not his first, third, but fifth physical confrontation. I am NOT dealing with this all year. I refuse to be a child's punching bag. Now I have to dig really deep to muster up the ability to let it all go and move on. This will take serious soul searching. If this happen at your school what would be done?
     
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  3. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    Oct 13, 2008

    First of all hugs to you. I feel like I can relate. I had a student like this my first year. Very emotional, got upset very easy & would "act out." Well, he acted out one day because he was mad at me & hit me in the side of the stomach, but I was pg at the time...SCARED ME TO DEATH!!! I actually went to the hospital to get things checked out!!! (Baby & were fine, but just shaken up). I don't really remember what happened I think he was suspended for a day or 2, but the other 1st grade teacher said she would have him moved into his room!!!

    I'm not sure what you could do. Could you speak to some of the "veteran" teachers. I'm not sure how the private schools work.

    Anyway just wanted to let you know been there & I feel so bad for you to have to "put up" with this!!!

    Hubby & I did call the police just so it was on file. We never pressed charges, but hubby wanted it documented!!!
     
  4. cheer

    cheer Comrade

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    What age group? First? I wonder if I should do that? Should I take a photo of my scratches?
     
  5. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Oct 13, 2008

    If my school suspened students for every fist fight we'd never have any students. As it is there are a good 15-20 students suspended every single day (out of 300), but I work with older kids. First grade is still pretty little for this type of stuff, though it does happen. I don't know what advise to give you except to tell you to hang in there, and document EVERYTHING.
     
  6. trayums

    trayums Enthusiast

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    Wow- I am sooo sorry that this happened. Pretty unbelievable. I hope that you do document this. I think the pictures are a REALLY good idea. Write up what happened as well so that if it happens again you have documentation.
     
  7. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    Oct 13, 2008

    This is a private school and the principal is letting him stay there? I'm sorry. I think I'd be sending him on his merry way. Let the public school deal with him and then he can get the SPE services he needs. If the principal lets him come back, file charges. First grade or not, something needs to be done.

    I know when I have a violent SPE preschooler, I'm stuck with them because I'm in a public system and they have that right to be there. You are PRIVATE. You should not have to be stuck with this child just because mommy and daddy pay for him to come there. I know private school teachers more than likely don't get paid as much as public teachers so I KNOW YOU DON'T GET paid enough to put up with that crap for sure. I don't get paid enough for it but I have to put up with it the best I can.

    I hope something is done to help you in this situation.
     
  8. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    Yup... mine was 1st grade. He also threw scissors in the classroom a few weeks before this. I would make sure you document it. IF that means take pix, I would.

    When we talked to the police it wasn't anything more than paper work they had on file. They didn't do anything else with it, but hubby said for our own safety that it be there in case there other situations that it can be shown he has had complaints before. I know this sounds horrible for a 1st grader, but we did it & I don't regret it. It only took about 15 mins. The officer came right to our house. We did let my principal know that we took this action.
     
  9. 1stesl

    1stesl Rookie

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    Oct 13, 2008

    I had a student in kindergarten one time that would destroy everything he could when he got mad. He would tell us satan told him to do it. It would be something simple that would set him off...let me asking him to write his name on his paper. He threw scissors, books, chairs, yelled, screamed, hitted, kicked. We had a bathroom in our class one time he locked himself in and banged the toliet seat up and down so hard that he broke part of the commode. I kept documentation on everything. That year I had a phone in my room, so I could pick it up and dial the office....it got to where I didn't even have to say what was wrong, they automatically knew to get out there quick. Many times, when he was in a bad throwing rage, I'd line the other students up and we'd wait outside on the ramp...I was in a portable building that year.
     
  10. maroki

    maroki Comrade

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    Oct 13, 2008

    A colleague of mine had a boy who did something very similar on his 2nd day at our school earlier this year. He had already been expelled from a neighboring district for violence towards his teacher and classmates. He threw an uncontrollable fit and the principal had to be called in. He attacked my principal; he bit, kicked, scratched her, and drew blood. He was emergency expelled and isn't able to come back to our school (I'm not sure if he is allowed elsewhere in the district). I know my principal's bosses made her visit a clinic, document her injuries, get a series of follow up shots, etc. as a result of the incident.
     
  11. EMonkey

    EMonkey Connoisseur

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    Oct 13, 2008

    It is not ok at any grade level for a child to hit or hurt a teacher, aide, or the principal. Contact the police.
     
  12. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Oh my goodness... that must have been some year! Honestly, how did the school expect any learning to take place with this child in the class?

    The worst I had, so far (knock on wood) was a little, very smart girl, in my kinder class who would scream at the top of her lungs (very powerful ones) and cry to the point she would dry heave. She never hurt me or any of the students physically, but she was VERY mean to them (verbally).
     
  13. 1stesl

    1stesl Rookie

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    It was a rough school overall....I moved from a small town to the big city that year...talk about an eye opening year! I called home in tears alot. Luckily I have a great support system as far as family and friends, or I wouldn't have made it. The child was suspended numerous times, sad thing was he came to school with belt marks across his face....then when cps got involved the mom got really ugly about things.
     
  14. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Oct 13, 2008

    Okay, I'm gonna get on my soapbox here....

    WHY do we see these things in such small kids and NOT investigate the reasons behind such violent behavior? Kids do not pop out of the womb violent and uncontrollable. There is always a reason for such behavior. While in many cases, the root cause is abuse, in many other cases it is not. Perhaps the child comes from a family that's lost it's breadwinner or its livelyhood. Maybe he comes from a household headed by an overwhelmed single parent? Maybe the child has had to move multiple times because of poverty/eviction. Why do we not (as a society) investigate these situations and attempt to provide services that could help the child?

    In the OP's situation, beyond documenting and possibly calling the police, why is the school counselor not contacting the parents to help get this child services. This is a private school...if the parents have enough money for tuition, they ought to have money for counseling for their child. A child in this situation would be better served if he was given the tools to get his anger under control than have money spent on school tuition. All that education will mean nothing if he's in jail in 15 years.

    Okay...off my :soapbox: now.
     
  15. cheer

    cheer Comrade

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    Oct 14, 2008

    he was getting help

    He did go to a private dr. for his anger but it stopped when he went to kindergarten. He did have trouble there but they were able to give him person who acted as his shadow. We do not have the funding for that. I AGREE he needs help but our small school of 80 kids does not have the resources needed to help him. I am not saying throw him away and thats that, I would like to see him return to the Dr. and go to a specialized school where he can get the help. He does have a bad back ground and that is why he is so emotionally messed up. I am just not sure he nor I can continue down this path with no intervention. Thank you everyone for all your kind and helpful words. This has really shaken me up. I hope I get over it by Wed. when he returns.
     
  16. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Oct 14, 2008

    Cheer...my vent wasn't directed at you in particular, it was directed at society in general. You must understand that I see this sort of thing all the time: I work in the inner city and my parents take in high risk foster kids, so I get it from two different places. I can report until I'm blue in the face, and the powers that be choose not to act. By the time my mom gets them they usually have a juvie record 3 inches thick. Why does it take that long for them to get the help they need? Why did it wait until it got that bad? Teachers can only do so much...it's the rest of society that's dropped the ball.
     
  17. pwhatley

    pwhatley Maven

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    Oct 16, 2008

    I think I'm gonna get a t-shirt with that emblazoned across the front.

    Seriously though, I'm teaching 1st grade in a very urban EXTREMELY poverty-ridden neighborhood (almost 100% of our students are on free lunch). Although I wasn't informed of this prior to getting hired, the school at which I teach is (1) a Reading First School, (2) a Title 1 school, and (3) in its fourth year as Academically Unacceptable. We (the teachers) do not have the support (administratively, parentally, or curriculum-ly (new word)) we need to bring our students up from the mire in which they are being raised. That's not to say that it's impossible, or that we don't work our tails off, etc. It is exhausting.

    This week has been particularly so:
    Monday one of my 1st graders hit me and threw about 6 chairs. He is out of school pending a hearing at the school board office. The reason he lashed out? I lowered his conduct grade to a C. The week before he "thought the books were bad books" (our brand new Storytown reading books!), so he tore pages out of TWO (1/2 day ISS for 3 days).
    Tuesday another boy decided that throwing chairs looked like fun, so he decided to do it as well. In addition, he was running and jumping all over the classroom, climbing the lockers, grabbing other students' things, etc. Security came and got him, but he returned to the classroom an hour later and had been assessed no consequences for his actions.
    Yesterday the same student pulled the same stuff - all day. I called Mom's number three times, Dad's twice, Grandma's twice, and his aunt's number 3 times and got no one. I have decided to try NOT to send him to the office because he likes it & feels like the "big man on campus" when he comes back to the class. Another boy decided it would be fun to imitate the first, and, well, you can imagine (maybe).
    Today the same student started the day exactly the same. By 9:15 (school lets in at 8), he had a D in conduct. When I mentioned calling his mom, he literally said, "So? Go ahead!" So I did. Luckily I got mom the first time, and she was very upset. It's the strangest thing... she said that she sent her son to his Daddy's house "to learn his lesson." I'm pretty sure I know what she meant (although he coudl sit down fine today). For some reason, this comment has me thinking that maybe her son doesn't think women should have power over him. I mean if Dad is the only one who ever disciplines him.... What do you think?

    I did get lucky a couple of times today, though. Two different moms showed up to observe (I have no problem with this). Both had sons who have been disciplinary handfuls, especially this past week. I said hello to them and kept teaching (they came at different times). BOTH boys seemed to forget mom was there, and started acting foolishly again. THANK YOU, GOD! The moms were VERY upset at their sons and how they were behaving - and IT WASN'T MY FAULT!!!!!!!!!!! (We took the 1st grade to a local festival this past Friday, and someone made an anonymous call to the school and said that I was hurting my students at the festival. Can you imagine? I'm the one that was black and blue Friday night from being pulled hither and yon!

    Sorry for the hijack. It was good to vent and to know that I am not the only teacher with challenging students. :dizzy:
     
  18. Mommateach

    Mommateach Rookie

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    Oct 17, 2008

    Wow! (((HUGS))) to all of you who deal with all of this on a regular basis.

    When my son was in kindergarten there was a boy who slapped the teacher across the face. It scared my son so much that he started to sob. The teacher told me at the end of the day that my son was shaken up by a boy slapping her. I asked her if she was alright and she said yes. I don't know if she ever reported it to the police. I do know that boy would always be sent to the special ed. teacher in a different room when he wasn't behaving properly in the regular classroom.

    Because of many circumstances at that particular school, my son no longer attends there.
     
  19. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

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    Oh my gosh! These stories are so scary...I don't know how you can all handle it. If I were physically harmed I would file a police report. I wouldn't even consult with my principal-it's your right as a human being to protect your body from physical harm.
     
  20. wldywall

    wldywall Connoisseur

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    Why hasn't this child been evaluated? Obviously the child has emotional issues and likely qualifies for special services as emotionaly impared. He needs help, this kid isn't evil, he has issues. I have two children in my home that have had issues like this before. We had them evaluated, set up an IEP, got them outside help and guess what, these incidents have either disappeared or they have been reduced significantly. Getting the kid help can make a difference, jail will not
     
  21. RainStorm

    RainStorm Phenom

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    Oct 17, 2008

    Cheer,
    Several years ago, I had a "new" student added in the middle of the year. He was violent, had mental health issues, was oppositional, a compulsive liar and thief, etc. etc. etc. He had already been thrown out of 2 private schools, (and a large string of public schools before that) and since we were public, we HAD to take him. Of course, I was not told he had been thrown out of a school. I was not told he had any "issues." His mother insisted "there was nothing wrong with her son, and he had NEVER had any problems before coming to our school! (Once his paperwork finally caught up with him, we got the real story -- managed to contact the biological father who had left the family because his wife refused to get any treatment for the son, and he couldnt' stand watching the violence to his other children every day -- surprise surprise, he got custody of all the siblings!)

    I won't go into the details, but several times he was violent in class, both with other students and with me. His mother was in total denial (it is the school, the teachers, what he ate for lunch, etc. etc. that is at fault -- there is nothing wrong with MY baby!). His stepfather saw the problem for what it was, and was trying to figure a way out of the "family" he inherited when he married.

    Cheer, people will act as if you should find the answers, "make it work".. fix things... etc. etc... because you are "the teacher..."

    I have one thing to say to this.... Bull crap!!!

    First, as a regular education teacher, we are not trained to deal with these extreme situations. It is unfair to the child to keep him in a classroom situation where he has no chance for success.

    Suspensions don't work in situations like this. Punishing a child for a mental health issue is like punishing an epileptic for having a seisure, or a blind person for not being able to differentiate between red and pink -- it is just ridiculous.

    He needs a specific medical or special education setting, a specific behavior management plan by trained specialists, and an environment where he (and others) will be safe -- and a general education classroom is not the appropriate setting.

    That being said, you must be militant! Go to your prinicpal. Calmly but with strength let him know that you will NOT accept this child back into your classroom. If he insists, stand strong. He isn't the one who will have to deal with the situation day-in and day-out.

    Let your adminstrator know that you care too much about this child to watch him suffer through these violent outbursts without getting the care he needs in the proper setting. That care is not available in your school. That is not something you can change. Your administrator must insist that the parents find the appropriate setting for this child (or at the very least, remove the child from this obviously unacceptable setting.)

    As teachers, we want to be kind, fix all the problems for our kids, make everything "better"...be all things to all children -- but we have to accept sometimes we aren't the best choice for a specific child or situation.

    If you stand strong, your principal will either put the child in another room (which is the wimpy thing to do, but not your problem...) or insist that the child's parents find a more appropriate setting for the child.

    Good luck!
     
  22. TeacherC

    TeacherC Connoisseur

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    Wow cheer, I can't believe that more wasn't done!
    Thankfully, I have never had such a violent child in my room (knock on wood), but I do know that there have been many at my school. When one acts out by hitting a teacher or administrator to the point of drawing blood, the cops or the ambulance is called to escort the child to the parent- usually these children are "runners"- they will leave the school or threaten to throw themselves over the balcony in the gym, etc. I also know that if any teacher is given any bruises by the student, they have to have it documented by the hospital- pictures, a physical work up, etc. It is a public school, but the documentation is SO important.
    I agree with many of the PP...I would say to get him out of the private school, obviously you don't have the resources to deal with him...which also brings us to the "getting to the root of the problem"....he probably needs some serious counseling, and someone at a public school could help with that.
    GOOD LUCK!! I hope that you can at least get him out of your room so you keep your sanity for the rest of the year!:hugs:
     
  23. Canadian Gal

    Canadian Gal Habitué

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    Oct 17, 2008

    Call the police. Public or Private school this is assault, and it is a crime. Calling the police will force the parents to take action, because Social Services will immediately be involved (at least, they would be in Canada), and it also provides additional support documents for you.
     
  24. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Oct 17, 2008

    Well said, rainstorm.
     
  25. wldywall

    wldywall Connoisseur

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    I hate to tell you this, it is likely not to lead to any sort of real help. Oh sure he will end up in a juvinle facility where they will have "help" (i.e. a counselor that is over loaded and is only available occasionaly) the social work services only get involved to be sure there is a probation officer watching him. They usually don't get the kind of things that you would expect, like an honest and through mental evaluation (if there is one, it is usualy geared toward placement in another type of juvinle facility) If they do find that a child has a serious problem, its drugs baby! I am not talking light weight drugs to start, drug them into a stupor with anti-psychotics that are NOT approved for use in children and are SPECIFICALLY labeled by the FDA as dangerous for teenagers, but they can do it, because they are the system out to protect kids. To hell with the horrible side effects (can we say sudden suicidal behavior? Kidney damage? Seizures? Possible multiple organ failure? those are side effects of one drug my nephew was put on....another drug often causes a skin rash in children that has a 25% of death, and it ONLY happens in kids)

    The system does not work for these kids of kids when they get arrested. It usually damns them to a life of repeated jail stints, drug abuse (to self-medicate) and a life that likely does not have a bright future.

    My nephew went through this scenario just last year, he is home now and thriving. Why? We put our foot down and said no to the government, that we were going to take care of him and we didn't need their "help" anymore.

    If this child is having issues like this and the parents have not gotten him treatment that is neglect, call DHS, that will get the child more help than taking revenge and getting him put in jail like that 12 year old in Florida. Of course DHS doesn't always help any more than the court system, but they are more likely to be able to point the family in the right direction.

    I can see the situation outside of being a teacher, outside if the risk that comes with working with kids that have issues (all kids have issues) I see it as a family member who went through the system, the only good the system did is getting our nephew here so we could get him help. Help the child and do what is right, if the child is not getting care and obviously is being neglected. As a mandatory reporter, do what is right.
     
  26. teacherstudent1

    teacherstudent1 Companion

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    Oct 17, 2008

    This child is eligible for testing at his home school district. Anyone can make a referral on a child suspected of having a disability. Try to enlist the parent(s) support, or make the referral yourself.

    Behaviors that you describe can be attributable to a wide range of conditions: physical, psychological, and/or environmental. Someone with experience with these issues needs to do a thorough case history with the parents and conduct a full evaluation, including a functional behavior assessment and information from the doctor(s) the child is seeing.

    You haven't mentioned the parents, but I'm guessing you have already had a face to face conference with them and your administrator. These behaviors need to be documented with pictures and written descriptions of the event. IF the administrator decides to allow the child to continue in your school (and that is a huge IF), there needs to be a clear understanding of what behavior will be acceptable and what actions will be taken if the child acts out again. The procedures need to be written, clear, and consistently implemented.

    I agree that a private school probably does not have the financial or personnel resources to deal with this student at this time. The best thing for all involved is to see that the student receives a comprehensive evaluation to determine what is triggering these behaviors and identify strategies to help remediate them.

    You are a teacher, not a psychologist, and certainly not a punching bag. You should not be expected to continue with this physical abuse.

    Good luck!
     
  27. bonneb

    bonneb Fanatic

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    Oct 18, 2008

    I have had a student like this, though he did not ever strike me - he was a small little guy and I am rather towering.

    He has put every teacher through the ringer since K. I got him in first. He has been violent toward other students, kicked things, thrown things, screamed, and run away.

    We are also a private school. Our P. thank God is skilled at working with kids like this. The child has come a long way, but I almost quit teaching in Oct. the year he was in my class. the child was recently suspended for a few days - can't remember what happened! His problem is clearly that he comes from a home full of violence and he is full of anger and does not know what to do with it. We have had mixed results with requiring the parents get him counseling - the two parents are not in agreement, one will take him to counseling, the other makes fun of going to counseling.

    For us, we have agreed that we want this child in the school because he would go down hill rapidly in a larger school, and the teachers here love him and express that to him, while showing him the line he must toe. But it was a hard decision. We all try to give a lot of support to whichever teacher actually has him in her classroom.

    In my opinion, you should go to your P. and tell him you can't have the child back in the classroom unless he gets documented counseling. Personally, I could not stay in a classroom where a child hit or hurt me- as I've stated before, I had to live like that growing up and I will not live like that now I am an adult and making the decisions for my life. You are completely within your rights to stand up for yourself and say no. And that child is not going to improve without some anger management techniques.

    A first grader that angry and out of control needs a psychiatrist! Not to be allowed right back into the situation as if nothing happened - that is damaging to the child and doing him no favor at all. Meet with your P., then meet with the parents and your P. SHOULD be the one to tell them the child cannot come back to school without a parent until counseling has begun. Be strong! This is not good for you and not good at all for the kiddo.
     
  28. pwhatley

    pwhatley Maven

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    Oct 18, 2008

    Well, we had the hearing for my little attacker yesterday. I don't know the outcome, except that he will not be in MY class again. He will either be moved to another teacher's class at my school, or moved to another school (his 3rd), or expelled for the rest of the school year. Upon learning that the boy kicked his former principal (as a kindergartener) (that's what got him to our school), hit me, and upon hearing my description of his daily behavior (you can practically watch him buzz with almost electric energy - he cannot sit still - he also has several rather autistic tendencies, but I only described these, I did not "diagnose" him), she turned to dad and told him flat out - "you need to get him some help," and handed dad a list of mental health providers. This is a beautiful child with an incredibly gifted mind. He definitely has self-control and anger issues, though. I have him on my prayer list, and I truly hope he gets some help - medically or otherwise.

    I also hope your situation turns out well.
     
  29. cheer

    cheer Comrade

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    Oct 19, 2008

    update on class and child

    Ok here is the update. The student who attacked everyone returned Wed. His Grandfather (who he lives with!) made him apologize and he has an appointment Monday with his counselor. He did have a couple small episodes with other children but nothing huge. The class has really lost all compassion for this child. They were all shaken up by him attacking the staff. They are becoming scared of him. He asked last week why no one would pick him to be a peer reader. I tried to talk to him about it but this was making him increasingly angry. He threw a truck and it hit a student. According to him it was an accident.The little girl that it hit didnt see it coming. I didnt see it so I talked to him about the imporance of throwing things and he lost a mark off his behavior chart. He began to cry really loud and my P came in and talked to him. I did realize that he was sitting near someone who he felt was bothering him so I moved his seat. He was happy about that. Well I will keep you all up dated. Cross your fingers that the episode that occured Monday will not happen again. If it does and he is not asked to leave, I am walking and my P knows this because I made it very clear!
     
  30. teacherstudent1

    teacherstudent1 Companion

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    Oct 19, 2008

    I would still recommend talking to the parents and suggesting that they allow the local public school to do an evaluation. The eval can happen while he is still enrolled in private school, and it may give everyone a better idea of what you are dealing with. If he does wind up with a qualifying handicapping condition, then all will be better educated when making future decisions and/or placements.

    But whether or not he is Emotionally Disturbed, Autistic, Aspergers, Oppositional Defiant, Obsessive Compulsive, ADHD, neglected, abused, or simply not "house broken," I would think it is time to get the diagnostic professionals involved, for everyone's sake.
     

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