Something I am very curious about

Discussion in 'Elementary Education' started by showmelady, Sep 4, 2015.

  1. showmelady

    showmelady Companion

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    Sep 4, 2015

    In elementary grades how much of a problem is it that the students talk back and are very defiant?

    Today I was in a second grade class, and one of the students (when told to perform a specific task) refused, and when I asked the student why the reply was (1) "I don't want to", and when I asked a second time to be sure I had heard the refusal correctly, (2) "read my lips".

    And this is by far not the first time I have ever been "sassed" by a student.

    Is this everywhere?
     
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  3. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    Sep 5, 2015

    Sometimes I think the students are imitating their parents, and more adults today seem to be just plain rude and obnoxious! There has also been some research that increased time alone with electronics (TV and video games) is decreasing social learning skills in children. I saw an increase in disrespectable behavior later in my career; I'd always remind the students that I would listen if they would speak respectfully to me.
     
  4. K-5_teacherguy

    K-5_teacherguy Companion

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    Sep 5, 2015

    I am very fortunate that I have not had any issues with defiance or backtalk in my experiences so far. I'll get the occasional eye roll, especially in 5th grade, but I haven't had to deal with any serious disrespect (yet).
     
  5. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    My principal would have been all over that. I have seen her tear a child apart for disrespecting her teachers and subs. She believes that children need to understand that adults are in charge and directions are not an option to follow.
     
  6. smithereyenes

    smithereyenes Rookie

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    Sep 10, 2015

    I think I probably would have instantly been on the phone with that child's parent. That is ridiculous.

    Unfortunately I see it more than I would like, especially in 4th grade where they seem to really bloom into their attitudes. It is a sad thing but it is becoming such commonplace that it is no longer "big deal" that it once was and is being tolerated.
     
  7. smithereyenes

    smithereyenes Rookie

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    Sep 10, 2015

    Of course I tend to have quite an attitude too so I would probably tell them that the only attitude that is allowed in that room is mine. I've also been known to say, "This isn't Burger King. You can't have it your way!" Not that I would recommend this because it is somewhat confrontational but I tend to get my point across.
     
  8. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    Sep 11, 2015

    Several other thoughts came to my mind. More and more parents tend to take the side of their child when their child misbehaves in school. What is this teaching the child?!

    Also, more and more children are coming to school under extreme psychological pressure from situations they face at home. In my later years of teaching, I'd learn of sad situations students regularly experience. And the school would always have a student or two that the teachers would need to be on alert for a possible kidnapping attempt. Not where I"ve taught, I've also heard of parents bringing GUNS to school!

    Not that it's an excuse, it's important for students to learn to be respectful, but it's no wonder some students have behavior difficulties.
     
  9. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Sep 11, 2015

    While I agree that the entire situation is ridiculous, I would not speak with a parent while I am teaching, most particularly not on a student's cell phone. I would have had the student have her mother call the office to speak with the principal about the school policy.
     
  10. Mr. Nobody

    Mr. Nobody Rookie

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    Sep 14, 2015

    Generally, I find that students in K - 2 don't "sass" unless they have an emotional or behavioral issue. During my time in the classroom, I have only had 2 students sass me in K - 2.

    The first one was not in my class, so I am not too sure about her history. However, it was a highly emotional situation (can't remember all the details, but she was in trouble for something).

    The second K - 2 student to sass me had pretty severe emotional problems.

    When I would try to redirect misbehavior (such as swinging an open pair of scissors on their finger):

    Student: I'm not even doing anything! *continues swinging scissors*

    Me: You're swinging the scissors. Please stop before you hurt someone.

    Student: I'm not doing anything! *continues to swing*

    Me: Stop swinging the scissors now or I am moving your color.

    Student: *Continues to swing* BUT I'M NOT EVEN DOING ANYTHING.

    Me: *moves color on chart and walks away*

    Student: *yelling after me while still swinging* OH MY GOD I DIDN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING! WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS TRYING TO GET ME IN TROUBLE?! I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING. GO AHEAD AND MOVE IT AGAIN! I ALREADY LOST MY VIDEO GAMES FOR TWO WEEKS. I DON'T EVEN CARE! *gets out of chair and starts walking around telling other students* MR. NOBODY IS ALWAYS MESSING WITH ME! I DIDN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING.

    Me: *says nothing, takes scissors and moves color again*

    Student: WHY DID YOU MOVE MY COLOR AGAIN!? I'M NOT EVEN DOING ANYTHING!!!! I WANT MY SCISSORS BACK!

    Me: You would not stop swinging your scissors so I took them. When you can follow directions you can have them back.

    Student: I WASN'T EVEN SWINGING MY SCISSORS!!!

    Me: :dizzy:
     
  11. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Sep 14, 2015

    I also find there is something deeper going in with most of the sassing, at least regarding the oft-offenders. The ones who only do the one time, I tend to ask "Did you get permission from your family to talk that way?" That usually quiets them, and I pray I never get an affirmative response. I have one kid who has a good family life now... but has some nasty history and has a few issues. With him, I just have to follow the behavior management plan and let him cool off when he gets upset (he sees the school counselor as well as someone outside of school and is generally a great kid).

    The times when it's not an underlying issue, I think there is a bit of a culture shift where we are going away from automatic adult authority. I suppose there are some positives to that, but in most school systems there still needs to be that aura of respect.
     
  12. showmelady

    showmelady Companion

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    Sep 28, 2015

    I have also (quite frequently) hears the "Oh my God, I wasn't even doing........whatever.

    I'd hate to hear how these kids talk at home, or how the parents talk!

    I think behavior problems like this are a matter for the whole community to be addressing! After all, when one or two students disrupt an entire class, and take away from the learning time of those students who act properly, that is a waste of the taxpayers money!

    But, when I see some of the parents coming to pick up their child, I can get a fair idea that they probably do not care a bit about behavior or taxpayers at all.
     
  13. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    Sep 29, 2015

    Yes, I see where this should be a community effort, too. I'm wondering, if a negative cultural shift is contagious, perhaps a positive cultural shift would also be contagious. I'm sure we are examples of being polite, but I'm wondering, (this might sound a little weird), but I'm wondering what would happen if we would purposefully seek out extra times during daily life to be polite, cheerful, and positive.

    For example, my community has narrow roads, and when 2 cars are traveling in opposite directions, if cars are parked on the road, one car has to pull over. A neighbor mentioned he was surprised at how many people do not offer a friendly wave to him when he pulls over for them to get through.

    But I'm also thinking, what would extra friendliness, beyond normal everyday circumstances, accomplish. What I mean is, although we are always be polite and friendly, consciously consider, do I see someone or know someone who might appreciate an extra smile today, or an extra good deed, or an extra friendly gesture.

    Perhaps eventually, maybe, the current me-first culture will start to shift toward the better. After all, life on Leave It to Beaver used to be considered normal.
     
  14. Bibliophile

    Bibliophile Companion

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    Sep 29, 2015

    Students that young and younger who have tried to talk to me like have actually not even realized that they were being rude. They heard adults talk that way and they assumed it was ok. When I calmly explained that I would not allow them to talk me that, that their talk was rude and unexceptable for a child to use with an adult, and how I like spending time with them and I know what good and funny an smart child they are so I expect them to show it all the time- they have always turned it around. Shockingly these kids thought that they were being funny or at the worst snarky and they actually needed to be told that it was rude and that I expected better of them. It's worth a shot, you might be shocked to realize that some kids don't always know when they have crossed a line, and they need a safe out when they realize it that doesn't make them get defensive and shows mutual respect.
     

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