So with all this talk of "tenure"

Discussion in 'General Education' started by DallasLady, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. DallasLady

    DallasLady Rookie

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    What exactly is it? I teach in Texas and have never heard of it. Here (and this may vary by district even within the state) you get a one year contract your first few years. After that, if you have proven yourself your principal can offer you longer term contracts (3 or 5 years, I think). If you leave your district and go to another, the process starts over. Once you are at the end of a contract, be it a 1, 3 or 5 year, your contract can be non-renewed at the district's discretion. Is tenure different than this?
     
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  3. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    In Oklahoma it is career status. It happens after the third renewal of your contract. The main thing it does is give you due process before being let go. It is a way of protecting you from being fired without cause. You can still be let go, but the school has to dot it's "i" and cross it's "t."
     
  4. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    It basically means that you get a contract for your career in that district. If you move districts, you do start over. You can be let go but must be put on an improvement plan to give you a chance to show growth.
     
  5. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    It protects due process like mrachelle said. So in your first 3 years, you can be let go for any reason. They don't even have to tell you, and it doesn't even have to be based on budget cuts. After you have tenure, they actually have to prove that there is a valid reason they're firing you (not budget cuts or "they don't like you".) They also pretty much have to offer you "a job" not your current job. My dad teaches elementary special ed. He always said if they wanted to get rid of him they'd move him to the high school :)
     
  6. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    Yes, the district can move you as they wish: schools, grades, positions, etc. But it is a guaranteed job with pay.
     
  7. Myrisophilist

    Myrisophilist Habitué

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    In Maine we have a career ladder that begins with provisional certification which lasts 2 years. During that time, a teacher can be fired for any reason without being told why. There are requirements for this period, such as creating a professional development plan and working under a mentor. At the end of 2 years, the teacher can be hired at the professional level and attains tenure. Removing a teacher from their job after this time is more difficult because it requires due process.
     
  8. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

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    Hence, you see the problem people see as inherent.
     
  9. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    It is not the guarantee of a job. It is not a job for life... Its protection against being let go without due process...it prevents seasoned teachers who are up on the salary scale from being let go to save money...Tenured teachers can, and are, let go in RIFs...and bad teachers can be let go but specific procedures must be followed.
     
  10. bandnerdtx

    bandnerdtx Aficionado

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    Thank you, Czacza! I'm so tired of hearing people say that tenured teachers are guaranteed a job. In what world? LOL. Like the OP, I'm from Texas, so we don't have tenure (or collective bargaining, etc), but you still have to work to fire a teacher who's been with the district for awhile. It's NO DIFFERENT than work in any other profession.
     
  11. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    Tenure is NOT a guaranteed job. You can't be let go without due process, but you can be let go. Few jobs, if any, come with a guarantee.
     
  12. DallasLady

    DallasLady Rookie

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    See, this is why I asked my original question. We don't have tenure here in Texas, but you still can't just fire someone without due process. I worked at a school where this one teacher would leave early (like, before the last bell while kids were still in her room) would completely disregard curriculum, all kinds of other crazy things. Yet the administrators had to jump through massive hoops to get her removed from her position. And this is with no tenure.

    We don't have tenure and I guess I just don't get what the big deal is? Why are other states freaking out about losing it?
     
  13. Hermes

    Hermes Rookie

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    Sometimes you get lucky and work for a place that looks after its employees. But it's the sort of thing that's not everywhere. I once had to listen to a former principal of mine joke about letting a teacher go simply because she saw her buying a bottle of wine in another town. And I'm not making that up.

    With tenure--or more basic, with a strong union--you could work at any school within the state and not worry if you'll get a good boss who will fire you for good reason (or better, help you before firing you); or if you'll get the boss who will fire you for something that does not pertain to your job.
     
  14. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Although your district won't terminate people without due process, not every district is or would be like that. If teachers lose the right to due process, they will be subject to inappropriate termination based on nothing more than a whim or a principal's wish to employ a relative or whatever other silly reason.

    Do a little research on charter schools without union involvement. Even just reading here, you'll hear a lot of stories about teachers being required to work 12+ hours days, supervise extra-curricular events, sponsor extra-curricular activities without additional pay, participate in after-school programs without additional pay, "at-will" employment (can be fired for any reason or no reason), and ridiculously low pay. States and districts that eliminate or severely limit collective bargaining rights will have a lot more teachers at public schools working in those sorts of conditions. I don't know about you, but that's not how I'd like to work.
     
  15. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

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    Tenure is ridiculous in some cases...I watched Waiting for Superman, and it's pretty sick what "tenured" teachers can get away with (telling kids they are going to do nothing today, because they get a paycheck whether the kids learn or not).
     
  16. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    This is so far outside of my realm of experience that I have difficult believing that it could happen.
     
  17. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

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    I know, it makes me sick. A HS student video-taped it.
     
  18. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    That seems to me more of a problem with ONE teacher than the entire tenure system.

    I once saw a cop paying solitaire on his laptop in his patrol car. I guess this means we need to eliminate unions for cops too.
     
  19. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    Last winter, it was -12 degrees outside and my friend got a flat tire. None of us knew how to change it. We were stopped at a gas station pretty much stranded at this point, and we saw a cop parked in the parking lot next door. My friend asked him if there was any way he could help us. He said he had paperwork to do and drove away. So theres two bad ones out there- the whole career must be full of lazy people who don't do their jobs! I totally agree- lets take away their unions! The sad part is...this is the logic people are following with teachers...
     
  20. Hermes

    Hermes Rookie

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    I wouldn't trust that movie at all. It's a propaganda piece set up to destroy teaching as a profession and public education, in favor of a cash-controlled education system that easily segregates students.

    But, anyway, it's ridiculous to take one jerk and say every teacher is like that. Or that that jerk doesn't deserve due process simply because he's a jerk. Even guilty criminals get lawyers and a fair trial.
     
  21. Hermes

    Hermes Rookie

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    Good Lord, I would agree with that logic, too, at -12. Snow is the enemy!
     
  22. PowerTeacher

    PowerTeacher Comrade

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    In NC unions are illegal for teachers, and there is no collective bargaining. Tenure means you have due process, but, depending on how unethical, or "political" an admin is, it is not very hard to fire even a tenured teacher.
     

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