So ready to say goodbye....

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by twilight11105, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. twilight11105

    twilight11105 Rookie

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    Jul 20, 2013

    I have been visiting this site for a few months now & have been inspired by the many people so willing to share their experiences, triumphs & tribulations. I thought I might give it a try....very briefly I'm a 2nd career teacher. I got my license in early 2011... have done subbing, LTS, briefly taught SpEd, was an IA....I just learned today that the district I have been working for over 1 1/2 has passed me up for not the 1st but 2nd time. I have been applying like crazy but getting no where :unsure: Anyway, what keeps you going in the job search after news like this????
     
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  3. panjteacher

    panjteacher Rookie

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    I am a later career changer, left a completely okay job and started in 2007, ed assist, went back and went the traditional route, racked up mucho debt and subbed. I have been turned down 4 straight summers for multiple long term sub assignments (it is a well thought of district and they can get by stringing people along). I graduated from there, served as an ed assistant for and subbed for them many many times. I also pay property tax there.
    Another district where I subbed for a few years and keep in contact and was friendly with Superintendent and principals. Never got a single interview.
    What keeps me going? My kid keeps me going and hoping a second job in the house will allow him to go to college easier than I had it. My wife, who let me go back to school and dealt with my crazy hours and my depression from not getting a job.
    Maybe I do it because I cannot look back and believe I wasted so much time, energy and money to let myself be "beat".

    I also play the lottery so maybe I just can't figure odds.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
  4. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Are you willing to relocate?
     
  5. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Some districts do not take care of their own. In other words, they don't want to hire subs, paras, student teachers, etc. because the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Or they want to keep someone in the job they're in because they're good at it.

    A friend of mine was a para for two years, and she was superb at her job. District would not hire her for a teaching position. She had to relocate and was instantly hired elsewhere!
     
  6. twilight11105

    twilight11105 Rookie

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    Jul 20, 2013

    PANJteacher- thank you for your honest & heartfelt reply; I can tell your passion for what you want to do & hope you find it soon. I appreciate your time :)
     
  7. twilight11105

    twilight11105 Rookie

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    I would but am not at a place where I could. However, I know how important of a factor that can be in finding a job.
     
  8. twilight11105

    twilight11105 Rookie

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    Ahh, makes sense. I think I will probably be doing this year what your friend did- not relocating out of state but to a different area/district. BTW, I love to read your posts & wish you all the best in your job search.
     
  9. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Jul 21, 2013

    Aww, thanks! :hugs: I wish you the best as well.

    My friend moved out of state due to her husband's job, and she actually got two offers in one week! Granted she was moving from a very poor job market to a state with a better one, but still. The old district was never going to hire her, they just don't do that. They will give people courtesy interviews, but paras and subs don't ever get the job. :mad:

    I think the only way to keep at it is to....keep at it. Just keep chipping away. Every little bit of experience, every interview, every sub job brings you that much closer. I have kind of been dipping my toe in the water for the past two years...first year after being a SAHM I was a LTS for three months. Then I decided to take a break :dizzy: and work part time. I tutored and also supervised a student teacher. That summer I looked again, and took an LTS for an extended period of time--almost the whole year. Was glad to have a few months to breathe when it was over (I also didn't like the school). Now I am primarily looking for part time jobs so I can have more time for my family,but I have applied for some full time as well, just because there aren't that many part time jobs and there is a full time job in my dream grade opening up near me. So I keep inching forward.

    It is also important to keep some balance in your life. Spend time with friends and family. Do the things you love. Appreciate the small things. For example, I was just outside with my dogs, and it was so pretty. The morning air was cool and fresh, the birds were singing, and a ray of sunshine was making the dew sparkle on all the flowers. I caught a whiff of my neighbor's roses while observing all this. Job or no job, you can't let these moments slip away...I know that if I get hired, my personal time will diminish considerably, if not altogether at times, so I remind myself to enjoy my summer!!!
     
  10. tonysam

    tonysam Comrade

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    Jul 21, 2013

    Age discrimination is rampant in the field. You are just learning about it the hard way.

    Needless to say, education is not a good field to go into for second career changers.
     
  11. donziejo

    donziejo Devotee

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    Jul 22, 2013

    I was a career changer after 28 years in a fortune 500 company. I'm older and had no problem getting a job. In fact the HR directors were women my age. However, I lived in the west (Utah) and there were a lot of job openings. I moved to the Deep South where there are a lot of job openings. I know from the boards that some states have thousands of teachers applying for the same job
    That's going to make it hard for anyone older or not. My P just finished hiring and she hired a lot of older teachers. She only hired two first year teachers. So, hang in there. Good luck!
     
  12. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    Jul 22, 2013

    That sucks if what you say above is really true.... I'm almost 40 and a career-changer. But, even with a balding head, I'm gonna apply and see where it takes me! :lol: :D
     
  13. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Jul 22, 2013

    I think it's the money more than anything. If you're a career changer then you're starting one step 1. Many districts have to go by the union pay schedule, so some older with more experience may be passed over because they earn more.

    So I think your age should not be a problem.
     
  14. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    I try to convince my wife that districts would hire someone new and out of school with a Bachelor's degree as opposed to someone like me (out of school with a Master's degree). It's about a $5,000 difference and I believe that is a factor. :mad:
     
  15. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Jul 22, 2013

    It could be. It really depends on the district. I think some think more long-term than others. For example, I may cost more than a new grad. But I am 46 and won't be going on any more maternity leaves. :lol: of course, I could potentially develop health issues over time, but I hope my youthful appearance and health would not raise worry about that!

    I think many districts worry about just balancing the budget THIS year. How can we get though this year and present a lower budget to the board?

    I posted about a friend of mine who was just hired at the district she was a LTS at for two years. She found out though a friend on admin (who was leaving for another job and so felt free to confide) that the super had said to the principals that they must save x number of $ this year. The easiest way to do that was to hire all new grads. They were not even going to give my friend an interview! Her friend, who was an acting principal at the time, spoke up and said please, let's interview her. They actually had talks with their lawyer to find out if they could get away without interviewing/hiring her! Yes, this is true, although those who may work in other, more professional, kinder districts have doubted my word.

    Well, of course they were worried about her doing well. But the lawyer said, you really would have a hard time passing her over for an interview, because she has been in the very same position that is being vacated. She did an awesome job and blew the others away. The teachers on the committee said come on, she is the best one. So the p grudgingly hired her.

    Of course my friend was sworn to secrecy and had to act all happy when the p came to her gushing one day to tell her she had the job. My friend is not thrilled at the cloak and dagger approach to the whole process, but she has a job and a contract now.

    She was planning to sue for age discrimination if she hadnt been hired. She even had a job reference from said p saying that she would hire her above all others if she had a position.

    Hopefully, this type of thing doesn't go on everywhere. I know that my husband's district does hire experienced people.
     
  16. panjteacher

    panjteacher Rookie

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    Jul 22, 2013

    These comments are right in my wheelhouse (sorry to use mixed baseball and nautical cliches).
    I was a career changer (I started this in my early 30's), subbed, had the hiring issues we mentioned earlier, and now look at 40 next year, with this fresh-ish Masters (it is actually my second masters so my teaching friends tell me it can't "ruin" me financially on the pay scale because I have the other masters for years), very little experience, slightly rounder than I used to be and graying at the temples.
    My wife says it doesn't matter but I strongly consider that gray cover up at interview time.
     
  17. twilight11105

    twilight11105 Rookie

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    Wow, I am surprised about the discussion this has started. Thank you for your interesting, thoughtful comments. It gives me comfort to know that others are experiencing or know similar situations. Right now, I have chosen to find a different district but not give up just yet...I'm fortunate to live w/in short distance of several others. If I walk away now, i might as well say "they win"- I'm not gonna do that even if it means taking another step back.
     
  18. twilight11105

    twilight11105 Rookie

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    I definitely get the $5000 diff as I've seen it on pay scale..I would not be surprised if it was a factor at all :( So sad that u are punished for being well educated..huh, only in teaching..go figure. Keep the faith, it will happen for you.
     
  19. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    That is what's so annoying. These districts advertise themselves as hiring only the best, most highly qualified, etc. but when it comes time to whip out a contract and hire, they want the cheapest available option. Of course there are many fantastic brand-new teachers out there. I was once one of them. :lol: I'm just pointing out that all things being equal, if they can hire a cheaper person, they will. Most highly qualified tends to fly out the window in the face of budget cuts.
     
  20. DressageLady

    DressageLady Comrade

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    Jul 22, 2013

    I am really struggling, too. I am a middle-aged career changer as well, and actually had a district employee in a screening interview tell me that my university sold me a bill a bill of goods by taking my money and never once telling me that someone my age would have a very difficult time breaking into the teaching profession.

    Given the fact that I am one of only two from my cohort who hasn't been hired yet, I am finding those thoughts true. I had fantastic grades (was on the academic honor role for each semester I was eligible), I was a super star during my internship and student teaching and had wonderful, glowing evaluations and recommendations from my cooperating school. And I took the time and made the effort to also get a literacy endorsement (one of the few in my cohort to get an endorsement in any content area). I have great, related experience working with children.

    I have applied to several different districts, and every charter school in the area. I have had exactly one interview, and that was for a charter school that was having their charter revoked by their home district...and not even that school was interested enough to invite me back for a second interview.

    School starts here in 3-4 weeks, depending on the district. I have started looking in other fields for employment. I am on the sub list for each of the districts I applied to, but have no confidence that subbing will open any doors for me. I have talked with too many subs over the last couple of years who have told me that they have been trying to get hired themselves by the various districts and had no luck.

    I am very saddened to be in this position. And I am a little bitter, too. I try hard to stay positive, but it is impossible not to wallow on the pity pot at least a little when I hear that the young woman who got written up in her student teaching semester for rudeness to a parent, and using the classroom's computer for personal Facebook stuff, has a job and I don't. Or the young woman who never earned better than a "B" in any of our Ed. classes and who had to take the Praxis II exams three times before passing has a job. And I don't. Someone does so poorly during her internship that her cooperating school requests that the university place her somewhere else for her student teaching, and she gets hired. And I don't.

    I know it is a hard time for teachers, especially in my state. I was prepared for that. But I was not prepared for how nepotistic the hiring process was. I thought I would at least get interviews, based on the strength of my application packet. And I have always interviewed well. But I can't even get that far in education.

    Which is a shame. I would have been a fabulous teacher.
    Sheilah
     
  21. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Jul 22, 2013

    Oh, don't give up!!! Some schools do hire subs. And I think you're the kind of person who could get a job if you get your foot in the door and they see how fabulous you are!!!!!! I'm sorry. I really do know how you feel, but it takes time. Some people have to look for several years before finding something. :hugs:
     
  22. twilight11105

    twilight11105 Rookie

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    Don't give up, no matter how much you want too :hugs: It sounds like you have so much to offer!! Think of the disservice you are giving to those students that would not have the chance to experience your amazing skills! I do believe there is value that comes from subbing, being an LTS & TA. PS when I know for sure what it is I will get back w/ you ;)
     
  23. DressageLady

    DressageLady Comrade

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    Jul 22, 2013

    I feel so positive about my experience has a student in the Ed. program at my university and I feel very good about starting and finishing the process. I do feel a great deal of personal satisfaction knowing that I did it.

    I feel wonderful about my experiences as a student teacher. There was not one aspect of student teaching that I didn't enjoy. I was lucky in my mentor teachers, and had full access to their classrooms. It was an awesome experience.

    The districts that I have access to (I have applied to a total of six districts and countless charter schools) just don't have a culture of hiring substitute teachers. None of the districts treat their subs as internal applicants, so subs go through the same application procedure as anyone new to the district does. None of the subs that I have worked with over the last couple of years that have applied for permanent positions within the district(s) they sub in have actually been hired. And I have worked with a lot of subs and been a sub for over a year now.

    The fact of the matter is that I just don't have the time to sub for a few years. I am 50 years old, and each year that I don't get hired puts me that much closer to mandatory retirement. I knew going in that I would have to hit the ground running. I volunteered for every single opportunity that came my way in any of the districts I have access to, because I was told that was a great way to get my foot in the door and introduce myself to principals and other teachers. Saturday Literacy School? I was there. Kindergarten registration at multiple sites over a two week period? I was there. Family Fun Night at various sites throughout the spring? I was there. Anything to get myself out there. And I have been subbing. I have come to the conclusion that all that volunteering was a great way for the districts to get free work, but it really hasn't helped me at all in my job search. And since there are so many great, credentialed teachers forced into the sub pool these days that we are actually more valuable as substitutes because we can be counted to go in and do a good job on every assignment.

    I think that there are so many teachers out there looking for work, districts and principals don't have to put any effort into noticing who are the rock stars. It is like shooting fish in a barrel, there are that many qualified, gifted educators out there, desperate for a job.

    Like a lot of older career changers, relocation is not much of an option. I am married, we own a home and my son is starting high school in a few weeks. We have lived here for thirteen years. My life is just not portable any more.

    I have just applied for my first non-education job. We'll see what happens. Hopefully, I will get an interview. The woman down at the labor department told me I should down play my credential, if I mention it at all, because it might make me less attractive to employers in other fields. The impression could be that I would leave any non-education job the minute I had an offer for a teaching position. So that is ironic. I am not good enough for a teaching position here, but non-education employers might consider me too good to stay in any position I might be offered.

    Shoot, I might end up at Wal-Mart! Which is looking better and better as times goes by. At least there I could completely leave out my two degrees and say I have been a stay-at-home Mom for these past years.

    I appreciate all the support. I really do. I think unless you are going through it personally, it is hard to grasp the true magnitude of difficulty right now. So it is meaningful to hear other hunters tell me to hang in there.

    And I want all of my fellow job seekers to know that I am sending positive thoughts your way, too. This is a noble profession , with the power to change lives for the better. We get to establish routine, and yet never have to to live through the same day twice. We get to mess around with office supplies (!) and introduce children to our favorite books. We can make shy parents welcomed and engaged and former students treasured. What isn't to love about that? No wonder there are so many of us who want to be a part of that whole process.
    Sheilah
     
  24. Milsey

    Milsey Habitué

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    Jul 22, 2013

    My friend is in your boat. She is in her 50s, can't get a full-time teaching job either. However, she did find a job as an activities director at a senior center three days a week, and she absolutely loves it. She is allowed teach whatever she wants as long as it is appropriate, and you can be sure she has no problems with management. She subs on her off days just to keep her foot in the door.
    Why don't you try something like that? I think they would gravitate toward an older lady like you.
     
  25. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Jul 22, 2013

    Oh my.:eek:
     
  26. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Jul 22, 2013

    50 isn't old. It's the new 40. It really is.
     
  27. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Jul 22, 2013

    Hang in there!!!! You are not old, by any stretch of the imagination, and you have a lot to offer!!!! Ignore those negative types who bring you down. They will find themselves on the other side of 40 before they know it, karma being one big bad a$$ b£#¥h. You will find that job that is meant for you. Keep looking, keep applying, keep talking to people. You will get there. You sound like a treasure to me. It is just a matter of time.
     
  28. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    Jul 23, 2013

    I know a lady who had to take the high school math praxis SIX TIMES before she could pass....:eek:
    I also think there are sorority connections in hiring... Can't prove it but I certainly suspect it.:mad:
     
  29. DressageLady

    DressageLady Comrade

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    Jul 23, 2013

    It is just a difficult time to be a teacher in general, and very difficult if you're trying to break into the profession. There is no getting around that. And there is absolutely a sense of who you know being more helpful than what you know, at least as far as getting your foot in the door.

    I will never regret my decision to go back to school. It has been a life long dream of mine to be a teacher, and I did it. I am a teacher! I might be unemployed and I might end up going back to social services to get a job, but I have the credential. I am a teacher. And nobody will ever be able to take that away from me.

    LOL, I am a treasure. I know that I could be such an asset to a school community. I was shopping at Costco yesterday afternoon and I ran into one of the parents from my Kinder class (my student teaching class) and she was horrified that I hadn't been hired yet. That made me feel good. I might not have been good enough, young enough, flashy enough or whatever enough to catch the attention of a principal with an opening, but I caught the attention of the students and parents I worked with. And that counts for a whole lot.

    So, all us un-hireds will keep on keeping on. We'll continue to send out application packets and prepare for the interviews that we get. It will be worth it. I am hedging my bets and applying for positions in other fields, though. If I get hired in mental health or social services and I still have time to substitute enough to stay current in the sub pool, I sure will do that.
    Sheilah
     
  30. DressageLady

    DressageLady Comrade

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    Jul 23, 2013

    LOL! I know, right? Your Spidey senses start to tingle and you just "know".
    Sheilah
     
  31. mommy3boys

    mommy3boys Companion

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    Jul 23, 2013

    Don't give up Sheilah. I'm a career changer and finished my credential at 36. Got a job right away but then lost it a couple of years later. Two years just subbed and worked part time as intervention teacher. I finally got a job through a connection at one of my job sites. Teacher became a principal at a new school. I'm now 41 and feel I just had to pay my dues.

    A friend of mine worked for a district as a para for 10 years while she got her credential. She interviewed for 2 years, 8 different times. No job. Finally got a job for a great charter in a different district. Same charter employs two of my cohorts that were in their late 40's when we graduated.

    Don't give up. You have so much to offer.
     

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