Size Matters: Would you take a bigger class for money?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Tyler B., Mar 14, 2012.

  1. TutoringMatch

    TutoringMatch Rookie

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    Mar 19, 2012

    What is a "good" teacher to one student may only be average, OK, or even bad to another student. Every student has a different learning style, which means that they each may work better with a different teacher. What defines "good" is subjective. Just because a teacher scored well on a test does not mean that they will be able to get through to the students.
     
  2. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Mar 19, 2012

    But a good teacher finds ways to differentiate enough so that the needs of all students can be met, even when those students have diverse learning styles, diverse backgrounds, different needs, and different abilities.

    While I think I understand your point about a teacher's scores not necessarily reflecting student learning, I think there's more to it. If a student demonstrates mastery of a concept, then the student did learn the material. It is very likely that at least part of the reason that the student learned the material is that the teacher was successful teaching it. That's why good scores usually point to good teaching, although in my opinion it's not fair to say that bad scores point to bad teaching (because I think there's a lot more involved than just the teacher's teaching).
     
  3. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    When I mentioned this in Chicago I was told that it was illegal as it was against the constitution. I beleive there they called it 'Tracking'. There were ways round it as far as I could see by having AP classes.
     
  4. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    Mar 19, 2012

    If having larger classes was better then the Private schools would have jumped on this a long time ago as having more kids in a room with one teacher would a) improve results and b) make a bigger profit! As the Private school have not gone down this route and have smaller classes instead I think we can say that the idea is a bust!
     
  5. teacherwithlove

    teacherwithlove Comrade

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    Mar 19, 2012

    If that was $600 more PER STUDENT, then yes, I would take more students. This is coming from a first year teacher with a class of 12 though.
     
  6. bondo

    bondo Cohort

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    Mar 19, 2012

    I haven't read all the comments so I apologize if this was already said. It would depend on the kids being added to the "good" teachers class. If the teacher was getting great students it would not matter that much, and in fact would put "bad" teachers at a disadvantage because they would be losing the best minds in their class, and thus lowering the test scores. If the "good" teachers got the unruly or poor students their scores would probably drop at least a little bit and the kids may just bounce around from "good" teacher to "good" teacher.
    It sounds like Bill Gates is using too much of his business mind in this instance. While all schools are businesses, it is not quite as simple as his statements sound.
     
  7. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Mar 19, 2012

    I said originally it would depend on a few factors such as how many I already had. The more I've considered this, though, the more I dislike it.
     
  8. orangepurple

    orangepurple Companion

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    Mar 19, 2012

    Basically, we have accepted more kids and less money. Our class size went up to 38 (or 40 or so) and our pay went down, due to furlough days (all planning days and teacher work days) so we are trying a different experiment! It's bad. I'd say the extra 6 or so kids make it really hard, even for logistical things like getting the furniture arranged in a comfortable way. I feel like a much worse teacher now, less organized, less up-to-date with planning, grading, following up on problems.
     
  9. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    Mar 19, 2012

    How about giving up your prep for more money?
    Today I subbed for a teacher who know planning period. I didn't stop from 9 am until 1:10 pm, then had 30 minute lunch, then back on until 3:30 pm. Couldn't use the restroom before and after lunch.
    I will get paid more for subbing in this classroom (at least I hope so, last year in this same situation I got paid extra, and the teacher said that's how it is), so it was ok for 1 day. But as a teacher, doing it every day? I guess it would have to be enough money. On top of it this teacher had ELD class, 6th, 7th and 8th grade English classes, so she had to plan for 4 things.
    I'd rather take a few more kids.
     
  10. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I gave up my prep for more money. For me it was a no-brainer. If I hadn't given up my prep, then I would have had 5 classes....but I would have still had a roster of between 240 and 250 students. You can do the math on that one. By adding a section, my classes were reduced to 40-42 students per class, which is a lot different than 48-50 per class. I figured that if I was going to have the same total number of students anyway, I may as well get paid for an extra class. I get paid my hourly rate of pay for the extra class. For me this amounts to quite a few thousand dollars per year. It's well worth it to me.
     
  11. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

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    Mar 19, 2012

    This probably varies by location, but from what I've always seen this is a widely accepted practice in secondary but when people try to do it in elementary it's seen as about the worst idea you could think of. I never quite understood why it was a given in secondary yet seen as downright evil in elementary. Most high schools separate based on ability for classes- ap, college prep, basic, remedial, etc. However, in elementary kids are expected to be in mixed-ability groups. My dad's school actually tried to seperate by ability in elementary and saw some great success. Within one grade level they had a gifted/high achieving class with a gifted co-teacher, two middle/at grade level classes, and one at risk/special ed class with a special ed co-teacher. The state department eventually forced them to stop "tracking" and mix all of the students together again.
     
  12. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I don't get the evil in the word "tracking". Around here, even schools that do would never use that term to describe their system.
     
  13. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    I didn't know that adding an extra class you would reduce the amount of students in each class. In that case it totally makes sense. I don't think that's how it is in this school. Both teachers (the one I subbed for today and the one I subbed for last year) had pretty big classes, I don't see how they could have been bigger.
     
  14. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Other schools might do it differently. For me, since I teach an elective, I had a clearly defined, set number of students who had registered. Even by adding an extra section, there wouldn't have magically been another 50 students to fill those seats.

    Our school has also used prep buyouts to avoid hiring another teacher. If five math teachers are willing to each sell their prep, then that means that the school doesn't need to hire a sixth math teacher. In that case, the math teachers who sold their preps wouldn't be reducing their class sizes, they'd just be taking on an extra class.

    So it all depends on the situation.
     
  15. aravindankngce

    aravindankngce New Member

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    Mar 20, 2012

    Im from India where we normally have crowded classes.. But, we are sure to say that we cant handle classes with students more than 40 in number...
     
  16. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Mar 20, 2012

    We are often required to give up part or all of our planning to cover classes, and for no pay.
     
  17. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Mar 20, 2012

    We sub internally; each day we have an On Call period where we're expected to be available to cover for anyone who is out.

    But if someone is out for a long term period, we get paid extra to actually teach the class. Last year I picked up an extra class in October for a friend undergoing a rough chemo regimen; I've also covered maternity leaves. We're paid extra, but it's pretty much understood that there are very few good reasons for not accepting the offer.
     

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