Should I email?

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by giraffe326, Jan 17, 2014.

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  1. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    Jan 19, 2014

    Smiles. We have a biohazard training workshop on how to clean this stuff up. We have gloves, etc. in the room. It never happened to me but blood did--my own. I just know what was expected of us. Personally, I never thought twice about it. In my new workplace, not a school but an adult based special needs organization, I have had to clean up the vomit and we don't have a second crew that comes behind us.
     
  2. AdamnJakesMommy

    AdamnJakesMommy Habitué

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    This is kind of a slight tangential point/question. Has it ever happened in reverse for anyone besides me?? I left detailed, highly detailed plans--labeled everything for the sub. Yet somehow everything got messed up? The only way that would be possible is if someone hadn't actually read the plans...
     
  3. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Yes. I've had subs that can't read, subs that can't speak English, and subs who apparently refuse to interact with the children whatsoever. That's why I now make all plans plans readable and easy enough to follow that one of my "teacher-girls" could essentially lead the day, if necessary. That led to a fun surprise last year for my administrator, who walked in to see one of my girls teaching the class while my sub was at the back table, drinking coffee and reading a newspaper.
     
  4. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    Jan 19, 2014

    Oh. All.the.time!
    In my old district, the majority of our subs were retired teachers. They would teach whatever they felt like teaching. One sub was notorious for never teaching math. They would also do things together a lot- which in 5th grade drove me crazy. I couldn't take it for a grade. I learned to leave only things I wouldn't want to record for a sub.
    While I was an LTS earlier in the year, we had an afternoon workshop, so I had a sub. I ALWAYS put everything in a stack, in chronological order, with the plans on top. I had a note stuck to the plans saying they didn't do some of it because she couldn't find the plans. :confused::confused::confused: Yet they did the math worksheet and Time For Kids that I left. :dizzy::confused::dizzy::confused: They hate most of the subs and the P has banned several from the building. They love that I can sub now! I was there 3 days last week, and I will for sure be there 1 day this week!
     
  5. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Jan 19, 2014

    If you email at all, I'd stick with the vomit issue and how it is a health issue. There's no need to throw a teacher under the bus for less than detailed plans. You were given plans with page numbers of what to teach...truthfully, that's more than what most subs here complain about here. While I essentially leave books with post its, scripts for what to say, examples to put on board, 'in case you need more' activities, when I subbed I ALWAYS went with math games, a read aloud, ideas for writing, behavior mgt tricks....you can't control the secretary's behavior...you can, however, kill them with kindness or 'play dumb', get them on your side...
     
  6. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    The job was scheduled two weeks in advance. My concern with the plans was NOT academic- I can swing that without a problem. There was no schedule- no lunch time, no dismissal time, no specials time. It is also not posted in the room. There were no behavior, bathroom, library, etc... policies. Nothing. I find that pretty unacceptable.

    I am more worried about negative feedback getting to my employer, as well as future subs having to put up with this crap. That would be my reasoning for emailing. If I do, I already decided that I will only bring up the vomit issue, and the plans. The plans will be more of a suggestion for sub folders than a complaint.
     
  7. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    Jan 19, 2014

    This. It's my pet peeve (one of many).
     
  8. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    Jan 19, 2014

    I would want to know, as a principal, that teachers aren't doing their part to leave decent plans to continue the education process when they're out of the building.
     
  9. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Jan 19, 2014

    Then, as a P, you'd probably be in your rights to ask teachers to copy you on sub plans. It's not a subs job to evaluate or report on a teacher.
     
  10. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    Jan 19, 2014

    It's a sub's job to do...his job. How is a sub supposed to do that with poor lesson plans?

    If your room is constantly filthy because the custodians aren't cleaning it properly, do you just say, "It's not my job to evaluate or report on support staff?"

    I'd hope not.
     
  11. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Jan 19, 2014

    The OP was left plans, just not lunch/dismissal duty. Seems like easy enough info to find out.

    Custodians are in my union. I don't throw them under the bus...I take my concerns, if any, directly to the custodians.
     
  12. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    Jan 19, 2014

    That's not what it sounds like to me.

    "- practically no lesson plans- just a list of page numbers to teach. No sub folder or anything. Not even a schedule- not a copy, not posted in the room, nothing! No procedures, rules, routines, policies, etc... It was 2.5 handwritten pages, with at least .5 a page talking about the broken copy maching."

    This whole, "they're in my union, so I have to mask their ineptness/support ineffectiveness" crap HAS TO STOP in this profession. Jesus, no wonder people don't take us seriously anymore. Does anyone actually have pride in or respect for the educational process or the basic expectation that people be competent in their jobs anymore?
     
  13. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    If a custodian left puke in my room for four hours, that isn't a "let me go talk to them after school situation." It's a health hazard and it's disgusting beside. Telling the principal is absolutely appropriate about that. I'd absolutely be LIVID if a kid puked in my room and it sat there for four hours (to say nothing of the parents of my kids), and you'd better believe I'd want somebody's head for it.
     
  14. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    Jan 19, 2014

    The kids deserve better than protecting ineptness because of "union brotherhood," I think we'd both agree.

    Of course, what constitutes "ineptness" we may disagree about; that's clearly not the case here.
     
  15. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    Jan 19, 2014

    Thursday 1/16/14
    Thank you for subbing!!

    The copier was broken so I don't have worksheets to supplement the book assignments. Sorry about this. I emailed Mrs. **** to see when it would be fixed.

    8:45- announcements
    Students should use a piece of scrap paper on the front table to complete the challenge question on the board.

    After announcements, students should line up and switch classrooms with Mrs. ****. Incoming students complete the challenge question.
    Students complete page 103 in their math journal. They will need to share templates. Have them attempt it independently first and then go over each question on the board and have students share their methods. When finished, introduce pictographs and have students complete 103A and 103B.
    When done, play the Discovery Ed video. If this goes well, you can play the next video. Just hit play. If time permits, round table read pages 99-102 in the Michigan book. Have students answer the 4 questions.
    I know it doesn't sound bad so far, but here is when it gets better.
    Line students up so they may switch back with Mrs. ***. Take incoming students to lunch. When was this switch supposed to happen?
    After lunch, cover the same material with the group of kids.
    You may push things to Friday.
    Give homework to each group.
    Ms. *** will be coming sometime to talk with the students. Never did.

    Friday 1/17/14
    Complete any assignments from Thursday.

    Use classtime to complete the following:
    Math Journal page 104
    105
    106
    107

    If time permits, read pages 109-115 of the Michigan book and complete the 4 questions.

    If you don't get to everything it is fine.

    Thanks again,
    ****
     
  16. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    Jan 19, 2014

    As I said, the content was fine. I can wing it if I didn't have anything. Behavior plan? Schedule? Class list? Students' desks didn't even have name tags. If these plans were accompanied by a sub folder with this information, it would have been fine. I didn't even know they had behavior specialists on staff until the last 45 minutes of the day on Thursday when I sent a group to the office, and the behavior specialist brought them back 10 minutes later.
     
  17. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    Jan 19, 2014

    I would absolutely talk to ANYONE I had a problem with first. If I have a problem with another teacher, I talk to them about it. I don't run to the principal. If I had a problem with my P, I would talk to him. I wouldn't run to the super or the board. There are steps you take. It's no different than when I'd rather a student/parent talk to me about an issue instead of running to someone else. It's just a common courtesy IMO.

    If it were something serious like abuse or something, I would definitely escalate that to the proper chain of command. That's why it exists.
     
  18. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    Jan 19, 2014

    Thank you.
     
  19. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    I agree and believe that this is the adult thing to do unless it is something extreme (like abuse). I find it very immature and unprofessional when co-workers run to Admin to complain about each other. Hate working with those type of (untrustworthy) people.
     
  20. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Jan 19, 2014

    I'd say that leaving vomit on the floor for four hours should qualify as a "go up the chain of command" thing. Even if you disregard the fact that it makes it very difficult/impossible to work, it's a major health and safety hazard.
     
  21. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    This should definitely have been shared with the P...and the sub service. I would have not stayed in the room under such a situation. Nor would I have cleaned it up. I have blocked off such contaminated areas, thrown paper over and buzzed for custodians when students are sick. Our custodians come quickly.
     
  22. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    You're giving mixed signals here... first you said you wouldn't tell the principal, you'd go to the custodian. I agree with everything you said in this post though... I've only ever had one kid puke in my room, and from "beginning to end" was less than four minutes. My custodial staff is awesome about "emergency situations." That's what makes this so baffling to me. You'd think vomit would be something that an elementary school custodian could fix pretty quickly.
     
  23. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Jan 19, 2014

    Not meaning to send 'mixed signals'.:huh:
    When I said I wouldn't/don't throw custodians under the bus, I meant it. The custodians were never involved in the OP's situation. The office told her there was no one available. We dont know if the custodians were even informed of the situation. I suggested the OP make the admin aware that there was a health hazard that she was unable to get help with.
     
  24. sue35

    sue35 Habitué

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    Jan 19, 2014

    I agree with czacza about not mentioning the plans. I would not tattle on a teacher, especially one I do not know. Suggesting sub folders is really still telling on the teacher, in my opinion. The plans don't seem that bad. It sounds like things that she maybe just forgot. You could ask another teacher when lunch is, even ask the mean secretary when specials are.

    Email about the vomit, not the teacher or the plans. They weren't great but they weren't horrible by any means
     
  25. EMonkey

    EMonkey Connoisseur

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    Jan 20, 2014

    I wouldn't bother with emailing over any of it. If the office is so off the principal knows and is just going to get irked at you for pointing out his/her ineptitude.
     
  26. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    God forbid we respect the responsibility we're given; when I see teachers let students leave five minutes earlier than the bell for lunch, I should go tell them "that's against the rules" when they clearly know this is the case anyway? When teachers refuse to administer required assessments as mandated by administration and I'm the one in charge of collecting that data, I should go ask them AGAIN to administer the assessment after they're received 2-3 reminders?

    When vomit is left on the floor because custodians haven't prioritized their work correctly, I should ask them nicely not to allow the odor of vomit to seep into my room for hours?

    This is a terribly, terribly pathetic attitude. Administrators are management; when people aren't doing their jobs and it's impacting your ability to do YOUR job, you let management know. This, "they're in my union so I have to protect them from their own ineptitude" nonsense HAS TO STOP if we're ever to regain the trust of the public. Respect our role as educators more than you want to protect your peers from the consequences of their actions simply because they contribute money to the same professional organization that you do.
     
  27. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    HT, if I've asked the person in your case to administer the test and asked them in person why they didn't, then and only then would I go to my P.

    Not to mention that my P is extremely busy. I'm not going to bombard him with every little thing. If I can solve something myself, I will. It saves everyone time.

    This has NOTHING to do with being in a union. Our custodians aren't in a union, but if something wrong happened I know there's a very good reason as they're very reliable.
     
  28. Milsey

    Milsey Habitué

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    You sound like someone who just sits there and complains and does nothing. If the LP's aren't to your liking, modify them. Bring a backup one or two.
    Every class can be brought under control. It's up to you to figure out how to get this class to listen. Kids love music. Play a song, pass out the lyrics. Ask kids to summarize what happens and so on..
     
  29. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Have you read anything else this OP has written or experienced? You have no idea what kind of person giraffe is, though you would if you had taken the time to actually read instead of just judging.
     
  30. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    No one is saying any of the above. If you are an administrator you need to et the vibe, the temperature, the goings on of your building...ate custodians slacking, are teachers not meeting needs, are the office staff approachable....? It's a teacher's job to teach and support students. As an administrator it's your job to ,ake sure your staff is supported, has access to quality pd, and s remediated/rewarded . Don't ask us to do your job. We're busy doing ours.
     
  31. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    I'm trying to stay polite here- the content in the lesson plans wasn't my problem.
     
  32. donziejo

    donziejo Devotee

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    Giraffe, it's obvious Milsey didn't read your post. Did you email? I'm sending positive vibes your way that you land a permanent teaching job.
     
  33. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    Thanks.
    Not yet. I flip flop constantly. I think I will, but very politely :)
     
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