Sharing Material Moral Dilemma

Discussion in 'General Education' started by ebeli, Aug 20, 2016.

  1. ebeli

    ebeli Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2016
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 21, 2016

    Yeah but even on contract I am on schedule to provide a certain number of hours per week which include PD, staff meetings and adjunct duty. So any additional hours I put in besides my "contrac" is my free time. I don't belong to the district, I work a certain number of hours for the district, I was hired to teach a topic for which I am an expert in and any material I create in my free time, I should be given a compensation for, that includes all material made on my spare time.

    Of course my downfall here is storing the assignments in google drive, read and learn teachers! Host your own material.

    The book was put in my drive for easy accessibility and I dont my believe I violated any copyright laws, the book is copyrighted and all share permissions were turned off on it, I made sure of it. I and only I had access to it that is until my institution decided to share all my files regardless of what was in them.
     
  2. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    572

    Aug 22, 2016

    intellectual property is not a new thing, reserved just for teaching. I have an awesome idea for a product that I know will make me millions one day :) I need a friend to help me build it. But until he quits his job as a mechanical engineer for his company, I won't give him details. Because anything he creates while working there will belong (in part or whole) to his company. I don't want to share :)

    As a real world example, at my former job a coworker quit her position with the company abruptly. She was making a great salary with awesome benefits. But she had an idea for a product and knew if she even did research while working at the company, she'd have to name the company in the patent. She quit, designed her product and is doing very well financially now. There was talk about the company suing for rights since the idea obviously came to her while she was still employed. But nothing came of that.
     
  3. phillyteacher

    phillyteacher Comrade

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    124

    Aug 22, 2016

    Nice attitude! I have actually read all your posts, but you are not especially clear. I'm not the only one to post clarifying questions. No need to get snarky because people don't universally agree with your position.

    You keep saying "the district" took your stuff but then you say that it was for a college class. District generally implies K-12. If it was the district's drive, which it sounds like it was since they were able to share it despite you not enabling sharing, then it is what it is.

    Copyright concerns aside, going back to the original question about sharing or not sharing, my default is to always share. I have benefitted greatly from generous colleagues and people I don't know who post things for free on the internet, and I hope that my work benefits others. I believe in generosity without imposing caveats about how much thanks I should get or specifically how someone should ask me for my materials.
     
    a2z likes this.
  4. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    6,031
    Likes Received:
    1,979

    Aug 22, 2016

    So you were hired as a "consultant" for the district not under a regular teacher part-time contract? Even so, you need to look at what your contract says about materials needed to teach the class. It is all about the contract.
     
    phillyteacher likes this.
  5. ebeli

    ebeli Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2016
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 22, 2016

    To be clear I work for a district and a college it was the college who took it.

    And yes, I used them interchangeably in the forum, some people didn't go back and read and assumed it was my district who took the data. But it raised a lot of good questions because I'm paid a certain number of hours to teach so I consider additional time as my spare time as a k-12 teacher.

    You'd be pist too if your personal data was invaded! If you've ever had to build a class from the ground up you know all of the sacrifices that you'll have to make, no more free time, you're stressed all the time, you're dealing with so many things at once and to have someone to take it from me and someone call me petty here, yeah I got defensive. You need to know the sacrifices before judging another teacher. I'm happy it's been easy for some teachers but it hasn't been for everyone.

    As a college adjunct faculty I get paid only to teach the course and no office/prep hours.
    So this raises another question, should teachers with material given to them be paid less depending on how much material was provided? Since they'll be putting in less free time?

    I created material for both of the positions, neither one of the schools offered me any material or even had any.

    And, I just got hired at another college where I plan to use the material I created and that was taken from my drive the colleges are within 25 miles of each other.

    This new college has asked me to -reinvent the class because the other instructor didn't have updated material.

    That's why it's a moral dilemma, I know what the professional thing to do is, and the "nice" thing to do is, but as someone mentioned it's nice to get credit for your work. And prior to this forum I hadn't thought of all the legal ties behind it, and it truly is interesting because if it went to court, I would still defend my side arguing that my free time is mine and I was not compensated to work beyond certain hours. I would also argue that it was taken without notifying me and there was personal data in the folders.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
  6. phillyteacher

    phillyteacher Comrade

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    124

    Aug 22, 2016

    That's what I, and others, are trying to communicate. It isn't your personal data with an expectation of privacy if you're storing it on the college's servers/ system.

    At any rate, I have no further interest in this argument so I'm going to bow out.
     
  7. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    6,031
    Likes Received:
    1,979

    Aug 22, 2016

    So all of these confused responders are the problem? You had at least 5 people not understanding what you wrote. You blame it on them not bothering to go back and read. Could you consider for a moment that your lax use of terms and poorly written account was not clear even to those who did go back and read? You admit that you use terms interchangeably. Those terms do not mean the same thing. Using them interchangeably creates confusion for the reader because there is no way we can know what you really mean by them when you are using them because the meaning you are using at the time only exists in your head. In written context, the reader can only apply the proper meaning. So, when you use the wrong term, you present the wrong information to the reader. Don't blame us for your poor written explanation.

    I'm out too.
     
  8. phillyteacher

    phillyteacher Comrade

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    124

    Aug 22, 2016

    I enjoy how you edited your post significantly after my response to further attack me.

    I didn't say that my experience has been easy. Far from it, in fact.

    I have benefitted from others' work quite a bit and I have also put in a significant amount of my own work outside of school hours. I believe you get back what you put out into the world. I'm going to leave it at that and leave this thread for real now. :peacesign:
     
    a2z likes this.
  9. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Aug 22, 2016

    "We as teachers put a lot into the world each day"

    I think most teachers would be upset if they walked into school today and found that there was a public web address or world access to their files regardless of if they are on school storage system.

    Can all of you "I freely share all my teaching stuff" teachers please give me access to ALL of your teaching material? Please? Pretty please?

    Let's see how many do...
     
  10. phillyteacher

    phillyteacher Comrade

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    124

    Aug 22, 2016

    I'm happy to. PM me an email address.
     
  11. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4,268
    Likes Received:
    808

    Aug 22, 2016

    I have a lot of sympathy for your materials being taken without your permission. I'm pretty limited in sympathy for the hours spent off contract time though. Sorry.
     
    mathmagic likes this.
  12. ebeli

    ebeli Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2016
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 22, 2016

    Not attacking you at all, it is simply how you are reading it.

    Am I defensive? I would say I am. I was initially very upset when I saw my folders shared and felt my privacy violated which is why I created this post, I don't have close friends who teach, no one would understand me. I needed input, I needed to think it through.

    I edited my post to remove rambling, I ramble a lot as you've noticed, and I also edited the part where it talks directly to you! because I didn't mean you, I meant in general.
     
  13. ebeli

    ebeli Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2016
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 22, 2016

    I'm not arguing against this, this is very true. It's true for many websites, for example Instagram, as soon as you post something it becomes "public property" same with facebook, all your photos become property of Facebook.
     
  14. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Aug 22, 2016

    E-mail sent. All resources please, not ones you choose to share.
     
  15. phillyteacher

    phillyteacher Comrade

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    124

    Aug 22, 2016

    Replied and shared Drive folders. The only things I removed were two files that had student names.
     
  16. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Aug 22, 2016

    Thank you very much for sharing.
     
  17. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,534
    Likes Received:
    2,590

    Aug 22, 2016

    I haven't read this whole thread.

    I'm not sure about the laws and policies regarding materials created by a teacher for use with his or her class. My feeling is that I want to retain the rights to stuff I create myself. I will usually happily share with anyone who asks me, but I really dislike the idea of someone going in and forcibly taking my materials without my permission. Again, it may be perfectly legal for the district to do that--I have no idea. I don't like it, though, and I won't make it easy for anyone to come in and snatch my stuff.

    When I left my previous school, I removed all my files from the school server. I'm sure that a tech savvy person could get into the master backup and retrieve them, but I doubt that anything I created would have been deemed that important.
     
    Pashtun likes this.
  18. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    1,174

    Aug 22, 2016

    If a contract said I was "off" at 3:30...
    ...and I did copies from 3:00-3:30, then made a document from 3:30-4:00
    or
    ...I did the document from 3:00-3:30, then made copies from 3:30-4:00
    - is there enough difference between those two that means that the document is yours and not property of the school?

    Gladly. To be honest, trying to do so would eat up tons of time trying to figure out how to send it all to you (especially since I'm not 100% organized with computer files nor am I the upmost expert with sharing files:p), but I hope you'd accept my word that I would gladly send over all my teaching materials. (Plus, I already shared that other math extension file that took me many, many days to put together...so hopefully that backs up my word, too!)

    In my mind, and from the sounds of this thread, there just seems to be a "common sense" / "unwritten/unspoken rule" that most people are willing to share some/most/all of what they do with colleagues, but would prefer that they ask first if they could use it (so that there's that feeling of appreciation and trust of someone not going behind your back) and that it isn't someone who is using the materials just for the sake of being able to sit back and be lazy.
     
  19. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    1,174

    Aug 22, 2016

    I want to make sure, given my other posts, that I also say (regardless of where either of us stand on the "sharing" beliefs): sorry that your materials got used without anyone taking that kind step of asking your permission! I forgot if you said whether they said anything or if you've talked to them about it, but that might be a great thing to do, so perhaps they're kinder to the next person that they're sharing materials with. Know that most educators, at any level, are the kind that would tend to ask permission first, especially if the materials aren't obviously out in the open.
     
  20. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Aug 22, 2016

    Actually this is my point exaclty. I think most of us are willing to share most our stuff, as long as WE are in control of when, how, and under what conditions. Not, simply open access to all our files of material. What you offered was awesome, but you were in control of offerring it.

    Do you have your material stored on google drive or OneDrive?

    So far Phillyteacher has offered pretty much open access to his google drive. I am VERY impressed, I would not likely do that for many people, I am willing to share, but there is almost always some limitations as to how and what it will be. I keep all my material on OneDrive, I am not giving access to that with anyone. However, if anyone is interested in anything in particular, I would likely share specific material. I would prefer sharing under collaboration and discussions, not just exchanging "stuff".

    Hope this makes sense.
     
    mathmagic likes this.
  21. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    1,174

    Aug 22, 2016

    Yes, I see what you are saying. In regards to the math extension menu, I meant to use that only as an example of being willing to share and that I'm not one to not follow through :) And what you are saying is pretty much what I was saying in the heart of the post, if I'm not mistaken. Going into someone else's files is a breach of "privacy" (unless already shared) in most senses of the word - even though the work isn't necessarily private - but that doesn't mean that people aren't okay with sharing everything. Not to mention, as I note below, most situations would lend themselves to not being able to share "everything" carte blanche where everyone can access, due to how many of us store our files with student names / information. However, most people would be willing to share anything that was in there.

    As an example, another teacher had made some copies, and I had noticed one on the copy machine for how she had gone about organizing her literacy work. I thought it was interesting and would be something that would fit my style well, but I went and checked with her to get an okay to use / edit it. She ended up forwarding me all the files she had created on that (which she had obviously spent some time thinking about and creating!) without hesitation, and to this day (ha, well, just about a year later) I'm using it, except edited/revised to match what works for me.

    (To note: I'm on OneDrive, and would gladly open that up to others, though a: I'm not sure how, and b: I have files with school name / student names / etc.. in there)
     
    Pashtun likes this.
  22. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    257

    Aug 23, 2016

    www.mrroughton.com. I don't post the tests so students can't see them but I will happily email them to you.

    Enjoy.

    And yes, of course it is frustrating when my work shows up in published education books (it has) but I can handle personal slights. I didn't build any of it for attention or attaboys. I built them to benefit my students. If other students can further benefit - fantastic. If people are willing to take it and pass it off as their own that's their own moral dilemma not mine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
    phillyteacher likes this.
  23. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    6,031
    Likes Received:
    1,979

    Aug 23, 2016

    I did! I saw your Assignments (CYOA) and translated it to mean something different than what was inside the link. LOL It was funny. Loved the potential double meaning.

    Really nice site. A student's dream.
     
  24. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    1,174

    Aug 23, 2016

    Funny how an acronym changes meaning from when you are a kid reading a book to when you are an adult :rofl:
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. mrsammieb,
  2. RainStorm,
  3. Christina Papadopoulos
Total: 261 (members: 6, guests: 226, robots: 29)
test