Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by mrswhatsurname, Sep 10, 2012.
Sep 10, 2012
Teachers should NEVER go on strike.
Sometimes it's the only way to get things changed... And from the bit I've read, Chicago needs some things to change in a big way.
So does the state where I work, but I went to work today. Some of the things I read made me shake my head for real.
So Chicago should end up like my district... not allowed by state law to strike, no step/COLA for six years, and now facing a hefty pay cut - absolutely no recourse available to teachers? Just suck it up and go bankrupt?
I love teaching, but I also really love having a roof over my head and food in my belly.
Coming from a state where our collective bargaining rights were almost taken away, I disagree. Striking should be an absolute last resort and should be the result of multiple failed attempts to compromise. It should also be an action that is taken with great consideration of the consequences and potential harm to students' education. With that being said, it sounds like this was a last resort for Chicago school teachers. After dealing with broken promises, longer work days with not a cent of additional pay and mismanaged programs for bilingual and special education students....they needed a change. You may be fine with being mistreated in the workplace, but I know that if I had to deal with what the Chicago teachers were put through, my defeated and depressed attitude would definitely affect my teaching...and that's NOT what is best for children.
They don't know how nice they have it.
....FourSquare? Other CPS teachers from AtoZ? Care to respond?
Exactly this. No one woke up and said, "Hey, I don't feel like working today. Let's go on strike!" It is a LAST resort but is NECESSARY to really get the best for our students. I would not take striking lightly but I do feel it has its place.
:lol::lol: I keep waiting for them to show up... Where's chicagoturtle?
The news media have reported the strike as though it was strictly about teachers demanding more pay.
My understanding, however, is that it's the non-pay issues that have compelled the teachers to decide that the alternatives to striking are all worse. From what I hear, the issues include
- woefully inadequate preparation time
- classrooms and student bathrooms in disrepair
- furniture that poses safety hazards to the students
- absence of the sorts of basic supplies - copy paper, for gosh sakes, and whiteboard markers - that workers in all other industries take for granted
and many more shortcomings that, if unremedied, will have a much worse impact for much longer on student well-being and success than will a strike.
We should all just be so grateful to have jobs that we should never, ever complain about anything ever.
Also, if a bad situation is even worse somewhere else, we should never ever complain because we are better off.
Uh huh. Sounds great. And this power will never, ever be abused by employers.
In fact, I am beginning to think that it properly falls to teachers outside CPS to make the case in their own communities for the CTU strike being appropriate. Otherwise, the public will still think - because that's what they're hearing - that the strike is primarily about money.
I agree, Teacher Groupie.
I don't think anybody, media included, has actually read the CTU document.
Also, on the "cushy" 6 hour day: someone correct me if I am wrong, but are the schools not in session longer? By my calculations, their total contract hours worked are similar to my 7.5 hour day.
Shame on teachers for exercising their first amendment right! Administration is always correct and teachers should never peacefully assemble about any issue.
Since when have people in power ever abused their authority? They alone are better than their collective force of minions.
I can't even rationalize how teachers could do such a thing. If they are unhappy with their circumstances, there are other routes they could have taken. For example, they could have suspended all extra-curricular coaching/sporting events. They could have boycotted local businesses until the contract was approved. This makes me very sad for the students of Chicago.
Molly, I think - when we did the thread about contract hours - that Chicago does have less than 7.5 hours per day.
TG, I hadn't heard about all of the other stuff. Off to go investigate. (They cut all of our budget monies this year, so from now on, everything for the classroom - except copy paper - comes out of our pockets. It's almost as interesting as the pay for me.)
Well, maybe the students should go on strike whenever they think the teacher is being unfair. Yes, they should just walk out of the building and leave. But, then the parents would be charged for truancy in court.
If you can't put the students first, get out of the profession.
Trolls + food = bad.
They do have a shorter day, but isn't the year longer? When I looked at the pay scales, the contract days and hours seemed similar to my total hours.
Mrs: go read the official document put out by the CTU--it is linked in another thread here. Most of the issues are directly related to the students. For example, dangerous building conditions. Would you happily send YOUR kid to a school with falling plaster?
At any rate, unless you are adequately informed as to why they are striking, you are contributing nothing here except random babble.
molly, where's that doc, please?
I'll try to link, but my iPad 3G is making things very difficult.
Can you post the name of the A to Z thread?
I feel just a little bad for the parents who had no warning that this was going to happen. (At least that's the way the news made it seem.) With that being said, if we could strike in my state, I would be the first person out there. We are treated so poorly it's downright pitiful.
If the parents hadn't made a back-up plan, then it is their fault. They knew it could be a very real possibility.
I do feel bad for the parents who can't afford day care, or to take a day off for that matter.
But as for the notice? They knew it could happen. They've been talking about this for months.
TG, the thread name was "What are your teacher hours?"
I looked at chicagoturtle's post
I was definitely going to call TROLL!
Holy crap, TG and Molly. I had no idea about all of the other stuff going on. Too bad the media isn't reporting it. Thanks for the link.
(Also, maybe Chicago's CTU should travel south. We only get 3.9 hours planning per week!)
I completely support the CTU. I think I have fairly similar (if not worse) teaching conditions, but NC is a right to work state. Unions are illegal.
I wish whatever the CTU accomplishes could somehow trickle down to me. I know it won't, but one can dream...
Thanks, molly. It's a sobering read.
The issues are similar in every urban school district I can think of.
Though I'm quite sure this is a troll I actually agree. The ability to strike without fear of any actual recourse on the part of the employer is a tyranny of the majority. Teachers can strike without any fear of a lockout in return - how is that fair? The Chicago teachers will get their way. More new teachers will get laid off. The state's bond rating will get cut even further. Congrats.
And all under a very liberal mayor.
giraffe and chebrutta, maybe it can trickle down. I think it's possible - but it's going to take work.
In fact, I think we need to launch a thread about this.
Rockguykevin, have you read the document for which molly posted the link?
My understanding is that this was posted in all the media outlets ten days before it happened. Also a large number of schools were open being "manned" by nonteachers so that children could have a place to stay and to have breakfast and lunch.
Shame on your sweeping generalization.
Per CNN, CTU already sacrificed some pay issues to ensure teachers could be rehired.
Also, teachers aren't getting paid while on strike, correct? How many can afford that for long?
This is the first strike in TWENTY-FIVE years--hardly an everyday occurrence. These are real issues being discussed, and CPS had lots of time to discuss them.
Mrs: I notice you have listed yourself as special education.
What will you do when your job is on the line because your worth as a teacher depends on how many of your students, regardless of ability, can pass the mandated exams with a fairly arbitrarily decided score?
Is it fair for teachers at a low SES school, many ESL students, homeless students, etc to be evaluated as less effective teachers than the teachers 5 miles away in a ritzy little suburb? This is the case in my district. We have schools with 99% college bound and others where we struggle to get kids in the doors each day. My evaluations now depend on a kid deciding to show up for their state test.
This is an at will state; we have no recourse.
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