Sending kids to specials late...

Discussion in 'Elementary Education' started by PEteacher07, Nov 15, 2008.

  1. PEteacher07

    PEteacher07 Cohort

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    537
    Likes Received:
    8

    Nov 15, 2008

    My assistant and I are getting upset with some of our classroom teachers. They continue to send their students to PE with 5-10 minutes left in our class. Sometimes it is b/c the child was sick and needed to make up work and sometimes it is as a consequence for poor behavior. I don't mind if a student has to miss my class for either reason or missing the first few minutes of class to finish up something real quick. We have the 135 minutes of PE a week rule in Texas so our kids could miss 2 days of PE a week and still meet the minimum standard. But, what I do mind is kids walking in the gym in the middle of my class when I have already explained instructions, divided teams up, etc. I have had teachers send students with 5 minutes left in class or they will let them "trickle in" one at a time and then my assistant and I get to repeat everything over and over again to those students. With 5 minutes left in class, we are sitting back down in our seats and lining up at the door. Why bother sending them at that point?!?!

    Bottom line, if a student is going to come to our class half way through the period, then the teacher needs to keep them in the classroom. Our principal has explained this and the teachers keep doing it. I think we are going to make the kids turn back around and go back to class since the teachers aren't getting the hint.

    Our co-worker who is one of the computer assistants said that one time a teacher took her class into the computer lab during their designated time with a pencil and paper test that they needed to do. They weren't even going to do a computer lesson. They came in, sat down on the floor, did their test, and she walked out and left them with the student teacher. Our friend was very upset b/c she was expected to run a study hall instead of teaching her lesson plans. At that point, the teacher should have had her students miss their computer lab time and kept them in the classroom and made them finish their test. It is not the computer assistant's responsibility to babysit her class and the teacher shouldn't leave her class alone with an assistant and student teacher.

    Does this happen at any of your schools?
     
  2.  
  3. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,959
    Likes Received:
    2,116

    Nov 15, 2008

    PE and other 'specials' are my prep so I try not to be late at all- I've earned my break!! ;) Sometimes I get my WHOLE class to a prep a few minutes late but never keep kids behind when it's a specials time for them (and me!!)
     
  4. wig

    wig Devotee

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    1

    Nov 15, 2008

    In my opinion the "specials" are as important as any other class and I would no more keep them out of those classes than a core class. Sometimes those are the only classes they can feel success in.
     
  5. maroki

    maroki Comrade

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 15, 2008

    As far as I know, it doesn't happen at my school. Specials are also my planning time, so I try to be prompt and make sure my kids are on time...both for myself and out of respect for the teacher who has lessons prepared. However, I do know there are several teachers at my school who give up lunch/recess/planning time often to keep students in for extra work or create extra instructional time, so they may send students late to specials...I just don't see it.
     
  6. daizie75

    daizie75 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 15, 2008

    This used to happen to me at my former school where I taught technology. Sometimes it was just because the teacher wanted some kids to help her clean or something like that. The P finally made a rule that kids were not allowed to be kept out of specials.
     
  7. Yank7

    Yank7 Habitué

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 15, 2008

    The problem I have is children being pulled out of my time for reading or speech or ESL or who knows what.They are usually sent back with twenty minutes left in the period and have no idea what we are doing,or they are pulled out half way through the lesson and lose the full meaning of the lesson.Since I see most of my classes once a week this is really a nuisance.
     
  8. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,563
    Likes Received:
    4

    Nov 15, 2008

    Teachers send kids late sometimes but never more than 5 minutes.
     
  9. trayums

    trayums Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,424
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 15, 2008

    Wow! As a former music teacher I would be offended by this. If the classroom teachers are not showing the value in PE, Music, Art etc. then the kids aren't going to take them seriously either. Missing a special area class should NOT in my opinion be a punishment or a time to make up work! I'm sorry that this is happening.
    That being said I have to say that I have special area classes first thing in the morning (9:00am) and I TRY really hard to get there on time but I am consistently 5 minutes late just trying to get all the morning stuff done before we leave! I feel so badly.
     
  10. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,563
    Likes Received:
    4

    Nov 15, 2008


    Mine is last period and they have to be all packed up with backpacks...not always easy.
     
  11. janlee

    janlee Devotee

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    9

    Nov 15, 2008

    In NY a child must receive a certain amount of gym/recess time each week. If I keep my students from gym and recess I can be held accountable for them not receiving their time. If I need a child to makeup missed work I ask either the librarian, music, or art teacher if it's possible to keep a student for some extra time. They usually say yes because I asked first, rather than do first
     
  12. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,959
    Likes Received:
    2,116

    Nov 15, 2008

    This you have to make your peace with..Kids who leave for reading or speech or ESL NEED that help...they are losing full meaning of your lesson anyway because of their struggles. They are getting what they need when they leave the room for pull-outs. Make your peace with it, find ways to catch them up on what they absolutely need from you-
     
  13. terptoteacher

    terptoteacher Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    1,751
    Likes Received:
    2

    Nov 15, 2008

    I bring my students in on time, but my students who are in ELL or Reading lab right before my specials time are often late. I've mentioned to the two aids running ELL and the reading lab that they need to get my students to specials on time,,,, but....
     
  14. Pisces_Fish

    Pisces_Fish Fanatic

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,735
    Likes Received:
    5

    Nov 15, 2008

    I also have my specials at the end of the day, so we have to switch classes and pack up. I'm usually late, but I do my best. I would never keep certain students or a whole class for specials intentionally. I personally think it's rude.
     
  15. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,558
    Likes Received:
    1,671

    Nov 15, 2008

    I saw the opposite when I subbed in PE. At least one teacher would walk in with five students, yell over to me that they had earned the "reward" of getting out of class, and left without a word. Apparently she did that any time there was a sub in the gym. :eek:
     
  16. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    27,534
    Likes Received:
    6

    Nov 15, 2008

    I have a problem with being late for anything if it can be helped. So if a kid gets sick or there's some other good reason for the class being late, it's one thing.

    But if the teacher simply can't organize his or her time well enough to get the class there, it's unprofessional and rude.
     
  17. trayums

    trayums Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,424
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 15, 2008

    Agreed. I try extremely hard to be organized enough to be able to have the kiddos there on time. I have kids coming in from between 8:30 and 8:50 and we have to be at our specials at 9:00. It's tight and I feel terribly any time we are a few minutes late.
     
  18. frogger

    frogger Devotee

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,057
    Likes Received:
    2

    Nov 15, 2008


    Me too! That's my time for prep and I don't need to keep them at that time.
     
  19. swtteacher

    swtteacher Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 15, 2008

    Oh I never keep kids out of specials--that's my prep time! I can't stand it even if a specials teacher sends a kid back because she thinks they are sick. If they truly are sick/vomiting, that's one thing, but sometimes they just say "My stomach hurts" or something and the teacher will send them back. That irks me!

    I try my best to get to specials on time, but we use the restroom right before specials (per the specials teachers request) and sometimes the kids take too long and we end up a couple minutes late. I try my best NOT to be late since that cuts into MY time as well as the specials teacher.
     
  20. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,075
    Likes Received:
    15

    Nov 15, 2008

    My kids are never late. I have, on occassion, sent a particular child (same one) late. Our specials are in the middle of math (45 minutes before and 45 minutes after- stupid, but not my choice). Sometimes, the certain student will have to finish a problem(s) before they can go to their special. This is because this child will try and wait me out so I give up on her (therefore, she will not have to do it at all). So, she won't be allowed to go until she finished it. Her mother does not make her do any work (homework or study and her mother tells me this) because she feels sorry for her. She "just doen't understand." Well, the kid doesn't do anything because she knows she doesn't have to. I make her.
     
  21. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    6,181
    Likes Received:
    1

    Nov 15, 2008

    Peteacher, could you perhaps send an email out to all of the teachers and explain the situation? I would explain that you teach the rules and team them up right in the beginning and that it is very difficult to deal with late students. Just an idea.
     
  22. runnerss

    runnerss Comrade

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    1

    Nov 15, 2008

    I do my best to get there on time. But on the flip side there are many times where the specials teachers are late because they are trying to get their current class out. We are sitting in the hall for up to 5 minutes. I don't get mad because it is give and take. Things happen.

    I do however keep kids in to make up tests. There is NO extra time built in during the day to makeup tests. NONE!!!! That is the only time that it can be done. I make sure they don't miss PE because of required minutes. I keep them in from art and music. This doesn't mean I don't value art or music. I respect these teachers and what they do. I definetly couldn't do their job. But the fact is that 5th graders have to pass math to go onto the next grade. I have to do what I have to do sometimes.
     
  23. runsw/scissors

    runsw/scissors Phenom

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,492
    Likes Received:
    100

    Nov 15, 2008

    I try to get my kids to specials and pick them up on time. It's not always easy though. Our clocks are not all calibrated, so depending where I am in the building I may be a few minutes late picking them up from music or computers. I only make kids miss specials if they have tests to make up. There is really no other time to do it. Last year I had a problem with my kids not getting to music on time because they wouldn't line up properly or we'd have to return to the room because they were loud, etc. The music teacher and I came up with the plan that if they lose music time because of poor behavior, their music grade would suffer. After all, most of the grade was based on participation, and if they weren't there how could they possibly participate. There were a couple times when we made it to the room late and the music teacher had already started the lesson. The kids were floored when they saw her teaching to and empty room (and stunned when they saw their music grades were low B's rather than A's.)
     
  24. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,154
    Likes Received:
    1

    Nov 15, 2008

    That is priceless!! :lol:
     
  25. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    4,212
    Likes Received:
    8

    Nov 16, 2008

    At my school, kids can't miss specials. Sometimes I'll use this as an opportunity to talk to kids quickly (the rest of the class will go in the music classroom and I'll pull one child aside to talk to them for a minute). Or, if someone isn't feeling well I'll take them to the office before PE to take their temperature (before they start running around!). Besides little things like that, I never pull kids out of specials!
     
  26. Crzy_ArtTeacher

    Crzy_ArtTeacher Comrade

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 16, 2008

    As being a specialist I find we often get treated as truly a SPECIAL, as a subject that can be taken away. Also, some teachers are consistently late with getting their students TO or FROM my class.

    Just the other day I'm waiting for my Kindergarten teacher to pick up her 25 kids and then I have my first grade waiting for me to let them in to my class out in the hallway. This teacher is very sweet but always late on getting her kids. I know there are inconsistencies with the clocks but being five minutes late drastically impacts my transition time (this especially mattered when I was traveling around the school on a cart!).

    I'm glad this thread was started because I've felt this frustration for a while and now I know it's a common thing.

    Also the music teacher teaching the empty classroom is hilarious, I LOVED THAT! :lol:
     
  27. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,959
    Likes Received:
    2,116

    Nov 16, 2008


    Take the clock issue to your building 'steering' committee if you have one...(or to the administration)...it's important that all are on the same 'time schedule'.;)
     
  28. shouldbeasleep

    shouldbeasleep Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,233
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 16, 2008

    I hear a lot of the same excuses for keeping kids out of specials that I hear from certain teachers at my school.

    "I needed so-and-so to make up the work. I won't send a class until they are quiet. My clock is slow."

    How would you like it if the Specials teacher did the same to you? "I'm not sending Joey back until he runs the laps correctly." You'd be missing valuable time with him when he shows up halfway through your lesson.

    Our PE teacher teaches two classes during the same period. If one teacher is late ("I'm not leaving until my lesson is finished."), then the other class has to sit there on the floor waiting.

    There aren't any good excuses for being late or for sending kids in halfway through Specials. (Well, maybe the throwing up, but then they aren't going to Specials if they're sick anyway.)
     
  29. sundrop

    sundrop Cohort

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 17, 2008

    I have felt some of these same frustrations. There is one teacher whose class was always a good 5 minutes late or more. I have started going to get the students from the classroom as it is just down the hall. The teacher is always so surprised that it is Computer time already! Duh, same time every Wed. and Fri.

    I also have several classes where students come from two different classrooms. They never arrive at the same time, so I have to sit and wait for several minutes until they are all there before giving the directions for the day. Otherwise I would have to repeat the same thing several times.

    Oh well, I guess there could be far worse things to deal with.
     
  30. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2003
    Messages:
    6,809
    Likes Received:
    190

    Nov 17, 2008

    I have been in both spots. I remember my days as a sub in all the specials & hated having late classes (I really hate to be late in life in general). We did have problems with clocks & when I was the classroom teacher I always tried to be mindful of it.
     
  31. PEteacher07

    PEteacher07 Cohort

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    537
    Likes Received:
    8

    Nov 21, 2008

    So do you think I am justified in sending the kids back to class? I am sure the teachers will be mad, but I am just sick of it and I feel like I am taken advantage of.
     
  32. monsieurteacher

    monsieurteacher Aficionado

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    66

    Nov 21, 2008

    PETeacher, I understand where you're coming from. I agree with you that your class should be considered just as important as any other class.

    My question is what is sending the kid back to class doing for that child? Are you punishing the child to prove a point to the teacher? That would be my only concern about it... but I may be misunderstanding you... feel free to clarify.
     
  33. Crzy_ArtTeacher

    Crzy_ArtTeacher Comrade

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 21, 2008

    See it's a tough situation because by sending the kid back to class that little guy misses out on his fun gym time. It's not his fault he's being kept. I agree it sends a message to the teacher about being on time but the one who gets punished is the student.

    It is a very frustrating thing and at the moment I'm at a loss for what to do too.
     
  34. agdamity

    agdamity Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    481

    Nov 21, 2008

    I think it depends on the situation. If the student is late because he was finishing work he should have done prior to coming to class, then maybe he could sit on the side and watch. Sometimes losing out on your favorite class is a motivator to do what you need to to get there in time. If it's another reason (just arriving at school, been in a pull-out, etc.) they should be allowed to participate. I have specials early in the morning, so I often have students trickle to specials late because they are just arriving at school.
     
  35. PEteacher07

    PEteacher07 Cohort

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    537
    Likes Received:
    8

    Nov 21, 2008

    I don't want to punish the student, but what else can I do? My principal has discussed it with the teachers and they continue to do it to us. Today, I had several students come in with 15 minutes left in class. At that point, the child has missed any announcements I have made, instruction, warmup activities, and the division of teams for whatever the main game is.

    I see your point, but then I have to quiz the child and find out what they were doing. My gym is disconnected from the school and the teachers don't walk to students out to the gym. They just show up so at any random moment I have all these latecomer children trickling in.
     
  36. BioAngel

    BioAngel Science Teacher - Grades 3-6

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,644
    Likes Received:
    108

    Nov 22, 2008

    I think it just has to make us all more flexible. I know that I'll be missing about 10 to 15 minutes from my science class after our school assembly--- have to leave late sometimes from the assembly, wade through the whole student body, get books and binders, get settled, hand in homework, use the bathroom, etc. I've learned instead of getting annoyed that I just have to go with it and I've modified my lessons to work better.

    You may want to try writing down directions on an easel--- that way your students can get into the habit of checking THAT instead of asking you what is going on. I write everything up on my whiteboard or on a powerpoint that's projected and now just tell my students "Look up front". Saves my voice and sanity.

    What really bugs me though is when I hear from certain music/art teachers at my school that THEIR class is more important than science. One of my students wasn't able to do a retest of a quiz she failed because of her dance teacher telling her she could NOT under any circumstances come to take it after school (because she had to work on her dance routine)--- would have taken 20 minutes tops. That got me really upset--- the child wants to do both, I'm giving the retest on one day and that's it. I don't understand why the teacher can't support BOTH subjects. :(
     
  37. myKroom

    myKroom Habitué

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 22, 2008

    I have the opposite problem!! My P.E. teacher arrives 5 minutes late and brings them back AT LEAST 5 minutes early!!! My specials are my prep and it really ticks me off when I miss at least 10 minutes of my 30 minute prep because he can't read a watch!

    I think part of the problem is that he doesn't like OR understand how to deal with the little ones! NOT MY PROBLEM...you took the job dude!!

    Sorry had to rant...all better now!:)
     
  38. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2002
    Messages:
    18,938
    Likes Received:
    682

    Nov 22, 2008

    We had a problem with clock synchronization, too. We got radar-controlled clocks and it solved that one.

    I wouldn't repeat the instructions in PE class. I'd let the teacher and kids know that those who arrive late will do calisthenics or run laps.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. TeacherNY,
  2. katejames,
  3. sevenplus,
  4. RichardRichieRich
Total: 264 (members: 4, guests: 233, robots: 27)
test