Secretary of Education Interview on Opening

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Mr.history, Jul 10, 2020.

  1. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,055
    Likes Received:
    1,878

    Jul 19, 2020

    Again, I'm working very hard to maintain my professionalism. I've been at this for a long time. The past few years have been challenging to say the least, not because of the job requirements--I'm eager to accept those challenges--but because of the increasing trend of teacher-bashing from the public and from other teachers. I'm weary of feeling the need to defend myself to "colleagues" who don't know me or what I bring to the table.

    1. Sorry to shock you! In no way do I think it is okay for teachers to not be doing their job. However, it is not.my.business what others are doing or not; that is the job of my administrators. I don't have time to worry about checking up on everyone to be sure that they are meeting my standards of how much work they should be doing.

    2. Never said I was making things up on the go. Never have and never will. I'm sorry that you don't feel I'm being effective, although it's hard to judge my effectiveness as a teacher when I'm a stranger on an internet forum.
    I spend a lot of time planning--once I know what I need to plan for. At this point, I know that when we return in September, it will either be: all remote or a hybrid model--there are about 4 of those up for consideration, or a full return "with safety protocols"--which may include smaller class sizes and modified school days. At first, our Education Minister was pushing for a hybrid start for the first month, now, he is pushing a full return with reduced class sizes, but there is no funding for the additional teachers or spaces that this will entail. We have been told that final decisions will be made the first week of August, although that may be delayed. If we are physically in the classroom, we don't know what protocols will be regarding technology, handing in work, sharing materials, group work, class and school library, phys ed? Once I know what I'm prepping for, I'm good to go. We may have new math standards in September, but we may not. The change is significant, so before I plan, I need to know what I'm planning for.

    3. I had ongoing feedback from my students and their parents during our 3 months of remote learning, and incorporated it as much as possible-- doing my job which includes differentiating to meet the needs of my students. When/if we need to return to remote teaching at any point during the year, I'll look back on that feedback to be sure that it's fresh in my mind. Constantly reflecting on what's working and what isn't is part of what I do daily.

    You do you and I'll do me. As long as my students, their parents and my administrators are happy with the work that I do, I'm good.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  2. CaliforniaRPCV

    CaliforniaRPCV Companion

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    194

    Jul 19, 2020

    I'm not a CPA. I spent 35 years being an IT guy. I did take paid vacation at times to study for certification tests of one sort or another. And paid out of pocket for the study materials. And then paid the fee to take the test, with more vacation time to take it. It happens all the time across professions. That includes teaching. Nobody is paying my expenses for a career change (Good thing too since it's looking like a flop o_O). I'd put bets on any career change time and expenses to be out of pocket as a rule.
     
    a2z likes this.
  3. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    1,914

    Jul 19, 2020

    I don’t think she was talking about paying for a career change. I think she was talking about having to use vacation time off from a job to do that currently held job.
     
    stargirl and RainStorm like this.
  4. RainStorm

    RainStorm Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    4,339
    Likes Received:
    788

    Jul 19, 2020

    You are exactly correct, bella84. I was very confused by CaliforniaRPCV's reply. I was talking about using vacation time off from a job to do that currently held job. My comment had nothing to do with changing jobs, or moving up the in a job. Thank you for helping to clarify that.
     
  5. CaliforniaRPCV

    CaliforniaRPCV Companion

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    194

    Jul 19, 2020

    I was addressing two things which are aspects of the same kind of thing.

    YES, ABSOLUTELY! People, across professions, use paid vacation to further career and competance. "I'm not a CPA. I spent 35 years being an IT guy. I did take paid vacation at times to study for certification tests of one sort or another. And paid out of pocket for the study materials. And then paid the fee to take the test, with more vacation time to take it."

    To be clear, the certification tests I was talking about were for IT related stuff. The company did pay, sometimes, but not always. I did pay out of pocket, and take paid vacation at times to increase my competence. It also increased my marketability to the direct benefit of the company, at my expense. I don't think that is uncommon.

    The other thing, paying for your own education, just to start, or for a career change... Well, that's always there for everyone.
     
  6. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    1,914

    Jul 19, 2020

    I don’t think you and Rainstorm are talking about the same thing. Using vacation time to further one’s own career and to actually do one’s job are two different things. I don’t know many people outside of education who spend time working on assignments for their job while they are on official vacation. I think that’s what Rainstorm was getting at. Doing your job does not automatically equate to furthering your career. And there should be no expectation that one does their job while they’re on vacation from that job.
     
  7. CaliforniaRPCV

    CaliforniaRPCV Companion

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    194

    Jul 19, 2020

    It's arguable. When your job is to prepare a proposal, and they need a resume with some certification you end up paying for with money and vacation, I think that qualifies.
     
  8. CaliforniaRPCV

    CaliforniaRPCV Companion

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    194

    Jul 19, 2020

    You know what? It isn't even arguable. There are tons of people that are running hard, burning their money and vacation just to stay employed. It isn't at all restricted to education.
     
  9. whizkid

    whizkid Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    595

    Jul 19, 2020

    Speaking of certifications, is anyone adding any type of certifications to their resume?
     
  10. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    1,914

    Jul 19, 2020

    All I’m saying is that I don’t know any... Every professional level employee who I know personally is on vacation when they take vacation. Most of them are literally on vacation, traveling, when on vacation, but the ones who don’t enjoy travel find other things to do. All but one make a lot more money and have a flexible schedule and work from home opportunities too.

    It doesn’t really matter. All professions have pros and cons. But I don’t see a problem with calling out a teaching con when there is one. Teaching is less flexible and more demanding (at times) than a lot of other jobs, for a lot less money. It is what it is.
     
    stargirl likes this.
  11. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4,303
    Likes Received:
    880

    Jul 20, 2020

    I'll be able to add Social Studies, English, Middle School Science, and Earth Science to my certificate, but I'm still debating whether I want to add all four. I may leave English out. I'm also looking into taking one credit to be eligible to add theater.
     
  12. CaliforniaRPCV

    CaliforniaRPCV Companion

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    194

    Jul 20, 2020

    I'm having a hard time letting this go. In IT, in engineering, in many professions, there is a combination of things that can and do produce stressful work environments. "at will", meaning you can be let go at any time. "Exempt" from many labor laws. "Salaried worker", meaning you may fill out a timesheet reflecting the 12 hour days you've been working, and even if you are working for a client that pays for every hour, you are going to see 8 hours pay - the company gets the rest, thank you; 'cause, you know, you are a professional after all, so suck it up. Add all those things together and that high pay doesn't look so good if you look at it from an hourly point of view.

    Flexibility can be a perk sometimes. You might have some choice about where in the day those 12 hours are spent. Sometimes you are going to have to split that up so you can patch that server at 2AM when the system it's in is at low utilization. Or there is a long job running that is new, or tends toward random failures and has to be watched like a hawk and faults analyzed/fixed/job restarted whenever.

    If you are developing something new, a new unemployment benefits system or video game, add deadlines to all of that.

    Now, you might say that sounds like a surge situation. It is. I've had those surge situations last a couple of years at a time.

    For all that a starting employee will get 2 weeks paid vacation. A decade or so could move that up to a month. Depends on the company and if you can stick around that long. But taking that vacation isn't always mandatory, and I've known people that have let vacation slide because they've feared they would not have a job when they came back. Or given it up because they just needed to get the job done. I've never had a job where vacation wasn't a "use it or lose it" thing. Build up to your max and the rest goes back to the company. And sick time is vacation time.

    I do have to admit there have been a few years when it was just a pretty steady 9 hour day, with just a week or month panic once in a while.

    Now, I've spent some time whining about all of that. But I can see someone else looking at that and saying "I wish I had it so good! I'm working my nether parts off so my kids can have such a great opportunity. By the way, what's paid vacation?". I get it. I respect the feelings and the facts behind them.

    For any job, there are pros, there are cons. And there are misconceptions about any given job or profession. Yes, it is what it is. But what is it? The grass looks greener on the other side of the hill and all that. If it's honest work, I am going to respect the effort and sacrifice of the person doing it.
     
    a2z likes this.
  13. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    6,185
    Likes Received:
    2,115

    Jul 20, 2020

    Here are the types of people I know:
    1. I know the group you describe above.
    2. I know people who have to find places without cell service or go out of country in order to not have to do work while on vacation.
    3. I know people who are always on calls or have to drag their work with them on vacation because they have to work over vacation. Sometimes a lot and sometimes a little.
    4. I know professionals who get their vacation when their plant close down. They are professionals who work in a factory, but are engineers. They also only get two weeks to start and don't move up to 3 weeks until 5+ years.
    5. I know professionals who can't take their vacations when they ask so when their kids or their spouse (who is a teacher has off) they can't get the time.
    6. I know professionals who have to take some of their two weeks off a year to take certification tests (or study) because their profession is currently certification crazy.
    7. I can go on and on.
    Some of these people are paid a lot of money. Some, if you took away pay for the time off that teachers get, you will find they are paid the same or less with worse benefits than the teachers in my area. Plus, many of these people all work over time with no extra pay because they are salary.

    Some have work from home opportunities when it is not COVID time. Some have to travel for their job never know where they will be from week to week. Some work incredibly long hours. Some have some flexibility with when they can come in and leave the office (on paper) but in reality that flexibility isn't what it seems. Some have it great and good for them. Many have unrealistic expectations because their job is to make money for the companies they work for so the stress is high. Many are doing the jobs of what used to be several people because during the economic downturn the companies reduced the labor force and the work still had to be done.

    I can't say ALL or even most people I know have a cushy job that is 9-5:30 type job with flexibility, top benefits, lots of vacation time that is always their own, etc. I just don't.
     
  14. MntnHiker

    MntnHiker Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2019
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    100

    Jul 20, 2020

    Summer is not a paid vacation for teachers. Teachers are paid for nine months of work. Some places, they literally do not get paychecks in the summer. In other districts, you are given the option of spreading out your nine months of pay over 12 months for budgeting purposes.

    So no, I do not know of hardly any other profession or job where the EXPECTATION by the general public (and apparently some folks on here) is that you should be working during non-work hours where you are NOT PAID. If you had an hourly job let's say working as a cashier (which I have done, by the way), would you be OK with your boss saying "Susie, I'm going to need you to clock out now but we still need extra help so you will have to work three hours tonight unpaid." First of all that would be illegal. Second of all, no one would be OK with that. So yes, this is what it sounds like when the EXPECTATION by people is that teachers should just keep working during months they are NOT PAID. I find it interesting too that this expectation is held of teaching when it has historically been a majority-female profession.

    Do some teachers CHOOSE to work on weekends, summer break? Of course. That is their choice and they should get that choice. That should not be the expectation. There is a serious problem with the "teacher martyr" mentality that sets teachers back in general when it comes to the bargaining table. Look, if you choose to do work when you are not paid, that is great. That is your prerogative. But in no other profession that I can think of do people lay themselves down as some martyr and brag about how much work they are willing to do unpaid. That is ridiculous. Teachers are educated professionals just like any other who deserve to be compensated for their time working and it is frankly insulting to suggest otherwise. Why should we (again, historically a majority-female profession) be expected to just work for free and insulted if we choose to respect our contract and work to it? No, that is absurd.

    I have stated my opinion, my opinion on this will absolutely not change, so I will not be responding to comments or replies on this. You have all stated your opinions as you have right to do. This is mine and it's non-negotiable with me.
     
    stargirl likes this.
  15. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    1,914

    Jul 20, 2020

    I get all of that, all of what you're both saying. I understand that there are many people in those situations. I'm not arguing that. I'm not at all suggesting that teachers have it worse than anyone else. I'm just saying that I don't personally know anyone in the situations you've described. I'm thinking of my family and closest friends, who are in the fields of engineering, design, research and development, events, public/non-profit work, and corporate business innovation. Every single one of them have a true vacation when they are on vacation (which is all that Rainstorm was suggesting here. I'm not really sure how or why this conversation took a turn), with most of them traveling and disconnecting from the world, especially work. Again, there are pros and cons to jobs in all fields. I certainly put in more hours, with a less flexible schedule, significantly lower pay, no annual bonus or option to work from home, during the school year that most of the people I just referred to. But I have a reliable pension to look forward to, decent health benefits, an opportunity to do work that I am passionate about, and the reward of seeing how my hard work has made a difference in someone's life. They can't all say that. For most of them, work is just a daily grind that they do for a pretty decent paycheck. Pros and cons to any job.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
    RainStorm and MissCeliaB like this.
  16. CaliforniaRPCV

    CaliforniaRPCV Companion

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    194

    Jul 20, 2020

    I am not aware of the general public expectation that teachers work unpaid hours. My perception of the general public perceptions are:
    - teachers are not well paid
    - teachers get long breaks especially over summer
    I've seen this discussed here, and "in the general public" where I am, as compensating factors. Pros and cons.

    In reality, I don't think people do a very good job of walking in others shoes. People have a tendency to bemoan their own lives and work and idealize others. I don't think teachers are any more immune to that than any other.
     
  17. CaliforniaRPCV

    CaliforniaRPCV Companion

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    194

    Jul 20, 2020

    You seriously do not get a two or three week period over the year where you believe you are not expected to work?
     
  18. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    1,914

    Jul 20, 2020

    I never said that, nor did I suggest or imply it. I absolutely have time off during the summer where I'm not being paid to work, nor am I expected to work. It's not technically paid vacation, though, for the record. It's non-contracted time. When I am expected or asked to work during the summer, I am compensated for it, although it's usually a very low rate of compensation, given the work required and my level of experience and education.

    That aside, you're right.. Another pro of being a teacher, in addition to those I listed in my previous post, is extended time off during the summer. I don't disagree. I believe this point about working during vacation was brought up by Rainstorm after DamienJasper made the assertation that any teacher who is not working for free this summer is not dedicated to their job (I acknowledge that those were not his exact words, but that was the sentiment). When this implication was made, it was noted that other professionals are not expected to work during their time off from work (their vacation time), and that it is unreasonable to expect this of teachers.

    This is so true. And it's why I don't usually make judgments of other people's work lives without directly talking with them about it. My comments in the previous posts are based on conversations with my closest family and friends, in which they have openly acknowledged that I work harder than them, with fewer perks, during much of the year. That's not going to be everyone's situation, obviously, but that's what it is in my circle of people.
     
    stargirl, RainStorm and otterpop like this.
  19. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,156
    Likes Received:
    1,759

    Jul 20, 2020

    There are many, many differences in public perception, ranging from A) teachers work so hard, I could never do that, they should be paid way more to Z) teachers are a bunch of complainers who are overpaid and are ungrateful of their health insurance, retirement benefits, and time off. I’ve certainly encountered the whole spectrum. However, for the people I know personally, I’d say our job is more stressful than other jobs at the same pay grade or often even higher pay grades. Nurses get paid easily double what we make, and I’d say our job is about on par with that, stress wise and education wise.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
    stargirl and bella84 like this.
  20. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,596
    Likes Received:
    2,702

    Jul 20, 2020

    I am doing next to nothing right now in terms of planning for next year. I don’t have enough information to begin planning anything, so I will wait until I am more informed. I have enough experience to have basics worked out, and that’s good enough for me right now.

    I am afraid to return to in-person learning. I am high risk, and I live with someone who is high risk, and I have extended family members and friends who are high risk. I truly believe that some people in my very small circle of friends and family will die if we return to in-person instruction too early; maybe I will be one of those people who doesn’t survive. I am in the process of making a will and trust for my very small children. I am also using this summer to do things with my family, especially my kids. We have been making a backyard garden, having daytime slumber parties, having “picnics” in the living room, doing craft projects, snuggling up and watching movies together, and camping while maintaining appropriate social distancing, of course. We wear our masks. We haven’t been to a grocery store or restaurant since mid-March. We haven’t spent time with friends, and my kids haven’t played with their cousins. We are so locked down because I am so fearful that this thing is going to kill me and my children will be left motherless. Excuse the F out of me if my focus is on my own kids right now instead of on someone else’s. I’ve spent my career focused on everyone else. My kids deserve to have what might be one last summer with their mother.
     
  21. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,909
    Likes Received:
    687

    Jul 21, 2020

    I am very happy that my teacher's union released a statement that remote learning is the only way that we can be safe and begin the school year.
    They are also fighting for teachers to have time in the beginning of the year to plan effective remote learning and meet with students/families (virtually.) They said that we can transition to a hybrid model and then a full return once safety benchmarks have been met (in relation to COVID cases in the county and state.)

    My superintendent sent us an email saying that we will have 6ft of social distancing, masks required for all except students w/ health exemptions, PPE provided, etc. I am not really sure what will happen.
     
  22. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,909
    Likes Received:
    687

    Jul 21, 2020

    I’m really sorry to read this and I hope your school begins remotely. I was wondering if you would maybe qualify for the families first Coronavirus act.
     
  23. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,156
    Likes Received:
    1,759

    Jul 21, 2020

    I’m also high risk. If families are given a choice, teachers should be too.
     
    whizkid, Ms.Holyoke and bella84 like this.

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. ahmadabdollahi,
  2. Jessican123,
  3. miss-m
Total: 351 (members: 3, guests: 327, robots: 21)
test