School supply shopping

Discussion in 'Teacher Time Out' started by Aces, Jul 29, 2018.

  1. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    1,109

    Aug 2, 2018

    This. I agree with this!

    My private school collects all of the unused school supplies at the end of the year and saves them for the 40% of students who attend on financial assistance. The idea is that the parents are already paying tuition, so they’ve already contributed to their educations.
     
  2. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    1,173

    Aug 2, 2018

    I could not agree more with this statement!

    One poster commented that he asked students how much they paid for their clothes. I find that so incredibly insensitive and inappropriate.
     
  3. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,745
    Likes Received:
    1,668

    Aug 2, 2018

    You grew up around poor people whose families worked in a severely regimented environment - the military - where certain choices would have negative ramifications on your parent's job.
     
  4. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    1,109

    Aug 2, 2018

    Are public schools not regimented?
     
  5. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,468
    Likes Received:
    2,485

    Aug 2, 2018

    I actually think we have a very similar opinion on this topic.
     
    MrsC and mathmagic like this.
  6. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,745
    Likes Received:
    1,668

    Aug 2, 2018

    Again, you don't address my comment and deflect.
     
  7. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    1,109

    Aug 2, 2018

    No, I heard you. You just refuse to acknowledge my counterpoint and “counter” with “deflection!”
     
  8. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    1,109

    Aug 2, 2018

    And wouldn’t incarceration or public intoxication or spousal abuse or <insert other nefarious thing if caught> have negative ramifications on someone’s job, regardless if they grew up in a military family or not?
     
  9. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    1,109

    Aug 2, 2018

    Although I’ve not done this, but why is that inappropriate? People ask other people all the time how much things they’ve bought costs. For instance, I bought a $27,000 Honda Civic last year in June. Many of my students asked me how much it cost, as did some of my coworkers, as did my friends. I also had a student comment on how expensive my shoes looked even though I bought them on sale for $30. Why is that offensive?

    This is something that is commonplace in our society.
     
  10. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,745
    Likes Received:
    1,668

    Aug 2, 2018

    Your comment - I know all poor people because I grew up poor.

    My comment - your military family situation is unlike many other poor families because the military has very strong consequences for bad money management and other negative life choices that are beyond what many jobs will keep track of. Military family - ya' know. ;)

    Your comment - about public schools - deflection - then don't other jobs care about extreme crimes?

    You are really reaching to put yourself in the shoes of generational poverty. I can guarantee while you were poor and maybe very poor, your experience is nothing the same.
     
    bella84 and RaiderFan87 like this.
  11. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    1,173

    Aug 2, 2018

    You're an adult. Other adults asked you how much you paid for particular items. As an adult, you could have chosen to either respond to their question or say that you'd rather not disclose that info. Additionally, kids are curious, so that's probably why your high school students asked what you paid for (insert item).

    The poster, on the other hand, asked children how much they paid for particular items. He's the adult in charge; therefore, he should know what is/isn't an appropriate question to ask a kid. Frankly, though, it's none of his business. Plus, most kids have no clue what their parents paid for a particular item.

    Do you see the difference?
     
  12. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    1,109

    Aug 2, 2018

    Did I say I know *all* poor people?

    Yay, another military brat! <high fives>

    I am the first person in my family to ever go to college and have “wealth”. Everyone else in my family struggles to make ends meet and does nothing to better themselves or their situations. They are all in the working class and very rarly make above minimum wage.
     
  13. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    1,109

    Aug 2, 2018

    I agree it’s none of his business and the students may or may not know the price. That’s fair, but I don’t think he meant it to be rude or offensive. What if he was genuinely curious because he wanted to buy the item for himself? I’ve had students ask me where I bought a shirt, for example, and it’s price because they wanted one. Wouldn’t that be appropriate in that context? Just like I’ve asked students where they bought things and for how much because I was contemplating purchasing the good.
     
  14. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    1,109

    Aug 2, 2018

    I think it would be inappropriate if the student had tattered clothes or they looked inexpensive, then that would be unacceptable. But, if they were wearing name-brand clothes for instance, I *might* inquire how much and gasp at the price just for casual conversation purposes and have a laugh with the student after I commented how I could never afford such a thing on my teaching salary!
     
  15. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    1,173

    Aug 2, 2018

    It's highly unlikely that he was asking because he wanted to purchase the clothes for himself. He has said in several other posts that he solely shops at consignment stores for his clothing. Plus, he said that he knew that his "routine questioning" is politically incorrect.
     
    bella84, a2z and RaiderFan87 like this.
  16. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    1,109

    Aug 2, 2018

    Oh, I didn’t read that.
     
  17. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    1,180

    Aug 2, 2018

    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  18. Joyful!

    Joyful! Habitué

    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
    Messages:
    878
    Likes Received:
    208

    Aug 2, 2018

    Wow. We moved from "I just saved money at Wal-Mart and I hope you can too" over to the "poor should pay, rich should pay, school should pay, government should pay, you don't get it at all" conversation.
    Thanks for the tip on the savings. :) Thanks for the reminder that we can all have different views. No matter how you feel, the fact remains that more is needed and often teachers supply it. Right or wrong, I will always keep spare supplies for those who forget their own and for those who run out during the day, and for those whose parents can't/won't supply things for their students.
    I grew up in an upper middle income home, and I recall my parents buying school supplies every year. I don't know if there was a list or if they just loved Crayola products. I live in a regular area (meaning there are lower, middle and upper income homes across the region) that does tend toward making the list of median homes that are higher in price. We have Title I schools, charter schools, and private schools. We are multi-cultural. My area puts out a myriad of supply lists that you can find in the front of every box store and Staples. People arrive in droves and buy out the supplies. People also are encouraged to donate to causes filling up back packs for kids in need. I never recall the school supplying every consumable item. As to paper towels, ziplocks, wipes and other housekeeping consumables, I feel those should be abundant and found in the school's supply closet. No matter who purchases, I do think students need to be taught/reminded that we are to be good stewards of our supplies. I think we need to model that.
    Also, this weekend Staples has their teacher gifts.
     
    bella84 and Aces like this.
  19. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    1,173

    Aug 2, 2018

    Go to page 2 of this thread.
     
  20. Aces

    Aces Habitué

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Messages:
    860
    Likes Received:
    482

    Aug 2, 2018

    I have to agree here my school is a regional high school and ewe get students from all over. To be honest I spent close to $700 last year in fabrics and things for the theater department. Out of my own pocket that I didn't and probably won't get reimbursed for. We have a wonderful theater guild if I do say so myself, but it's not because the school focuses too much attention on it.
     
  21. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    1,109

    Aug 2, 2018

    I will admit. I kind of derailed this thread...

    Another concern of mine is that this will negatively impact the funding of various school districts. I know some public schoolteachers who pay several hundred dollars for students per year for school supplies because their parents refuse to buy them any. What are teachers and school districts going to do now? Where does Governor Brown think the money is going to magically come from? This is going to add millions and millions of additional costs that I feel are unnecessary. Sure, provide Chromebooks and expensive graphing calculators and rulers for activities, but foot the bill for *everything*? That just isn’t tenable.
     
  22. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,861
    Likes Received:
    605

    Aug 2, 2018

    No, I would still find it inappropriate. When I was speaking about the expensive basketball shoes, my students were showing me the website and were telling me how much the shoes cost. I did not ask and I wouldn't feel comfortable asking.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
    YoungTeacherGuy likes this.
  23. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,861
    Likes Received:
    605

    Aug 2, 2018

    I agree 100% with this post. At the beginning of the year, my school gave kids pencil cases, folders and notebooks. Some kids took good care of these supplies while the majority lost them within a week. :( It's a difficult situation and I'm not sure how to have students buy in to their education.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  24. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,920
    Likes Received:
    1,109

    Aug 2, 2018

    That’s okay for you to not feel appropriate doing that and that’s your right. There’s nothing wrong with that. I, myself, have no qualms asking a student if I know them well enough and they are middle class and above. That’s just my personal feeling on that.
     
  25. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,485
    Likes Received:
    1,026

    Aug 2, 2018

    What are you using to determine if your students are middle class or above?
     
    Ms.Holyoke likes this.
  26. RaiderFan87

    RaiderFan87 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2018
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    31

    Aug 2, 2018

    Duh, TrademarkTer! Obviously, if kids go to his prestigious private school, they must be middle/upper class (insert eye rolling emoji)!
     
  27. Joyful!

    Joyful! Habitué

    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
    Messages:
    878
    Likes Received:
    208

    Aug 2, 2018

    I guess you are trying to be silly here? (I hope so, because otherwise that would be bordering on snarky and unkind.)

    I'm wondering if you are aware of the disparity in incomes in many private, parochial, charter and other non-public schools. (I know charter is technically public school where I live, but it is not in practice.)

    Some of us teach in the private sector and we do serve students whose families work in every level of the economy. I would never assume that everyone in private school is well to do. In fact, that is often not the case. We do have some families whose parents have experienced financial success (if you measure things that way) and we have others who need to work 2 or 3 jobs to keep their child in the private school of their choice. Private schools can be as diverse as any other school community.

    (Oh, and for the record, I am in the camp of folks who feel asking children about the prices of their belongings is not appropriate. For me, I think we can teach children about sacrifice, financial budgeting, priorities etc in another way. If their parents spend their entire paycheck on the fancy shoes or idevice, that is their choice, and often not the choice of the child you are asking. Additionally, you may be causing a child to feel like they need to lie rather than disclosing that they received the item through charitable donations or dumpster diving. By asking students about the price we are teaching them that value comes from the price paid, not the actual usefulness or longevity of an item. I prefer not to feed into the materialism that is rampant in society.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
    a2z, YoungTeacherGuy and Ms.Holyoke like this.
  28. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    968

    Aug 2, 2018

    Doesn’t anyone read Ruby Payne’s work on poverty anymore? Still good stuff for understanding the mindset of poverty. I grew up in a high poverty area, and I still live in one. My school is high poverty. Understanding the mindset of people who live in poverty is important. (Likewise, it is important to understand the mindset for middle class and wealthy students, too.)
     
    MrsC and bella84 like this.
  29. Been There

    Been There Habitué

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    516

    Aug 2, 2018

    This tired debate reminds me of what I've seen some students do to excel in school. In the past, I've taught Asian students in a Chinese-bilingual middle school program. I recall every student having their own pencil box filled with everything they needed: pencil eraser, pens, highlighter, ruler, protractor, compass, correction ribbon, mechanical pencils and extra lead and much more. They also had their own backpack, binder and folders. Many of their parents were on welfare and often worked menial jobs from morning to night. (Yeah, I was curious and had my personal motive for asking them about it!) I saw the same well-equipped students when I travelled abroad in Asia which seemed to suggest that it was a "cultural thing" which begins when young children first begin attending school - travelers can witness this school preparedness throughout Asia. The poorest parents in America would be considered wealthy in comparison to those struggling abroad to make ends meet under deplorable conditions. I applaud those parents who understand the value of their children's education and make sacrifices to ensure their academic success.

    BTW, I've sat through a PD session on Ruby Payne, but didn't learned much I didn't already know!
     
  30. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,861
    Likes Received:
    605

    Aug 2, 2018

    ^
    The fact remains that some parents do not buy their children school supplies for whatever reason. Schools need to have a backup option for these students because we cannot force children to bring in supplies. I find it ridiculous that so many teachers need to beg for donations and supplies that the school will not provide. I remember the story where a man gave $$ to a teacher on an airplane to buy supplies. It was so kind and generous, but why should that be necessary in the United States?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
    YoungTeacherGuy likes this.
  31. Been There

    Been There Habitué

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    516

    Aug 2, 2018

    I recall once having students who were envious of another's Hello Kitty bookbag, pencil box, keychain, and other school supplies. After finding out where the student had purchased her HK stuff, they went home and pleaded with their parents to take them to the HK store. You know how most parents will eventually give in to what their kids want! It wasn't long before most of the girls and even a few boys were proud owners of their own HK paraphernalia and I didn't have to spend a cent! Lesson learned: it pays to be persistent.
     
  32. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    1,173

    Aug 3, 2018

    This post speaks to my soul. You hit the nail on the head.
     
  33. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,669
    Likes Received:
    1,106

    Aug 3, 2018

    Governor Brown may very well have to work budgetary magic, but, for reasons that I've already sketched out, *he* doesn't have much choice - not unless he means the state either to relitigate half a century's worth of lost cases or risk contempt of court. The rulings in the various cases have been pretty consistent, irrespective of district or ideology; both the principle of stare decisis and Brown's own well-documented pragmatism point in the direction of the state playing the hand that court after court has dealt.
     
    a2z likes this.
  34. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,745
    Likes Received:
    1,668

    Aug 3, 2018

    But you have to agree that not everyone in poverty is the same. I grew up poor and in a family whose grandparents were poor. However, the mindset in my family was very different from many other families of generational poverty. Luckily we did not live in the neighborhoods where the majority were very poor. We had other schools in the district, which was mid-sized, where you had large groups of people from generational poverty and people brought in from cities that had even worse generational poverty. These were very different environments.

    So, while I wondered if bills would be paid, if my parents would have the money to go to the doctor when they were injured or ill, if we would have the money for new shoes when they no longer fit, or if there would be enough food to fill us, I never lived in hopelessness of poverty because we believed love trumps all and by making good choices you can overcome poverty. A lot of areas have lost hope.
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  35. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,861
    Likes Received:
    605

    Aug 3, 2018

    So schools should just WAIT for students to bring supplies? What about for students who never bring in supplies or take months to bring in supplies? Should they go months without an education until they do? Should they sit out of projects that require colored pencils until they do? Like I said, some parents do not provide school supplies for whatever reason.

    I hope you can see how a Hello Kitty backpack is different from essential school supplies.
     
    dgpiaffeteach likes this.
  36. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,745
    Likes Received:
    1,668

    Aug 3, 2018

    I guess my question is, what does a colored pencil have to do with learning needed information unless it is art? Sure, color can aid in learning by helping students denote an ocean from land or trigger memories based on color, but for generations, people learned without having colored pencils. Amazingly, many still remember that information better than kids who now use colored pencils.

    Are all of these required supplies really needed for student learning or is it a misplaced theory being applied as necessity?
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  37. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,861
    Likes Received:
    605

    Aug 3, 2018

    I'm sure elementary teachers can speak more to this, but color coding can help students better learn and understand math as well. When we were studying parallel lines cut by a transversal, I had my students use colored pencils to color in the congruent angles, which helped a lot of kids visualize the concept.
     
  38. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,350
    Likes Received:
    990

    Aug 3, 2018

    I stand by my previous post. It's a shame people get offended so easily.
    I don't care who buys the students school supplies. All I know is the teachers shouldn't be expected to. If they WANT to that's their business. Nobody should be telling teachers to spend their own money on that stuff.
     
  39. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,745
    Likes Received:
    1,668

    Aug 3, 2018

    We shaded congruent angles with our regular pencils. The teacher shaded it on the board with white chalk.

    I didn't say it color isn't a aid, it just really isn't a requirement. People learned this information for a very long time without colored pencils. Now we we see these things as essential where kids can't learn without them. That just isn't true.
     
  40. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,745
    Likes Received:
    1,668

    Aug 3, 2018

    I agree teachers shouldn't be paying for basic supplies. The school district should.

    I also think that teachers need to be more mindful about what they ask of families for their "free" education. I think many parents, at least the ones I know, are tired of unused supplies, one page used in a 3 subject notebook that cost six dollars, tons of supplies that are rarely ever used, etc. Parents who are mindful of what is being done at school and sent home as homework see the extreme waste and requests for items that are minimally used. Many feel that schools are not mindful of how their choices impact families. Really why is it that a child needs crayons, colored pencils (now asking for erasable twist ones), thin markers, thick markers, etc. How many different types of coloring tools are really needed.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. futuremathsprof,
  2. vickilyn,
  3. waterfall
Total: 405 (members: 4, guests: 384, robots: 17)
test