School removes "Christ the Savior" from Silent Night

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Aliceacc, Dec 21, 2013.

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  1. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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  3. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    Good grief...that's all I can say!
     
  4. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Yep.
     
  5. Special-t

    Special-t Enthusiast

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    I have to respectfully disagree with the responses thus far. Why is a religious song being sung in a public school? I would have eliminated it from the program and chosen a holiday song that students from all religions can sing.

    Why should the Jewish (and other non christian) children have to sing "christ our saviour is born."?
     
  6. Missy

    Missy Aficionado

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    Agreed.
     
  7. sue35

    sue35 Habitué

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    I just don't understand why they would even sing this song. There are many non religious songs out there about Christmas. I think that's a much better idea than changing the lyrics
     
  8. orangetea

    orangetea Connoisseur

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    This.
     
  9. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Special-t, I get that. The school should not have even put the song in their program, but to change the words of the song is wrong as well.
     
  10. bison

    bison Habitué

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    I agree. Shouldn't have chosen the song at all.
     
  11. i8myhomework

    i8myhomework Comrade

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    Agreed!
     
  12. RadiantBerg

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    Yes, it was an overall stupid decision to include the song at all. I don't even think there needs to be a discussion about changing words versus not changing words as it should just not have been selected period.
     
  13. GTB4GT

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    respectfully disagree...this holiday exists as we know it for one reason. either acknowledge it...or, if you insist on removing it from public education, don't celebrate it at all.
     
  14. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    Exactly. If you are going to sing the song, do not change the lyrics.:rolleyes:
     
  15. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    So, I'm trying to sing this song without religious words:

    Silent night,
    ---- night,
    All is calm,
    All is bright,
    ----- --- ------,
    ------ --- -----,
    ---- ------,
    So tender and mild,
    Sleep in -------- peace,
    Sleep in -------- peace.

    So what exactly did they sing?
     
  16. i8myhomework

    i8myhomework Comrade

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    I don't have a problem with the censoring but why include it in the first place?
     
  17. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    Yeah, censoring it was dumb and if it was such a problem song that it needed to be censored, then it shouldn't have been performed period.
     
  18. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    It was a silly move on the part of the school, creating controversy that shouldn't have existed in the first place. There are plenty of winter songs that would fit in public school settings.
     
  19. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    :haha: But seriously.

    We've always had religious songs in our schools. I absolutely understand not wanting to include them, but this is just....really stupid.
     
  20. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    I would have to disagree with you that this holiday exists for one reason and I could go in depth into the winter celebrations of pagans, Romans, in addition to what it's evolved into today, but I think you catch my drift.
     
  21. GTB4GT

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    I used the phrase 'as we know it' deliberately. it is no longer celebrated as a midwinter festival like it may have been in the first two or three centuries AD.
     
  22. Peregrin5

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    Yeah but likewise I don't think there are a ton of families thinking about the birth of Christ when they fight I've cabbage patch dolls on Black Friday.

    In reality the celebration of Christmas is a larger amalgamation of a number of different traditions both religious and commercial and while a lot of people still celebrate the most recent religious understanding of the holiday there are also many for whom Christmas may not be religious at all and you can't claim control over the way they celebrate the holiday just because you believe your personal religion has the sole claim.
     
  23. HistoryVA

    HistoryVA Devotee

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    So... as YOU know it. And if people don't want a certain holiday promoted in public schools, then they shouldn't be allowed to celebrate it? Please. :rolleyes:
     
  24. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Here's a radical idea....Instead of complaining about a song from the Christian religion being included in the program, how about looking for songs from other religions that could have been included, as well as some secular songs for those with no religious beliefs. After all, aren't we supposed to promote diversity and cultural awareness?

    Seems like this would have been a good opportunity to explore songs from different religions and cultures that celebrate the season.
     
  25. Joy

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    This totally disgusts me!!! It is a constitutional freedom to be able to sing religious songs in a public school. The stipulation is that you include secular songs as well if the program is planned by a teacher. If students plan it, they can choose all religious songs. My entire school has been singing "Silent Night" for the past week. We've also been singing other Holiday songs. A lot of this depends on the part of the country and who you are teaching. I'm very fortunate to teach in an amazing school that appreciates these songs being sung. I really hope that I don't see the day when we lose this liberty!
     
  26. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    I think this is a great idea.

    But growing up with a very traditional Christian family, my dad would be complaining to the principal that we're being forced to sing songs against our religion.
     
  27. kinderkids

    kinderkids Virtuoso

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    “The chorale director thought it was an appropriate way to represent the song without offending those of other faiths,” Agruso told the newspaper.
    Seriously?? This song IS a CHRISTIAN RELIGIOUS SONG!!! She thought it "an appropriate way to represent the song"??!!!! Obviously she didn't care about offending those of us who share that faith that this song represents. How can you take a song that is a well known hymn in many denominations and butcher it in order to "not offend"?! I'm really tired of all of this PC stuff.
     
  28. RadiantBerg

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    You do realize, though, that you want people to be PC correct for you :whistle:
     
  29. kinderkids

    kinderkids Virtuoso

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    No, didn't say that. whistle whistle. :rolleyes:
     
  30. kinderkids

    kinderkids Virtuoso

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    And changing words to a hymn....loved by many, to fit a PC agenda??? **** right I have a problem with that. I'm not making it PC...the hymn is what it is...don't use it if you don't like the words!
     
  31. RadiantBerg

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    You implied you were offended by the lyric change because of your faith.
     
  32. kinderkids

    kinderkids Virtuoso

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    So what if I am?
     
  33. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    I think most of us can probably agree with that. It would be inappropriate to take a hymn from another religion and rewrite it.
     
  34. RadiantBerg

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    Nothing, just that people have to be PC so as not to offend you :whistle:
     
  35. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    I don't think any words should be changed in songs, literature, etc... This is why I teach TKAM exactly as is.
     
  36. kinderkids

    kinderkids Virtuoso

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    :lol:
     
  37. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    That's when the principal can point out that all of the students are being asked to sing songs that may differ from their religious views. As pointed out, "Silent Night" goes against the Jewish religion because they do not believe Jesus is the Savior. Therefore, the school has chosen to include songs from different religions and some from no religion, to help their students....and parents... experience and (hopefully) appreciate the significance of the season to other cultures and the contributions those cultures have made to the celebration of the season.

    No, RadiantBerb, it isn't the same. If various groups didn't insist on not being offended in the first place, there would have been no reason to even consider changing the words of the song.

    The song itself is completely rooted in the Christian religion and is deeply spiritual to many. The choral director's decision to change the words so it would be "less offensive" would be the same as singing Lee Greenwood's song "Proud to be an American" on the 4th of July, but removing any reference to "American" to avoid offending any non-Americans that might hear the song.

    While I disagree with the others who say the song should never have been considered for the program, I DO agree that if your choice is to leave the song out of the program or to change the words of the song so it isn't "offensive", then leaving the song out - and leaving the words ALONE - is the better choice.
     
  38. RadiantBerg

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    Ay, but would it be the same if they changed the words so as to make a parody out of it? Me thinks the reaction would be the same.
     
  39. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    My response to this would be to question why anyone felt the need to parody the song to begin with? Same as I have to question why anyone finds the song offensive.

    The song is about the core of the Christian faith. If you don't follow the Christian faith, the song should have no bearing on you, so it should also not be offensive to you.

    I'm not offended by the values, beliefs or songs of other religions because those don't apply to - nor affect - MY chosen values and beliefs. However, I would be taking exactly the same position if the choral director had decided to include any hymn or song from a different religion, but decided to change the words of THAT song to keep it from being offensive to any other group - including Christians.
     
  40. Missy

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    A group should "not have to insist on being offended in the first place" to have its beliefs respected. Throwing in a few songs from other religions, is not going to change the tenor of most programs performed by school music groups in the week or two before winter break.
     
  41. Joy

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    The majority should not have to change for a minority that might be "offended." There are some songs that I think every kids should just know. This year, I chose "Silent Night" as one of them. We by no means memorized the words but we did talk about the story behind the writing of the carol. The history behind the song is intriguing and kids loved hearing about it. I actually had kids super excited when they heard we were singing it!
     
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