Rudeness to Substitutes

Discussion in 'Substitute Teachers' started by teresaglass, Nov 10, 2006.

  1. teresaglass

    teresaglass Groupie

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    Nov 10, 2006

    Over the last few years in my teaching career I have noticed full time teachers being extremely rude to subsitititutes. They have usually came in to discipline students and have verbally embarassed the substitute. I have also run across assistants who sometimes take over and verbally abuse a substitute this is not limited to day to day subsitititutes. At my site long term substitutes are often treated rudely by colleagues in their department. Sometimes even when going to a faculty lunchroom substitutes are often subjected to teachers turning their backs on them when they sit down. What is the reason for this? Are teachers trying to show their power or is it traditional to be rude to newbies to see how much stress they can take? I have put up with a lot of this from some of the colleagues in my department. I try to smile and prove to them I am a good teacher but I know that at some point I am going to blow my stack and end up losing my job! Could some of you permanent teachers especially tell me why it is so necessary to be rude to a new or temporary teacher?
     
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  3. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Nov 10, 2006

    I'm so sorry that you are going through this. Teaching is stressful enough without having to worry about how your colleagues treat you. I don't know why some teachers feel that it is appropriate to bully others; they would never tolerate the same behaviour in their students. I can only give you the advice I try to follow myself when I am at the receiving end of some pretty vicious bullying (by two of my colleagues who don't have much use for my work with Special Ed kids--they liked me fine when I taught Homeroom): find a trusted colleague or friend you can talk to; have faith in yourself; have confidence in your teaching ability; close your door, smile, love your kids and be the best teacher you can be. Good luck; I know how hard it can be!
     
  4. Go 4th

    Go 4th Habitué

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    It makes no sense to be rude to the subs! These are our lifesavers, when we can't be there. In our school, the subs are like part of our family. We couldn't do it without them. I was shocked over the summer to run across one of our custodians at Walmart and she didn't speak to me because she said some people are embarassed to talk to her b/c she is the custodian! People need to realize that just because they have a degree, it takes the EVERYONE! It takes the custodians, subs, lunch staff, EVERYONE! I've made a special point of incorporating this into our class this year.
     
  5. TeacherC

    TeacherC Connoisseur

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    Nov 10, 2006

    I know exactly what you mean! At one school I was at, the subs and the para's ate in the staff lunch room...but none of the teachers did. They would come in, take their lunch out of the fride, and leave, most of them without even acknowledging that there was anyone else in the room. It makes for a very tense atmosphere. I agree with MrsC- if you have at least one person to buddy up with, you'll be better off. Also, if you see a new person in the school, try to include them!
     
  6. jcg

    jcg Cohort

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    Nov 10, 2006

    I am shocked by this! I subbed for a long time and never experienced this. I also now have a permanent job and have not seen this kind of behavior. It really is disgusting. Subs are so important and I try to make them feel as welcome as possible.
     
  7. nasimi77

    nasimi77 Groupie

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    When I read about how poorly so many staff members treat each other, it makes me wonder why they also seem to have problems with their students at that school. Gee, ya think maybe the negative energy these teachers are sending out is affecting the kids? Of course it is. It sickens me to think that adults treat each other like this, but as teachers we are called to a higher standard of behavior since we mold the minds of our young people. Teresaglass, I'm sorry you are at the end of such stupidity and juvenile behavior. Just hold your head high and remember you are there for your students, not to impress and obtain the acceptance of these other teachers. Yes, it would be nice, but unfortunately that is not always the case. I would try and find just one friend/colleauge to confide in. It may take time, but you will. Hang in there and just know in your heart you're a great teacher. Rise above the foolish behavior these so called educators are exhibiting.
     
  8. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Nov 11, 2006

    I know that those teachers who are the most negative towards me are the ones that my students complain to me about and the ones I hear yelling at kids in the hall. The students don't respect these teachers, so, of course, they behave poorly.

    I was asked to ask as mentor to one of the new teachers this year. At first I declined, because I have so much on my plate already being new to Special Ed. However, when the alternative was one of the most negative teachers, I decided that I could find the time.
     
  9. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    Nov 11, 2006

    I work in a deaf school and the lunch staff is hearing. They are rusty at signing but they try. When no one is paying attention or around, they talk. Last year (I was new), I overheard (read lips at the last minute) one of the lunch ladies saying (she is ALWAYS polite). Wow, I can tell you that made my day! They didn't know I overheard them but it made me realize that I need to approach EVERYONE kindly. I'm an aide, but I am friends with teachers other than my own, other aides of course, but I know who the custodian is (and have talked with him), the lawn guy (and love him to peices), and lunch people. What's funny is the one person I guess i wasn't friendly enough with was the cashier because one day he told me to smile more often. Apparently by the time I get to the cashier, I look down in my wallet and my mind is thinking about what I'm doing next. I even smile and say hi to the dishwasher. I'm not sure if I would have done any of this if I had not overheard that one comment and realize that polite words, smiles, acknowledgement, praises, compliments etc really do make a difference.

    P.S. I know what you mean by teachers not eating in the lunch room. I think SOME of that is being too busy.
     
  10. DeBoll

    DeBoll New Member

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    Nov 11, 2006

    Yes we, subs are the ignored, invisible group of people. I am often treated poorly. I don’t take offence any longer just except it as a job description. I have been hoping to get placed in the district and so began to work there but I’m on my second year. Most teachers and administrators are very surprised that I have a degree, although it is clearly stated in my files. Regarding rude people., I stick with people who will smile and invite me in to there little circle. I eat alone and break alone if someone wants to talk to me I am there if not I keep my head down and finish my job. It’s a job not a career for me. I have been passed up several times for a position by younger teachers who have the same degree as I and I have been working in the district?? I feel very subclass.
     
  11. Shane Steinmetz

    Shane Steinmetz Rookie

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    Nov 11, 2006

    In my school system, substitutes are clearly differentiated from full-time teachers. The lunch scenario you described, Teresa, applies to my situation. Although substitutes try to associate with full-time teachers sometimes, the connection just isn't there. Substitutes seem to get along with each other, though, and I love co-teaching or talking to another substitute. It's almost like we're somehow hearded in our own groups.

    Why are some full-time teachers rude to substitutes and treat them like people beneath them?

    I really don't know! Why don't you ask a few specific people that greeted me when I first posted here? Oddly enough, they don't seem to be in this thread.

    I'll tell you why some full-time teachers mistreat substitutes like that. Some of them view substitutes as babysitters that are beneath them -- especially the young, less qualified ones. Anything other than perfect and complete agreement is an annoyance; you're just the warm body there to perform a job, get paid, and leave -- especially if you're young and underqualified, even though the allowance of such teachers is the result of the state and counties' own desperation.

    I certainly wouldn't fly off the handle and do something that would be vulgar or disturbing. However, I'm not going to blindly agree with the full-time teachers and principals I work with, either. A degree isn't a write-up for perfection, and it's certainly not a pass to mistreat those without one.

    Oh, wait. That's right. Some schools out there are more like parallel dimensions. Up is down, right is left, white is black, calmly discussing an issue is yelling and shouting...

    I had to go through a little over a decade's worth of drama and harassment from my fellow peers. Now that I'm an employee of the school system, I'm going to have to face the same thing from the teachers and staff? I don't think so. I didn't become an "adult" and get myself this far only to be continually harassed and condescended by new people.

    I will not succumb to the mistreatment and professional intimidation of older, more experienced teachers!
     
  12. rlbbas123

    rlbbas123 Rookie

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    Nov 13, 2006

    I know how it feels to be a new sub and I do understand where a sub can feel like a fish out of water. When I first started subbing, I would go to the teachers lunch room to eat a bit, and have other teachers just sit there and act as if I wasn't in the room. I would try to pretend that it did not bother me but sometimes it really does hurt ones feelings. Like today, I got called in to sub for a teacher only to find out she was going to be there. I was told I could stay and help. I was grateful for that and thought I could even observe her style of teaching. The teacher was GREAT, but while eating lunch today I sat with the other teachers and no one spoke not one word to me, and when we were lining up, I was made to feel like I was in the way. I may not have a college degree yet, I am working on that, but I do think I am just as capable as they are to handle children. I have some of my own, and after all, isn't there a saying that goes(parents are teachers too). There are even days I'm not sure what the teachers are looking for in a "days summary". They will say, List names of students who misbehave, or I have an assigned sitting chart, They know my class room rules, etc. But what do they really want to know? Do I tell them that students are not sitting in their assigned seats, roaming the class room the entire time, constantly talking?(and this is high school) Or is this considered not being able to handle a class room, so I am being a tattle tale. Any advice on what to actually put in a subs summary of the day?
    Anyway, I think that subbing and teaching are both hard jobs.
    Although, we may not have our own class rooms, if we are dependable and try to a good job, then we should be treated the same as they would want to be treated. Also, I have heard about sub's leaving the rooms in a mess, well, what is considered messy.
    I try to leave things the way I found it.

    Anyway, I think as a rule of thumb, I come in with a smile, I try to my very best and well I am humane.
     
  13. FUNSUB

    FUNSUB Rookie

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    Nov 13, 2006

    Rudenes to Subs

    I don't really get that. All the schools that I have subbed have been extremely nice to me - without subs they would have to combine classes (Florida has class size restrictions now, 20 or less students). I am always asked "who are you today?"

    At lunch time I always eat with the students! depending on the weather we always eat outside! kids love it! cafeteria staff loves it! I usually do not know any of the teachers well enough to eat in the teachers lounge. I have more fun with the students anyway! :angel:
     
  14. trolls_r_us

    trolls_r_us New Member

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    Nov 14, 2006

    Shane,

    You are right, of course.

    However, realize that High School is High School. Everything you remember about your experience there is still the same; you are just looking at it from a different angle.

    As far as arrogance and pettiness go, those exist everywhere. Today's cut-throat way of going about life has resulted in a culture filled with selfish, ignorant, striving people who would shoot their own grandmother to get ahead. It's "the way."

    I admire you for not "taking it," but just understand that you will always be fighting that battle anywhere you go.
     
  15. Shylac

    Shylac Rookie

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    Nov 14, 2006

    I usually get snubbed as a sub. It makes me upset because i am not beneath them i teach i try to teach the lessons they leave the best i can like it is my own class. To me a great day is when a teacher actually smiles at me and says hello. I usually just sit and eat lunch in the classroom alone. I have tried the teachers lunchroom but no one talks to me. I just say to myself if you dont want to talk to me then i dont want to talk to you!
     
  16. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    Nov 14, 2006

    I would hate to see any sub treated like that in our district. It would not be accepted at any of our elementary schools, and would be reported at our high school.

    I have been a sub at the school I work for, and I can honestly say that everyone here goes out of their way to help. I have never stepped inside a room with a sub and disciplined kids, but I have disciplined kids in the hallway. I do that with any class, and I expect other adults to do it with my class as well.
    For a teacher to look down on a substitute, is just down right rude and unprofessional. All of our substitutes are qualified, and would not be in the classroom for the teacher if they were not.

    As for teachers eating in their rooms, sometimes they have too. This is the first year I haven't taken my lunch to my room to work during my break. The only reason for that is by the time I get back to my room, I won't have time to eat. Sometimes the teachers just aren't very social with other adults. Not everyone is outgoing and will start up conversations with strangers, but some do.

    I am very sorry for your experiences, and hope that someday you will get to be in a school that has teachers who appreciate their subs.
     
  17. txteach2b

    txteach2b Comrade

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    Nov 14, 2006

    Here's my two cents worth: I started as a sub in my district. Now I'm an aide. I have yet to experience a situation that would be considered rude by the other teachers. In my position, we get shuffled around a lot, depending on where we're needed....sometimes I stay in the same room all day, other times I go to a classroom for one class period, and different times I am in a different room than usual all day. I gues I get treated as a sub, just because I'm in for that teacher. Most of the rudeness I've experienced comes from the students. I wonder what they're being taught at home if they don't even know how to pay attention to the words, "This is individual, quiet seat work. I don't want to hear any talking. Anyone who needs help can come ask me, not anyone else."
     
  18. MissWull

    MissWull Cohort

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    Nov 14, 2006

    I have to agree...I do sense that vibe sometimes with teachers. If I'm subbing a class I rarely eat in the teacher's lounge...I just feel very strange...I mean I probably should to get some experience and what not from the teachers...but I dunno...it's intimidating sometimes. It feels to me as though they have been there so long, and I just started it's like what am I doing here...

    But I think I overexaggerate some of that in my head. Because I've only ever gotten smiles from other teachers...occasionally they have been stern or serious looking with me...but who knows...everyone has bad days...right...
     
  19. srh

    srh Devotee

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    Nov 14, 2006

    I'm sorry so many of you have had bad experiences. I'm a second year teacher who never had the opportunity to sub (HAD to get a job with benefits, so I wasn't gonna let up!!). I can't say I know how you feel exactly, but I do have an idea!

    My school treats subs with the utmost respect from everything I have observed, especially those who go the extra mile or at least do what is asked. But teachers do talk, and if a sub does an extremely poor job, then you can be sure that information will be shared. I did have a sub once who sent 5-6 kids to the nurse's office in one afternoon! The office manager nearly killed me the next day! (One student asked, she let him go, and everyone else thought it was a good idea too. I don't think she caught on!) Two weeks ago one ran a video movie instead of teaching several segments; the video had been planned as an incentive thing and this particular teacher is VERY strict about things like that! Not a lot of teaching happened that day, and an entire reward system was thwarted! Most of my colleagues, however, don't expect the sub to pull off "a regular day"--we know it will not go the same as usual. Generally, I've been very happy with the subs I've been assigned (with BTSA and new teacher status, I've had several workshop days scheduled), although some followed the plans better, etc. I always share the good stuff with other teachers in case they're looking for someone.

    I can't speak to the lunch room thing--as an afternoon Kinder teacher, I have yet to eat in there myself!! I'm the only one with lunch at 11:00! But I can understand how it might be intimidating. I felt the same way going into meetings and things even AFTER I WAS HIRED!

    I would say, expect that some teachers are going to be rude or disrespectful, because that's just the kind of people they are. Not unlike some attorneys or doctors or clerks or..... But believe me when I say we're not ALL like that!! Substitute teachers don't have the same day-to-day experience with our classroom and/or students, and that should be recognized with some understanding by teachers. :-D
     
  20. nasimi77

    nasimi77 Groupie

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    Nov 14, 2006

    Many people on this board are not letting up either. They are not subbing out of choice, but necessity. Consider yourself lucky you were able to find a full-time teaching gig. It's a very tough market out there right now. Your other points are well noted and make sense.
     
  21. srh

    srh Devotee

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    Yeah, I am absolutely grateful for the way my situation turned out. Sometimes when I read posts on this site, I feel guilty because I didn't have to deal with so much of that stress. But I had left another career and had no insurance or income during final student teaching, so when I say I wasn't gonna let up, I also mean I would have been working at Starbuck's (great insurance for part-timers!) and/or tutoring, etc.
     
  22. nasimi77

    nasimi77 Groupie

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    I gotcha. That's funny, while I was subbing I interviewed at Starbuck's. ;) They DO have pretty darn good benes. I just felt like I was interviewing for a job with IBM...it was ridiculous the amount of questions they asked! They only wanted "career oriented" people. Soon as they saw I was pursuing a teaching career, they lost interest.

    I had to sub for 5 years. I had no choice, the market is so brutal here in CA, as in so many states. Subbing was tough, but I'm glad I did it.

    Ok, sorry to hijack this thread!:sorry:
     
  23. FUNSUB

    FUNSUB Rookie

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    Nov 16, 2006

    rudeness

    got a new one! another SUBSTITUTE was rude to me and my class today! she had the nerve to come into my class and tell me the class was too loud. there was an accordian door separating the two rooms and she closed because "your class is still alittle too loud". my class saw it as rude as I did! I am so sorry because my class was NOT TOO NOISY! They were transitioning from one activity to another. but, still I would NEVER walk into another sub's room and do that! I left a note for the teacher that I did not like it at all! There were students in her room that I subbed last year and were sad I was not their sub.

    oops! venting again! thanks bunches!:D
     
  24. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    Nov 17, 2006

    I no longer work at this school, but there was one sub I purposely ignored when I saw her at a parent function since after she subbed for me she was banned from the sub list. She had gone into my closet and given out my Christmas presents to the children in October. She told the kids I could buy them new ones. How dare she do that!!!!! On top of that horrific action, she left all the papers in a huge pile on my desk, scattered around like cats had been playing in them, but I found out that was typical for her. Don't be like that sub! I still get mad when I think about it!!!!!:eek: Ignoring that woman was the least I felt like doing!!
     
  25. Shane Steinmetz

    Shane Steinmetz Rookie

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    Nov 19, 2006

    Thank you.

    Well, at least the "immature" aspect of the social environment is gone for me. Instead of dealing with immaturity and nuisances from people my own age, I am now dealing with highly fraternized teachers that walk loudly and carry steel poles.
     
  26. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Nov 19, 2006

    I am always kind to subs and treat them with respect. I value the good ones and have asked not to have only one return to my room (she was a nightmare- made several kids cry, one had a migraine by the time the day was over, too high stress!! Not cut out for elementary!!) I always leave very detailed plans for my subs so they will know exactly what the expectations are and how to do whatever is called for that day.

    Now, as far as faculty rooms- you are not really a COLLEAGUE, per se. you are a sub. Not that you should be treated unkindly but you are not a 'member of the faculty'. There are confidential matters that teachers can discuss amongst themselves that can not b shared with subs. If the sub is from the town and a new sub, teachers may be a bit wary about letting out too much info. I'm not saying that you should not be treated with respect. We all NEED subs and subs have a tough enough time with not knowing when or how often they will work, what they will be walking into, what the expectations are, who to ask, where to go, etc etc. I always try to be as helpful as I can when I know a sub is on my grade level in an emergency- I always go in and make sure they have everything they need. I do not however entertain probing questions that subs have asked me whose answers are proprietary information that they do not neccessarily need. I act professionally, I expect the same of my colleagues and of subs.

    It sounds like you are bearing the brunt of a climate where subs are not treated with kindness and respect. I'm not sure why that is. Comport yourself with professionalism, as I'm sure you are and figure out to whom you can go for NEEDED information. You may not ever be treated as a colleague. The least you should expect is respect and kindness- but keep in mind those are earned.
     
  27. Btownsub

    Btownsub Rookie

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    When I first started subbing, I was amazed at how much the full-time teachers ignored me. I talked to my wife (who is a full-time teacher) about it and she reminded me that not everybody is as extremely extroverted as I am. My wife is actually very shy, and although she does just fine in her classroom, she doesn't talk to subs because of her shyness, not because she thinks that they are beneath her. Since we had that talk, whenever I go into the teachers lounge to eat lunch, I always say "hi" first and ask the teachers how their day is going, what subjects they teach, etc., and I've found that they are always really nice to me, and more than willing to talk. It would be nice if they were the ones breaking the ice, but I figure that since I'm already out of my comfort zone (new school, new people) it won't be that hard to go a little further and get the conversation going.
     
  28. srh

    srh Devotee

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    Nov 19, 2006

    Great attitude, Btownsub!

    In my school, we have so many parent helpers roaming around, and some of them subs--it is sometimes hard to know who is doing what! But then, that's where "good character" comes into play! Shouldn't we just be kind and courteous to any who cross our paths...unless there is some reason, of course, to be extra careful? We can all do that, and just be careful about sharing too much information! I am by nature the kind of person who likes to put people at ease--and I always appreciate people who go the extra mile for me when I'm in a new situation.
     
  29. MissWull

    MissWull Cohort

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    Well I wish I could be more like Btown...maybe once I warm up to subbing and to a school in particular! But I am probably more like your wife, the shy one who will reply to someone, but won't initiate! That does get me in trouble sometimes...people sometimes think others are "snooty" when they act like that...but little do they know, we're just the shy ones! :)
     
  30. stephanie90102

    stephanie90102 Rookie

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    Nov 21, 2006

    I'm a Long Term Sub covering a maternity leave, and I have noticed that the other first grade teachers are kind to me, but the admin doesn't have the time of day for me. I didnt get an orientation to the district, its my first year, and i need some GUIDANCE. But they all tell me that they can't help me, or don't have the time. I try and work it out on my own, but when I have an admin come into the classroom and complain that I didnt follow a procedure correctly, it is because when I asked, no one would help me. I feel lost in the shuffle. All I am trying to do is my best.
     
  31. teresaglass

    teresaglass Groupie

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    Try to find a buddy among the first grade teachers. bounce some ideas off their heads. Unfortunately with long term subbing its sink or swim. Have confidence. They picked you because you were the right person for the job. I have mainly learned things on my own at my district by aasking other collegues.
     
  32. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    I would have taken a step further and asked her to pay for the new gifts. That was pretty much like stealing. Taking items from your cabinet and giving them out!! Unbelievable. Seriously, I would take that to another level. I don't tolerate stealing very well.
     
  33. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    She was the daughter of the superintendent so I didn't do anything except have her banned from the sub list and even that was a huge scandal!
     
  34. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    So, because she's the superintendent's daughter she's allowed to get away with anything, eh?
     
  35. munchkin

    munchkin Cohort

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    Nov 25, 2006

    I've been a sub for4.5 years. I, too have experience the snubbing and outright rudeness by the "professional staff" at a particular school AND the district office staff. I also have been in a few schools where the teacher's go out of their way to be friendly and helpful, unfortunately it hasn' beenthe majority of the time I have been in a classroom.
    As far as the lunchroom/ or any other social type of time ie, meetings, training sessions etc... Those same friendly people are rarely as outgoing and helpful as when they are coming from their own classrooms and "sticking" their heads in to check up on you , see if you need help etc.. What's with that anyway??? Did I suddenly grow a third head, get B.O.??? Usually, I will eat with my students if possible. But I always try to say something nice or friendly to the teacher who is sitting beside me, or while checking out of the school, I make it a point to stop by atleast 1/2 classrooms to take a look and "admire" their hardwork and I do make it a point to give atleast 3-5 compliments to teachers and students in the hall way about something they did or didn't do. Sometimes I' will hand the "good" class' teacher a bag of goodies to her to give to her class at a later time. Most schools I go to have a contest to see how many compliments a particular class can get from an outsideradministrator/other teacher per day. I just add a twist by given the reward with the compliment.
    Your point about sharing confidential material is well taken. I have been in situations where teachers have shared tooo much information about a situation, and I have had to be the one to find a way out of that kind of conversation. BUt I have also been in situations, where needed information was NOT given to me, and either a student or myself was put into awkward and dangerous situations, with no back up help. Ie, a student that had a seizure, and I had no idea that there was a potential problem. Or the time a particularly volatile student "wentoff" on me and I wasn't given any help from the office, nor was I warned it could happen and what to look for. You can be sure if I had known, I definitely would of taken precautions!!! Thank heavens other students were not in harms way!
    I remind myself daily, that I go into each and every classroom to do my best and help the students do their best to complete their school day in a positive way!! Every classroom I go to, I have learned something from the class and usually the teacher even if she/he isn't there just by the way the classroom is set up, the kids interact, and the neighbor teachers around me.
    Remember, contract teachers: it's not just the students who are watching every move you make and learning from your actions, its the volunteers and the substitues that you have in your classroom!!
     

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