Re-Eval for HS senior????

Discussion in 'Special Education' started by IBVee, Oct 5, 2009.

  1. IBVee

    IBVee New Member

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    I wanted to get you alls take on the purpose of additional testing for students who are HS juniors/seniors. I have many parents and teachers request it.

    If the student is going off to college or the like updated assessment can benefit them when they enroll/apply for college...

    other than that?????? please advice
     
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  3. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Perhaps even one or two years of services will be helpful to the student.

    The school psych at my school gets really angry and defensive whenever we ask for students to be evaluated/assessed for services. His attitude irritates me. Students who need services need them regardless of their age or whether they've had them previously. That's my opinion.
     
  4. IBVee

    IBVee New Member

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    ITA

    But it seems like they want the eval for the kid to take with them.....Where else would this be useful????
     
  5. Tasha

    Tasha Phenom

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    It may be helpful to find appropriate jobs to know what skills they have mastered and at what level. I also think some group homes and/or day centers ask for recent copies so they know how to place them in appropriate situations.
     
  6. karebear76

    karebear76 Habitué

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    Yep, I'd say that it would be useful for lots of reasons. It's valuable even if the paper doesn't go anywhere, as students with disabilities are eligible for services until age 21 (22?). I would think that there would be a major focus on transition anyway at that age, plus transfer of rights, etc.
     
  7. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Many colleges provide accommodations. Also, they can get extra time on the SAT and other standardizes tests.
     
  8. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Yes, give them the evaluation. It is their right unless they had an evaluation in the past 12 months.

    When was the students last triennial?

    An updated FULL ASSESSMENT (in all areas of disability) should be given in junior/senior year so they can get proper accomms
     
  9. Icare

    Icare Rookie

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    My sisters son had an IEP for Dyslexia in the 8th grade. They released him in 10th grade when he passed the high school exit exam. They said there's no need for an IEP now because he can pass the test.

    Isn't the purpose of an IEP (and school) is to help the child learn versus passing the HS exit exam???

    That never made sense to me.
     
  10. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Correct.

    But that is all the schools care about

    They most likely did not want to deal with a transition plan out of HS, because they are lazy asses.

    They probably bullied your sister into dropping the IEP. I'm guessing he wasn't at grade level for reading either?
     
  11. CanukTeacher

    CanukTeacher Comrade

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    As someone who writes IEPs I'd disagree with the idea that they want IEPs dropped because they don't want to do the work. I have to remove IEPs when the IEP was put in place without enough evidence initially. The process has changed. If 10 years ago we identified if we felt the student wasn't doing well now there needs to be clear evidence. I don't think its so black and white that special education teachers just don't want to do the work.

    Another interesting tid bit - low performance does not necessarily give a student the ability to get an IEP. For example, a student who performs consistently in th 10-15th percentile cannot be catagorized as LD because they don't have one or two very low scores - so simply struggling in school doesn't mean we should test - there needs to be evidence that there is a difference between what they know and what they can show.
     
  12. TeachWildThings

    TeachWildThings Comrade

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    Icare, did the test magically cure the dyslexia? Potential lawsuit. My son also passed, on 1st try. In 10th grade. He's a senior & still has an IEP. His qualifier is "specific learning disability" since he was in 3rd grade.

    There is a statistic out there about kids in Jr./Sr. year being tested so they could have accommodations on the SAT, we had it in one of my grad classes, like 75% were athletes or something crazy like that.

    Also, learning disabilities will give students a 504 plan in college. You can get it after, but it is easier if you transition with one. It is important because the colleges can pay other students to take notes, tutor, ect.

    Bottom line, yeah schools & parents of Jr./Sr.'s are taking advantage of the system. HOWEVER, there are those kids who, for whatever reason, fall through the cracks who could really use the support, especially in higher ed. After all if they've had a bad time of it in school it's amazing they'd even WANT to go to college!
     
  13. bros

    bros Phenom

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    A lot of schools here in the US neglect to do even triennial evaluations (The federally mandated evaluations every 3 years). They will go out of their way to make sure parents do not know their rights.

    I was categorized as multiply disabled due to Dysgraphia, ADHD, Epilepsy, Hypotonia, Latent Nystagmus (both eyes), Amblyopia (left eye), 20/200 vision in the left eye (and 20/40 in the right), underdeveloped muscles (mostly upper body), Visual Motor Integration of a 6 year 7 month old, motor coordination problems, and fine and gross motor skill deficits. My secondary category always changed year to year (The most common two were OHI and SLD)

    They refused to provide me with the OT that I needed to thrive and now I am worse off than I was when I was in second grade.
     
  14. CanukTeacher

    CanukTeacher Comrade

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    Perhaps it is different (but based on the description it sounds pretty similar). Yes a student can get accommodations in college, but only if the testing is sound. If a student is identified in HS as LD (dyslexia falls into this category) but the ps-ed doesn't statistically show that it is LD the college will not create a plan or provide accommodations.

    Based on the stat about testing in junior kindergarten MOST of those kids identified to help them on the SAT would not be sp ed anymore - they would have been weeded out.

    We have students who are "LD" accoring to their IEP but the ps-ed said they aren't LD but need accommodations. That student is not a student who is eligable for sp ed support anymore. So, IF that student was doing well we would demit them (if the evidence was sound in the ps-ed that they were LD we would not demit them and we would simply monitor them).
     
  15. Icare

    Icare Rookie

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    They messed with her and she didn't know it because she had no clue bout the law. 1st they tested him in 6th grade, after years of her complaining. When they finally tested, the principle LOST the evaluations!

    So the poor kid struggled and finally was identified in 8th, and they dropped his IEP after he took the exit exam.

    She had no idea what they were doing was illegial, until I found out after years of battles for my own two kids in the same district. I decided to go out and find out more about our rights and eventually had to hire a lawyer.

    Her son is very smart, IQ of 127 so he masked it all well, but he still struggled. He's doing okay now, but he could be doing better if they had done there job.
     
  16. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Students get acommodations here based on the Americans with Disabilities Act in colleges. The ADA ALSO governs 504 plans that students can have K-12 (which are just accommodations, no remediation of any sort comes with a 504).
     
  17. CanukTeacher

    CanukTeacher Comrade

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    I'm still not sure. We "drop" plenty of students in grade 8 for the exact reasons outlined here - because they are doing fine. The key factor for if they keep or do not keep their identification is what the psy-ed testing says. IF they were identified LD (which dyslexia falls under) based on a broad interpretation (which many were) at Grade 8 the school has to decide if current definitions (which are narrower) support the idenfication. If it does they keep it. If it doesn't they remove it because based on current knowledge the identification is not accurate. So my question would be what exactly did the testing show? That would determine if the school was on solid ground or not?

    As for American definitions, I could be wrong, but based on a quick search it seems that like in Canada, in the US dyslexia is not an identification. The identification is LD.

    For a student to be identified LD there has to be a very large difference between some of their scores and others on a battery of tests. They generally have to have scored between the 1st and 3rd percentile on at least 2-3 categories while scoring in the 50th to 60th percentile in other categories and demonstrated a reasonably high IQ.

    This site (http://www.dys-add.com/testing.html) indicated the following (My personal educational viewpoint conflicts with a lot on this site as it seems to have a bias but it does point out some of the reasons why the school may actually be doing everything they are supposed to do under the law):


    'Federal education law does not require public schools to test children for dyslexia. Schools only have to test to find out if a child is eligible for special education services, and if so, under what category. If a child with dyslexia is eligible, they will be placed in a category called Learning Disability."

    Moreover, "Most children with dyslexia are not severe enough to meet the school’s criteria, and the legal definition, of a learning disability.

    In fact, according to the research, only one in ten children with dyslexia qualifies as having a learning disability. That means nine out of ten children with dyslexia are either never sent for testing, or when they are tested, they do not qualify as having a learning disability.

    So only children with severe dyslexia qualify. But so do children who are struggling for other reasons. That’s why it is not true that dyslexia is the same thing as a learning disability.

    And that’s also why most children with dyslexia are not receiving special education services. Only those who qualify as having a Learning Disability receive special education services."

    In addition I looked up the categories for special education in the US and to the best of what I could see LD is a category and Dyslexia is not. So my guess is that this student should not be identified based on the laws governing the school.

    Again I could be wrong, but it looks to me like the school is doing what it is supposed to do.
     
  18. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Most of our students with dyslexia qualify under 504 rather than special education.
     
  19. CanukTeacher

    CanukTeacher Comrade

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    Thanks MissCeliaB. I'd always assumed 504 was special education. That is really cool that you have a seperate category for kids who don't meet sp. ed requirements. However, again not sure, but it seems like the school may have followed the 504 requirements.

    Does this sound right?

    "Who decides whether a student is qualified and eligible for services under Section 504?
    According to the federal regulations: “...placement decisions are to be made by a group of persons who are knowledgeable about the child, the meaning of the evaluation data, placement options, least restrictive environment requirements, and comparable facilities” [34 C.F.R. §104.35(c)(3)].

    Unlike Special Education, the federal regulations for Section 504 do not require or even mention that parents are to be a part of the decision-making committee. The decision to include parents in the decision-making committee is a determination that is made by each school district and should be spelled out in the district’s procedures for implementing Section 504. Parents should at least be asked and encouraged to contribute any information that they may have (e.g., doctor’s reports, outside testing reports, etc.) that would be helpful to the Section 504 committee in making their determination of what the child may need. Schools are expected to make sound educational decisions as to what the child needs in order to receive an appropriate education.

    What information is used in doing an evaluation under Section 504?
    Under Section 504, no formalized testing is required. The 504 Committee should look at grades over the past several years, teacher’s reports, information from parents or other agencies, state assessment scores or other school administered tests, observations, discipline reports, attendance records, health records and adaptive behavior information. Schools must consider a variety of sources. A single source of information (such as a doctor’s report) cannot be the only information considered. Schools must be able to assure that all information submitted is documented and considered."

    So it sounds like the school can look at school data (like teacher reports, testing, etc) and determine that a student no longer needs 504.
    http://www.greatschools.net/LD/school-learning/section-504.gs?content=868&page=3

    There is clearly a way to have a hearing, followed by the ability to file a complaint but it seems like the school in this case is following the rules from what I can tell.
     
  20. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    I've referred two of my seniors for evaluation in the past week. One had an IEP that hadn't been updated since 2005 and the other had state scores in the basement. Thankfully my principal is of my mindset that it's never too late to serve our kids. If it keeps them from dropping out, we try to do it.
     
  21. Special-t

    Special-t Enthusiast

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    To qualify for an IEP a student must have a disability plus a need. The disability alone does not make a child eligible for sped services. If a child is succeeding in the regular curriculum and has met all their goals and objectives, they might no longer have the need for special ed services.
     
  22. Tasha

    Tasha Phenom

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    I always struggle with this. Maybe they don't have a "need" in my class because I accommodate in all kinds of ways, but if don't get it in their IEP in kindergarten, they may not get those accommodations in the future and they end of being frustrated and not getting the education they deserve.
     
  23. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Discrepany is never a good way to judge disability

    http://www.wrightslaw.com/blog/?p=95

    The law about eligibility for a child with a specific learning disability changed - there is no longer a requirement to use a discrepancy formula. At the same time, Section 1414(b)(2)(B) says the school may “not use any single measure or assessment
     
  24. TeachWildThings

    TeachWildThings Comrade

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    Kids with dyslexia could still qulify for a 504 plan under ADA. That means they can get accomodations (like the colored tranparence sheets to use when reading ect, extra time to complete assignments) but they can not get modifications (reduced work load)
     
  25. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Yes they can. They can get a modification such as a lesser load of homework. I've heard of that one being used.

    Dyslexia is usually under SLD or OHI.

    Some states classify it as just a problem with reading.

    Texas actually recognizes dyslexia officially in their state sped laws.
     
  26. Special-t

    Special-t Enthusiast

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    As the curriculum changes throughout the years, so might a child's needs. In California, the the law says the IEP has to be updated and evaluated annually, so as a student's needs change, so does the IEP. Perhaps Texas doesn't do annual updates? It would be so difficult to predict all of a child's educational needs in kindergarten because the changes that take place from year to year. It seems so restrictive to have to only depend upon what was written in kindergarten.

    And in California, the IEP team is made up of a multidisciplinary group (special educator, psychologist, etc). It's not just left up to one teacher to decide upon what goes into the IEP. Is it different in Texas? It would be such a daunting task to have to make all the IEP decisions by yourself.
     
  27. Tasha

    Tasha Phenom

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    Yes, we have annual updates, but say it took 5-6 months of RtI data for a student to enter special education and get an IEP, I have to be extra vigilant about what goes on the IEP because the next year the annual update might be March or April and in the mean time a teacher would be trying to figure out what works for this student when I have already tried different interventions and know what works (somewhat). Also, there are other people on the team but none of them would typically see a student on a regular basis. In kindergarten they rarely have a resource teacher directly working with them, at the most they have an aide for a certain amount of time per day or week to help them with work or to work on interventions. The speech teacher sees them weekly or bi-weekly and not in the classroom setting. As the children get older and the curriculum becomes more demanding they have more time in a resource room or with special education teachers in the classroom as co-teachers. Of course all of this varies with need and specific disability.
     
  28. bros

    bros Phenom

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    IEP teams are mandated federally to meet at least once per school year at a mutually agreed upon time.
     
  29. Special-t

    Special-t Enthusiast

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    Tasha - your post reminds me of the great contribution a Kinder teacher makes to their student's futures. I certainly didn't realize the massive responsibility a Kinder teacher has till I spent some time working in elementary school. Kindergarten, to an outsider, seems like all fun and games, but it is so much more than that. You really are setting the child up for the rest of his/her education. Then throw in the special ed factor and your responsibility grows! Your students are lucky to have such a caring teacher.
     
  30. karebear76

    karebear76 Habitué

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    Let's not forget as well that there is sometimes a huge gap in what the law says & what really happens. Yes Ohio law says that the IEP team must be multidisciplanary (with members from all aspects that can speak for the child's needs: district representative, intervention specialist, general ed teacher, student, parent) in my experience it has all too often been the parent & myself. I've pressured the powers that be as much as I can (we have new forms this year) and I've been dismissed at every corner. I've fought to keep the district in compliance, and they don't really seem to care.

    Also according to Ohio, modifications (shortening the work load) can only be used for CD (cognitive disability) or TBI (traumatic brain injury). It's stated right on the training forms for our new IEP forms. LD students are not eligible for modifications. Accommodations are to be used. Reason being: LD students have average or above average IQ, therefore grade level standards are attainable with appropriate accommodations. I don't agree with this, and will do some things the way I always have (until threatened with job loss or jail time). My LD students almost always present as CD, and benefit greatly from modifications. I would think that 504 would be the same thing.

    Also, I believe at least in my district the discrepancy formula is still being used. I haven't sat in on an initial eval for a couple of years, but to my knowledge it's still alive & well. In fact, I've had an LD student (def presented as CD) no longer qualify for services (supposedly) because there was no discrepancy between ability & achievement. Basically his eval showed that he was doing second grade work, and he was able to do second grade work. So he was supposed to go into a 5th grade regular math class, and the teacher was supposed to differentiate 5th grade math to a 2nd grade level b/c that's what he was able to do.
     

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