Question: Raises and promotions

Discussion in 'General Education' started by marcus903, Jun 3, 2011.

  1. marcus903

    marcus903 Companion

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 3, 2011

    Can a teacher get a raise and a promotion to an administrator?

    Have YOU ever gotten a raise or promotion to an administrator?
     
  2.  
  3. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    13,895
    Likes Received:
    1,731

    Jun 3, 2011

    Here, to become an administrator you need to have fairly extensive teaching experience across many grades. There are courses to take and a "practicuum" to complete (sort of a year-long project in the school). Once all of that is done, the teacher goes before a committee to present their practicuum, answer situational questions, and write an essay (on the spot) about how they would handle a situation that could arise with a teacher, a parent or a student. It's a very lengthy and challenging process, as it should be.

    I have no desire to be an administrator; I enjoy what I'm doing now too much.
     
  4. Kindergarten31

    Kindergarten31 Cohort

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    500
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 3, 2011

    Our system is about the same as MrsC. At the point of complettion, you are placed on a list and when there is an opening as an AP, you are moved there. After several years as an AP, then there is pretty tough competition for being a principal.
     
  5. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    124

    Jun 3, 2011

  6. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,557
    Likes Received:
    1,082

    Jun 3, 2011


    All of our administrators started out as teachers. After getting their masters, they went on to get a Rank I certification in administration. If someone is interested in an administrative position, he/she has to apply for the position and interview. There is no automatic movement to those positions.

    I don't have any certification for administrative positions, but I do have leadership roles within my school. I am the grade-level team leader, and I'm the writing cluster leader for the entire school. I am also the department head, and I've served on the school council. Some of those are paid positions, and some aren't.
     
  7. yellowdaisies

    yellowdaisies Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,653
    Likes Received:
    233

    Jun 3, 2011

    In California, there is a separate administrative credential. You don't really get "promoted" to administrator, because those jobs are separate and you can apply for them if you have an administrative credential. Most administrators were once teachers, meaning that they have a teaching credential (or more than one) and an administrative credential. I know nothing about the process for obtaining the admin. credential because I don't ever want to be an administrator, so I've never looked into it.
     
  8. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    17,362
    Likes Received:
    46

    Jun 3, 2011

    In Texas, you have to be a teacher for 3 years, have a Masters degree, and take a principal certification test. The certification program and masters degree requires a practicum.
     
  9. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,955
    Likes Received:
    2,107

    Jun 3, 2011

    Are you asking if teachers become administrators? ....yes, but it involves additional education and certification. One wouldn't be 'promoted ' to administration...one would have to interview and go through the regular hiring process.
     
  10. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    27,534
    Likes Received:
    6

    Jun 3, 2011

    That always cracks me up.

    Most teachers are just starting to hit their stride after 3 years. I know of very, very few (as in "none that I can name") who would be competant to lead a school after so little time in the classroom.

    Who makes these rules???
     
  11. Major

    Major Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,620
    Likes Received:
    5

    Jun 3, 2011



    Yes a teacher can get a raise and a teacher can be promoted to an admin position....... (just curious marcus ..... do you have any reason to think a teacher can or can not get a "raise" ..... or be promoted to a "higher" position? ......... Please reply...... thanks)

    I can't answer the second question because I'm a guest teacher.... never wanted to be promoted to anything......

    In your working life marcus ...... have you ever gotten a raise or a promotion?... What were the factors...... for or against you? ..

    Thanks marcus in advance for your replies........
     
  12. marcus903

    marcus903 Companion

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 4, 2011

    I don't have a job. Sorry.

    It's glad to see that a teacher can get a raise but displeased with the fact that teachers can't get promoted.

    In my opinion, the best teacher who has perfect attendace, no write-ups, and good performance should be promoted to a higher position. The school or state will give them the teacher his licence before promoting him. Though, this does not always have to happen it can happen when the school feels that they want to promote a teacher to an administrative position.
     
  13. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    124

    Jun 4, 2011

    You pretty much nailed it right here. One of the systemic problem in the teaching profession is the fact that a teachers job performance is pretty much disconnected from their ability to attain a leadership position. And by leadership position, I don't mean department head or committee chair - I mean principals or assistant principals.

    When a school district has to fill a principal or assistant principal position, they should be able to pick the best qualified person at that site to lead. Well, the problem is that in California they can only pick the best person at the site who happens to have an Administrative Credential. It takes two years to get an admin credential. Not very many people have them.

    What this does is it forces school to go "outside the organization" in order to find qualified management as opposed to "promoting from within." Now there are times when getting someone from the outside is a better course of action than promoting from within. But that decision should be based on what type of manager the school needs and whether or not there is a talented leader already working at the school.

    The other problem is this. In most professions, one of the main extrinsic motivators for performing well at one's job is the possibility of being the boss one day. You work hard, and you will get to move up. This is true in just about every company from McDonalds to Microsoft.

    Well, it's not true in teaching. Most teachers have pretty much resigned themselves to remaining teachers until the day they retire. Moreover, many actually make that decision from day one of their teaching career. I hate to say it, but I think one of the biggest problems in the teaching field is the lack of career mobility. Sure, you might get to be a department chair or grade level leader, and even get a small stipend for those duties. But never will you really move up.
     
  14. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    13,895
    Likes Received:
    1,731

    Jun 4, 2011

    In my school board, it would be extremely rare for someone who has been successful in going through the process to become an administrator to be placed at the school where they had taught. It's also rare for someone to move from VP to P at the same school.
     
  15. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    3

    Jun 4, 2011

    I'm not displeased that teachers aren't necessarily promoted—teaching just isn't that type of career. The majority of those great teachers you speak of want to stay put. If a school has team leaders or department chairs, those amazing teachers with leadership qualities, in addition to other characteristics, will fill those roles, which I suppose you could consider a promotion.
     
  16. marcus903

    marcus903 Companion

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 4, 2011

    That sucks big time.

    Here's my questions based on what you posted:

    Why can't a teacher move up? How are the teachers going to get their administrative degree or Administrative Credential?
     
  17. marcus903

    marcus903 Companion

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 4, 2011

    Here's my question:

    How is a teacher going to become an administrator?
     
  18. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    10,924
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 4, 2011

    If a teacher wants to be an administrator, they need to go back to college and get an administrative certificate (just like a teaching certificate). We do promote within district, but it is rare to promote to the same school.
     
  19. marcus903

    marcus903 Companion

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 4, 2011

    Oh, I get it now.

    If they want to become an administrator, they have to go back to college. Thanks for your help.
     
  20. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    124

    Jun 4, 2011

    Those things are not promotions. In the military we called those "additional duties."

    In order to get "promoted" you had to become the section chief, first sergeant, instructor, flight examiner, or, at the top, squadron commander. Most of these people spent the bulk of their time in the office running the squadron. They did still fly missions from time to time, but their primary job was making sure that we all stayed safe when we were in the air and stayed out of trouble when we were on the ground.

    The roles that you describe are akin to things we had like "Awards and Decorations NCO" or "Barracks Chief" or "Ground Safety Officer." Many of these positions were filled only after soliciting "volunteers." These jobs were not promotions, but rather, the things you did in order to get promoted.

    If the Air Force were run like California schools, I could have earned the eligibility to be squadron commander simply by serving four years in the Air Force and taking night classes for two years. After paying a $70 application fee, I would be able to apply for any open command position and immediately be given the rank that goes with that command. My only competition for those jobs would be other Air Force members who had the time and money to take the classes. Experienced veterans with solid leadership skills would not be eligible if they did not have the certificate.

    The bottom line is this. In most professions, the best get promoted. In education, the best with the proper credentials get promoted. The problem is that those with the credential are not necessarily the best.
     
  21. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    124

    Jun 4, 2011

    Right. Now here the problem. You have a bad teacher who hates teaching. There is a strong motivation for that person to go back to school and get an administrative credential. If they do, they can quite easily end up a principal or vice principal. I'm not saying that all or even many school leadership jobs get filled that way, but the system we have in place does not, in any way, reward good performance or reflect leadership ability.
     
  22. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    3

    Jun 4, 2011

    I said I suppose you could consider those roles a promotion because they 1) are given most often to the most qualified, 2) most often you are paid for the positions, and 3) there is often a sense of pride or accomplishment in being chosen for these roles as it speaks to your performance and ability. Teaching is obviously different from other professions, including the military.
     
  23. comaba

    comaba Cohort

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    1

    Jun 4, 2011

    Or, as it has been in my district for the past 5 years, the best-connected by social or familial ties, with the proper credentials, gets promoted.
     
  24. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    124

    Jun 4, 2011

    Actually, the similarities between teaching and the military are much greater than most people think. In fact, if you were to ask what civilian job would remind a person the most about being in the military, I'd have to say teaching would be in the top five.
     
  25. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,955
    Likes Received:
    2,107

    Jun 4, 2011

    Teachers do 'move up' in terms of years of seniority and movement on salary guides. As you've learned, professional educators CAN become administrators, but it's not the career path that most choose...many teachers want to TEACH and many new administrators miss the classroom. Great administrators never forget what it's truly like to be in the classroom.
    You seem to have a lot of strong opinions about teachers, administrators and the teaching profession, Marcus. I'm sure many of your opinions are based upon your status as a student, but please keep your naivety from labeling conditions of our profession as 'sucking'. :dizzy:
     
  26. marcus903

    marcus903 Companion

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 4, 2011

    These types of teachers should NOT be an administrator. Nobody wants to be in a school run by a jerk teacher. The system SHOULD be rewarding those nice teachers with good behavior within teacher instead of a teacher who thinks he has a right to torture his students. Just saying.
     
  27. marcus903

    marcus903 Companion

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 4, 2011

    Thanks for the tip and the information.

    So here is what I learned:

    -I learned that teachers will have to go back to school/college to get their administrative degree
    -Teachers can only be promoted to "Lead Teacher" and other leadership positions (with the exception of administration)
    -Teachers move up on seniority and salary meaning that their salary will go up a knotch every year.

    See? I posted some feedback on what I've learned based on the answers you guys have given me. Like it?
     
  28. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    13,895
    Likes Received:
    1,731

    Jun 4, 2011

    :)
     
  29. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,468
    Likes Received:
    2,485

    Jun 4, 2011

    The skillset that a great administrator needs is a lot different from the skillset that a great teacher needs. I think they are completely different types of jobs. It makes sense to me, therefore, that it's not a natural part of the process to promote great teachers to admin positions. If a teacher wants to become an administrator, he needs to become educated enough (and licensed) to do it, just like if he wanted to become a math teacher after teaching social studies. It wouldn't be a good thing to place a social studies teacher in a math class because he wanted to be in the math class if he didn't have the know-how to teach math. It would be a disaster.
     
  30. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    124

    Jun 4, 2011

    Ah, but what is and what should be are two different things.
     
  31. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,955
    Likes Received:
    2,107

    Jun 4, 2011

    :wow:
    'there you go again'. You'll find, Marcus, that the professional educators here do not denigrate students with terms such as 'jerk'. It would be appreciated if you would act in kind. Teachers generally don't have 'torturing' their students as a goal.:2cents:
     
  32. marcus903

    marcus903 Companion

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 4, 2011

    Sorry.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. K1teach,
  2. sevenplus,
  3. Vanillandaisies
Total: 709 (members: 5, guests: 684, robots: 20)
test