Punishment

Discussion in 'General Education' started by cheer, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. cheer

    cheer Comrade

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    Nov 4, 2012

    Ok, I'm an elem. teacher so we do not have punishment for not being able to grasp a concept. My nieces teacher sits anyone who can not complete a multiplication test in 2 min., on the curb for recess. They have to do flash cards on the curb during the entire recess for the whole week if they do not perform well on Mondays test. To me this is outragious! Does anyone else follow this same practice? If so can you please explain the motivation behind this practice? She now hates going to school! Oh and they are not doing anything else to help her master this skill. Please explain.
     
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  3. pwhatley

    pwhatley Maven

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    That's horrible! and. Never, never, never acceptable!
     
  4. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    That seems humiliating. :( If I were her parent, I'd be contacting the teacher, and possibly the principal, for an explanation of that practice.
     
  5. cheer

    cheer Comrade

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    Her mom is waiting for the teacher to call her back. It's been a week and a half. She did speak with the principle and he said he was not aware of this practice. He also said to give the teacher a chance to call her back but if she did not her from her to call him back. He's getting a call this week.
     
  6. cheer

    cheer Comrade

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    Her mom is waiting for the teacher to call her back. It's been a week and a half. She did speak with the principle and he said he was not aware of this practice. He also said to give the teacher a chance to call her back but if she did not her from her to call him back. He's getting a call this week.
     
  7. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    Nov 4, 2012

    A 'punishment' is supposed to be for behavior, except for it's more accurately called a consequence. NEVER for academic failure!!!

    I wouldn't wait for a week and a half for a teacher to call me back with an issue like this.
     
  8. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    Nov 5, 2012

    And what is the punishment for the teacher for not being able to teach the math facts?
     
  9. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Nov 5, 2012

    Time to up the ante and speak to the principal again. A week and a half without an response is inexcusable. If there were a crisis, the principal would know about it. In the absence of a crisis, this teacher needs to start acting like the professional she's supposed to be.
     
  10. hbcaligirl1985

    hbcaligirl1985 Cohort

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    And because of teachers like this is the reason I have a math 'road block'. I had a seventh grade teacher who basically wouldn't answer my questions anymore because I "wasn't grasping the concept and should stop wasting his time."

    The fact that this teacher would do that is disgusting, horrible and they should be fired.
     
  11. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    Nov 5, 2012

    I can see both sides of this (and I am the PE guy). I teach math to small groups each day and see 5th graders that will not memorize their mult. facts. I have one boy that still knows none after all kinds of incentives, help and encouragement. I know for fact he goes home and just plays video games. Zero effort. Maybe she has tried and tried to get those facts learned and is at the last method. All that said, kids need that activity time as badly as they do 7x8. Parent and teacher need to collaborate. When we stretch before PE I call out math problems and facts to quiz them.
     
  12. dr.gator

    dr.gator Comrade

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    Nov 5, 2012

    Like Coach here, I can see both sides. However, I have a problem with even sitting kids out of recess for not bringing back homework which a lot of teachers do where I work. I mean really? Whose responsibility is it to see that the child gets the homework done? I know it is all important in the general realm of things, but somewhere someone has to draw the line. I don't think I'd wait a week to talk to the P about this. I would have discussed it on the first day it happened and then we would have been working on math facts immediately, both teacher and student (in class) and parent and student (at home).
     
  13. Gaven32

    Gaven32 Rookie

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    Nov 5, 2012

    Punishment is not the right way to teach the students. Punishment meas you indulge knowledge by force in the mind of students. So its not the right way of teaching, we have to avoid it.
    http://www.glenvalesupportedliving.com.au/
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  14. thirdgradebuzz

    thirdgradebuzz Comrade

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    Nov 5, 2012

    I see both sides, too. When I used to teach third grade math, I was a self proclaimed fact-pusher, because memorization of basic facts is essential to solving word problems and higher level problems. I gave timed quizzes to my students all the time. I did make modifications for those with special education issues, but the rest of the class generally just weren't studying if they couldn't pass. I totally see why the teacher would think studying at recess was appropriate, but a better choice would have been having the student do extra practice sheets for homework during the week or to write the facts x number of times to boost memorization.
     
  15. pwhatley

    pwhatley Maven

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    Nov 5, 2012

    I am a first grade fact-pusher, because I agree - math facts must just be ingrained in rote memory to allow for higher level functioning (word problems, etc.). However, I would never humiliate a child for not being able to complete a timed test - instead, I would offer extra practice.
     
  16. Lisabobisa

    Lisabobisa Comrade

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    Nov 5, 2012

    I will never EVER forget being given one of my only detentions in fifth grade for "not studying" my 4, 6, 7, and 8 times table facts. I spent HOURS studying the facts with flashcards and writing out the facts with my mom the night before the test. The teacher gave it to us orally and I couldn't say any of them. She excused me of not studying...

    My mom was not happy, and made that known. The next day, the teacher gave me a written test, and I received a 100%... easily. All I needed was to have it presented in a different way.

    But I will never forget that feeling of worthlessness and stupidity that the teacher gave me. That also influenced my negative feelings about math ever since.

    ETA: Still to this day, I cannot do math orally or mentally easily. I HAVE to see it written down.
     
  17. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    Nov 5, 2012

    This punishment is just wrong. Students may need to have a consequence for misbehavior or missing work, but to punish a child who doesn't do well on a test in elementary school? I don't agree with this.

    I teach 5th grade, I know how frustrating it is to have students enter 5th grade not knowing their multiplication/division facts. Punishment isn't a great tool, but when it is used, it should be reserved for bad choices students make. A number of elementary students who do poorly in math are trying, they just need some help from caring teachers and parents--not punishments.
     
  18. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

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    Nov 5, 2012

    This I do. There is certain homework that if the students do not return in completed they sit out recess. I have to have some motivation to try and get them to complete it. So they sit out and work on what that assignment was. Gotta get it done at some point. And my class does not get recess everyday.
     
  19. queenie

    queenie Groupie

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    Nov 6, 2012

    It's the CHILD'S responsibility to get the homework done, and there's only a handful of reasons why it doesn't get done.

    That's why any time a child does not bring back homework I have him/her complete it during recess.

    1) They just don't want to do it. If a child just didn't want to do it, then the time s/he spent NOT doing it was likely time s/he spent playing. So now s/he can trade in some play time for work time that should have taken place the evening before.

    2) They don't know how to do it. I don't think this happens often since I only assign work that the kiddos are capable of. They may not know how to do ALL of it, but they are all capable of asking for help or at least doing PART of it- and they know that I will accept partial assignments and help them work through anything they didn't understand when they come back to school.

    3) They lose it or leave it at school. This is just a simple lesson in consequences. If they forget to take it home, it's like me forgetting my keys. I have to take a different route to solve my problem- get a sub key from the office and return it at the end of the day. They will simply have to work on it during any down time in class or finish it up at the beginning of recess.

    4) They genuinely forget to do it. See #3.

    I must say that I rarely give homework as practice because so often kids that need help with a concept (especially Math) don't have anyone to help them at home. But when I do give homework, it is the child's responsibility to do it and to bring it back. Period.
     
  20. CindyBlue

    CindyBlue Cohort

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    Nov 6, 2012

    :) This!
     
  21. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

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    Nov 6, 2012

    Agreed. I have my own unwritten rule that parents need to be contacted within 24 hours of them contacting me.
     
  22. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Nov 6, 2012

    Consequences should be relevant, related and respectful. A failing grade on an assessment is a consequence. That assessment sent home for parent signature with a note encouraging practice is a consequence. Missing recess for not knowing math facts is not a consequence. It doesn't fit the 3 Rs. And as punishment, it just leads to resentment and avoidance. Sad.:(
     
  23. cheer

    cheer Comrade

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    Nov 6, 2012

    Update

    Ok mom talked to teacher via email. The teacher thought she was upset with her using flash cards. My sister in law stated she did not want her sitting on the curb any more. Guess what...the very next day she was on the curb. She talked to the teacher again and said she should NEVER be on the curb and for the teacher to send home the fact practice sheets and she will monitor the time. We will see, they have a meeting set for conferences. By the way.. The teacher was not apologetic and does not see the wrong in her practices. Sad!
     
  24. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Nov 6, 2012

    Now it's time for a chat with the P.
     
  25. yarnwoman

    yarnwoman Cohort

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    Nov 6, 2012

    I agree it is time for a talk with the P. I teach 3rd grade and we give timed tests. I agree that students need to have the facts ingrained into their heads but for some kids that will not come until later in life.

    I am speaking from experience here. Growing up I hated math with a passion. We moved a lot and math was always hard. In 7th grade I was moved from a math class I really, really wanted to take. I was moved to quote the teacher "to the dumb kids class" because I could not complete a timed test in the teachers allotted time. SO my 7th grade math class was a joke. The teacher was from Africa and the class walked all over him. What I remember from that class is stories about aborigines and how this teacher sat at the back of the class while students talked and threw airplanes.

    Later in life (post Bachelors degree) I learned I was dyslexic. But I still feel that comment from that teacher about going to the dumb kids class. When my students are struggling I work with them and their parents to get them better. I hope your sister in law is able to find a resolution to this even if it has to go to the P.
     

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