Pull-out Problem

Discussion in 'Elementary Education Archives' started by 5thgraderocks, Dec 27, 2005.

  1. 5thgraderocks

    5thgraderocks Companion

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    Fifth Graders have the opportunity to join band. Many already are involved in the Suzuki Strings Program. Here is the problem. 27 of my 31 fifth graders take band, orchestra or both. Individual lessons are 30 minutes long + 10 minutes travel time. Full Group Band rehearsal is scheduled right in the middle of ILA (45 minutes). Three days per week, I have kids running in and out for their band lessons. It would be impossible to reteach everything they miss. According to our principal, lessons cannot be scheduled during any "specials" (PE, MUSIC, ART) This leaves math, ILA, Social Studies or Science. Is this unique to our district? How do you handle pull-outs?
     
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  3. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

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    When I was a kid I took piano during school for 2 years (it was after school the rest of the time.) When it was at school it was during PE, that was the only time that was allowed. I can't imagine them letting the kids be pulled out of content area instruction.
     
  4. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    I would go nuts if they pulled out my kids during core academics. Our 6th-8th graders have one period twice a week for wheel - rotating schedule of arts classes. That's when they go to Suzuki (which is right next door). When I was in middle school (ages ago) we had to come in early or stay late for band.
     
  5. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    When I was in 5th grade, they had everyone going to Music class at the same time. This was the year we decided if we wanted to be in band or not. If you decided to do it you went to band instruction. They had a woodwind teacher, a brass teacher, and a percussion teacher. If you didn't decide to do band you went to choir.
     
  6. boogaboo214

    boogaboo214 Companion

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    here in my town if you choose to do band in sixth grade you go to band where they split you up or you go to explatoritory (sp) classes so you can take things like home ec. and you dont get to pick what you take with these classes. I personally took band but the only problem with band is you have to buy your own instruments . I am a true trumpet player could not do a small quiet girly flute if i tried. no offense to any flute players
     
  7. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    Our school has a very large music program, so you can check out some of the school instruments. I played clarinet during marching season, and bass clarinet during the concert season. I just had to borrow the schools bass. I now own my own, plus my soprano clar., alto clar., and piano. Oh, yeah...I'm big into music.
     
  8. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    Ahem.... I am a small flute player - or I was small at the time. I started in 5th grade.
     
  9. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    I was small then too. "Sigh"...the good old days.
     
  10. kinderkids

    kinderkids Virtuoso

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    I play the flute but also played the french horn..........talk about a size difference.....lol!!! Anyhow, when I was in band in middle school I had to make up any work missed outside of school (um......homework!) I was in a parochial school and lost even more academic time because of travel time.......had to walk quite a ways to the middle school. If we were to be in band, we had to prove ourselves very responsible and academically capable of doing the work outside of class. We weren't given any breaks and had to keep up with those who were in class.
     
  11. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    5th grade rocks, our school does the same thing. It was a major problem, but the music teacher & class teachers got together and now pretty much each class room has a section (small school) of the band ie. all clarinet players in one room.

    I know they pretty much try to do catch up work or work on AR test or something of that nature so the kids don't miss much..hope this helps.

    Miss W...clarinet player til 9th grade then bass clarinet. Can play a little sax & trumpet.

    Kinder my sis played flute then switched to Bari Sax...now there's a size difference!!!
     
  12. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    DTR-I loved playing bass. Won many awards in high school. I also did Choir! We had a block schedule in high school, so half my day was music. Was it any wonder that I went on to major in music?!
     
  13. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    MW..I loved the bass too. I played it for concert freshman yr & never went back. Even though we were little our band on many awards as well. I did solo ensemble one year, the nite before I found out I had strep, but I was doing a duet & couldn't let my best friend down. We got a 1!!!! I did choir for a year. I also did pep band.
     
  14. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    I want to make a shadow box with all my band awards. I think that would be a neat memento. I never bought a letter jacket so I have all my patches in a little ceder box I got when I graduated. Our band was 160+ members. It's a very big thing in our town. Lots of marching and orchestra contests. We also host 2 large contests each year. It's so fun. Our band also travels alot.
    Solo/Ensemble events were fun too. All the music we had for bass clarinets was too easy. We ended up get clarinet music and trumpet music. I tried out for All Region/All State every year and made it too. My senior year I actually got to teach individual lessons to freshmen and sophmores trying out. It was lots of fun. Came the day for tryouts and I realized that I hadn't practiced at all. Went in and sight read everything, and made 1st band 1st chair. That was exciting. My down fall was always the scales. They didn't teach us scales in band besides the Concert Bb scale. I always had to wing it. I played it as fast as I could so maybe the judges wouldn't notice. :D It wasn't until college when I was taking piano lessons that I actually learned my scales. Now I can do them!
    Man do I miss those days.
     
  15. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    We hd to learn all our scales. Small band under 50 people. If we wanted to challenge for 1st chair you got more points if you coulddo more than 1 octive of scales.

    Now i'm going to sound cheesy, but week long band camp...the best!!! Playing at Disney & Sea world. Our fun trips for pep band & end of the year trips were great!!!

    I did have a letter coat, but too many band medals & I was a jock!!! ;)
     
  16. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    Those medals can start to weigh you down. How funny. I didn't even go to band camp until after I graduated. I went as a senior, but would be going to college the next year. It was all about prepping you for All State tryouts. It was a blast though. It was really neat to be taught by the college profs that were normally teaching the music majors at that school.
     
  17. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    Our camp was to learn marching program. Being so little, just about everyone in band played sports as well.
     
  18. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    Our band starts 3 weeks before school begins, to begin learning the marching program. Some athletes can do both sports and band. Band is too time consumming. You can manage it if you are in track, cheerleading, vollyball, swimming, golfing, softball/baseball, or tennis. If you're in football or basketball there's no way.
     
  19. Missy

    Missy Aficionado

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    My daughter who is a junior is a band fanatic! She does concert, marching, pep, jazz and is in the pit orchestra for the musical. She plays clarinet and piano, and fools around on the sax. She does not plan to major in music in college, but she wants to stay active in music and even be in marching band. She is looking for a college right now, and their marching band is one of her priorities!
     
  20. GlendaLL

    GlendaLL Aficionado

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    Missy - My son was the same way! He plays the trumpet. During high school, he was in marching, pep, and concert band. He was in the pit orchestra for his senior year - Ragtime.

    One of the reasons he chose the University of Cincinnati is the great band they have there! The director, Dr. Terren Frenz, is fabulous! The students love him! In the spring, there will be a "Be a Bearcat Band Member" for a day. We went to that with our son. It was a great experience and definitely helped him decide on being a Bearcat Band member. He loves the UC Band! On New Year's Eve, about 25 members of the UC Band will be playing with the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra. We have our tickets ready! (Last year the Marching Band flew down to Ft. Worth, TX - for the Fr. Worth Bowl game. Band members do not pay for any of those kinds of trips.)

    Check: www.ucband.uc.edu
     
  21. boogaboo214

    boogaboo214 Companion

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    our band camp was two weeks long in the middle of july and we only learned the first part of our marching routine. We were a band of over 200. Anyone ever heard of Contest of Champions hosted at Middle Tennessee State University.That was the big contest for our school I think as of now they have won it seven or eight times. The band director there retired last year. He made that band. That has been his heart and soul for over 20 years. But I agree I miss those days.
     
  22. leighbball

    leighbball Virtuoso

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    AT my school, choir and band and orchestra have practice and lessons at any time of the day, including core content classes. the students are required to sign a contract at the beginning of the year (along with their parents) stating that if they do not keep up with the missed schoolwork they will not be allowed to participate. It can be frsutrating for the classroom teachers, but overall it works out. The classroom teachers work closely with the instrumental and vocal teachers at my school:)
     
  23. ohteach

    ohteach Companion

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    Ok I must admit I was a HUGE Bando in High School. I played Bass Clairnet in the Symphonic Band and was in the Flag Corp for Marhcing Band. I was also in Band Council for 3 out of my four years for Marching Band. I LOVED Marching Band. I acutally did 2 years in college at the Univeristy of Toledo in their Flag Line. I think one day I may try and go back to my old HIgh School and volunteer some time to the Marching Band. I had the best time going to Band Camp. WE were lucky enough to go to a nice camp my last two years which was on the shores of Lake Erie (the clean part). I had a blast! Writing this makes me miss those times!
     
  24. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    Well, at least we're not completely off topic. ;) I haven't played in a year and I miss it. I wish I could find time to do the community band here. I played in it when I was in high school, but when I got to college I never had time. Still don't even though I'm not working as many hours or taking all those classes. Maybe someday.
     
  25. kinderkids

    kinderkids Virtuoso

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    Miss W, I kind of have the same wish as you.......I really want to play in our local symphony (piano).........I just don't think I'd find the time either, but it has always been a desire of mine.
     
  26. bina1357

    bina1357 Companion

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    Wow! Its neat to read everyone's band stories. I am also a fellow band member-flute & piccolo. I was section leader for 2 years in high school & loved it! I ended up getting an "emphasis" in band in case I wanted to become a director. I just liked to dabble in it. I played in a semi-professsional orchestra after college graduation. Now I teach dance & am doing my master's I don't have time. :( But, in doing band, I traveled to New York (for Macy's Day Parade), California (Rose Bowl & Holiday Bowl parades) and did many competitions around our state of AZ.

    Now that I see many of my 4th graders sign up for band (being the 1st year they're allowed) it brings back so many memories. Yet, as a teacher I see how frustrating it is. Our beginning band students go to a 45 minute period of band with their own instrument. They only go twice a week. Some miss Writing, some miss Social STudies, some miss Science. We have "band buddies" which are students who aren't in band that keep track of what we do. Band students come back & talk to them about their work. So far, it hasn't been too bad. Before xmas break there was a beginning band rehearsal...all band students left at the same time. I had about half my class left. We did something that didn't go in the gradebook.

    Tina :)
     
  27. kinderkids

    kinderkids Virtuoso

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    It is refreshing to see that band programs still exist!!!! They are so awesome and that is what kids need to be involved in if they hope to "make it" in music some day. The AMerican Idol shows have done nothing to help kids realize that in order to really be a musician, you need to STUDY music........not just come in off the street and audition!!! I get so mad when I see all this synthesized crap on radio today...........how many of these "stars" can actually read music yet alone compose it!!! (sorry.......I needed to get that out!!!)
     
  28. PenCelia

    PenCelia Rookie

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    I teach 5th grade too and this problem exists in my school too. The week before xmas we had extra pull outs because of the concert. We don't even start the day with all the kids on time. We have morning news group that usually come in late. Tuesday and wednesday we have the children being pulled out for lessons. That isn't quite so bad as Wednesdays. Every Wednesday is a half day anyway so it doesn't seem like much academics are accomplished. Chorus and drum group meet from 11:05-12:05. The other 5th grade teacher and I finally pulled the kids we have left together. It's about 8 kids. Every other week I have all of them for study skills. It's funny most of the kids that need it aren't there but at least its something that I don't have to reteach to the other students. Our school also has the golden hour which is when everyone teaches reading. No one can take a child out of this time.

    On the other subject I started playing trumpet in 4th grade. Competed in high school marching band playing baritone horn. I also did marching band soph year in college. Gota love the cold weather!
     
  29. txmomteacher2

    txmomteacher2 Enthusiast

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    I too am an admitted band geek. I played the flute and the piccolo from the 5th grade. I was in the flag corp for several years. I was also section leader my senior year for marching season. I just found out recently that my beloved band director passed away not to long ago. I balled like a baby when I read is obituary in our local newspaper. I saw more of him than I did my own father during high school so I called him Daddy. I loved football games. Band was the only reason why I stayed in school. I can't imagine not having band. Now I am a band Mom. My son stared playing trumpet several years ago and if I do say so myself he is pretty good. He has never been lower than 3rd chair. Next year starts marching band for him and I can't wait. Football games, cold weather, and my son marching for the same band that I marched in when I was high school. Cant wait!!!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2006
  30. 5thgraderocks

    5thgraderocks Companion

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    :eek:
    I have nothing against Band! I played clarinet (ages ago) and my daughter successfully completed the entire Suzuki Violin course and taught beginners to work her way through college. It's an awesome opportunity!! I think the original question got lost in reminiscing!!!
    My dilemma is the PULL OUT time. :confused:

    I wish we did have a clause in the band sign-up requiring class work is complete. We don't! The philosophy in our district is that a child who is not academically successful may find success in the arts, including band.

    Seriously ... a fifth grader reading below grade level or one who has not mastered basic math facts should NOT be pulled from the core classes (Am I just too old???) With class size at 30+ there's no possible way to reteach when the kids are in and out all day long!!

    I can see how so many of you loved the memories, medals and trophies ... BUT ... you can read and probably do at least basic math computations! Some of my kids can't!!

    I'm sorry to sound so negative, but the hours spent in school have remained the same in the twenty years I've been teaching 5th Grade. What have we added to the curriculum in this time? TESTING (LOTS), Band, Orchestra, Japanese (30 minutes daily K-5), Guidance, DARE Program, AIDS Unit taught by district nurse, Sticks and Stones Bully Program, Computer keyboarding, etc. etc. It seems (and I have writing samples to back it) that writing skills are deteriorating, spelling is atrocious, and kids don't enter middle school with solid mastery of basic fractions, multiplication and decimals.

    Selecting "general music" OR band is the proposal we have presented ... without success. Let's face it ... If the kids can't read and do basic math, they won't get to high school!
     
  31. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

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    I am still amazed that they are pulling from core areas. We had PE at band time. (With athletic PE) We were never pulled from other classes for it. If you have parents that you know you can work with you might want to meet with them, express your concerns, and get them to approach administration. If your school is like mine, that would have a bigger impact. Good luck!
     
  32. bina1357

    bina1357 Companion

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    Our band students are expected to make up work missed. Some of the band times are during Writing. It is difficult for some children & I know a few of my colleagues who have recommended to parents & went through with pulling students out of band until they can get back on track. Most of our kids do fine with it. Some are lucky becuase their band class lands during one of our specials. It is a bitter sweet issue I believe. We want the kids to be well rounded & learning an instrument can have positive lasting effects on a child yet they miss almost 2 hours a week and can fall behind. :( It is a difficult one and I have yet to find an answer to this problem.
     
  33. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    I am soooo with you, 5thgraderocks.
     
  34. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    If they don't have the basic math and reading skills, then they might not survive in band. You'd be surprised at how much of these are needed to be truly successful in music.
    Is there any way for a general music time, and have the students choose between band or choir. I really worked for us.
     
  35. txmomteacher2

    txmomteacher2 Enthusiast

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    Guess we are lucky Band isnt a pull out here. It's a regular class. If the kids want to sign up for it it is part of there schedule. They start in 6th grade. The 6th grade band is usually huge and gets smaller every year that the kids continue. By the time they get to high school maybe 20 out of the 100 are in the high school band as freshman.
     
  36. HSinger

    HSinger Rookie

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    Ok...I teach Music/Art. 3rd-6th this year, and I'm supposed to have 1st-6th next year. We build it into our schedule. I see a class every 45 minutes. I have the problem you have. Every day someone "new" is being pulled out to go do something else (speech, voyager, tutoring, basic skills). In Texas by Law every student K-6 has to have so many minutes a week of P.E., Music & Art. I start my lessons with who is there at that moment. If I have some that come in late...I either hand them what we are doing or have them join right in where we are at that time. Most of the students try to help the "late" comers catch up quickly. I usually go around and make sure they all know the assignment. It is very difficult to overcome, however it's a situation I've had to learn to deal with even though it bothers the crap out of me!
     

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