Poop on purpose - HELP

Discussion in 'Special Education' started by SpecialPreskoo, Nov 3, 2008.

  1. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    5,009
    Likes Received:
    391

    Nov 3, 2008

    I have one SPE student who likes to poop in her pants during naptime just because she can. She has PLENTY of chances to go to the potty. She goes right before she lays down and usually gestures to go at least 3 times during naptime whether she needs to go or not. Well, she has started making it a habit of at least 2-3 times a week of pooping in her panties after having the chance to go to the potty. Today it wasn't even 5 minutes since she was in there that she had messed in her pants.

    A little info: she has limited language skills but is able to let us know when to go. Sensory issues. Behavioral issues: stubborn, mean streaks, defiant spells, pushes her limits. Defiant in time-out. She won't stay facing the corner. Gets burnt out on tangible rewards. Understands that when mom comes and picks her up that I will tell on her and starts whimpering or crying when mom gets here before I even say a word to mom.

    So! Got any tips? ANYONE? We've tried sitting on the toilet for longer periods until she does go but that can end up being 30 mins if we let it. I'd hate to know I had to sit on the pot for that long.

    Oh and she is 4 turning 5 this month. Mom plans on placing her in regular K next year, so this needs to be nipped in the bud NOW.


    Thanks!
     
  2.  
  3. AMK

    AMK Aficionado

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,019
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 3, 2008

    Can you avoid nap time and have her do something else during that time?
     
  4. teachersk

    teachersk Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,872
    Likes Received:
    1

    Nov 3, 2008

    Something that works really well for my severe to profound kids (autism) is praising them before they even have a chance to do anything wrong.

    Catch her (in that five minutes!) NOT pooping in her pants... and bring over a certificate, a treat, hugs, kisses, high fives, social praise, etc. "WOW, ___ that's the way a big girl keeps her pants clean!"

    Try to give her as much ATTENTION as POSSIBLE for the positive side, and as LITTLE attention as possible for the negative side. Surprisingly enough, a lot of kids ENJOY the negative attention (i.e., telling mom when she gets there, etc.)

    I'd have a few things ready, toilet her, send her over for nap time, and literally 30 seconds into it - PRAISE HER for not pooping in her pants, "that's a big girl, wow, I'm so proud, you smarty!!" (How long is nap time, a half hour? twenty minutes?)

    See if the initial praise works. I'd continue praising every couple minutes or so with social praise. IF she poops.... do a lot of gestures, non verbal prompts, no eye contact. DONT feed into it by giving the negative attention of a lecture "Why'd you do that..." "Big girls don't DO this.." "We JUST went to the bathroom," etc. Really, to some kids, any attention is exciting. I'd take her to the bathroom, clean her up, give her no attention, etc. Then, bring her back to nap time, give it a couple of minutes, PRAISE, etc.

    IF she makes it through the nap time with NO accidents, HUGE praises, "we're so excited to tell mommy, " etc. Maybe make a calendar for her with stars on it, ONE STAR on your calendar for no poopies today! Hooray! Let's do it AGAIN tomorrow! Literally, draw as much attention to her as POSSIBLE and make yourself SILLY with giving out attention.

    We do a lot of social praise in my class, catching the kids BEFORE they're able to throw a meltdown: example --- I have a student who does not like to relinquish the computer. When I say it's time to work, he will stand up, push his chair in, and then without intervention --- he would IMMEDIATELY drop to the floor and begin to scream, whine, throw things, become aggressive, etc. SO we started this thing where I'd say, "3-2-1 time to work!" And as SOON as he stood up, we'd start screaming (my four assistants and I!) "HOORAY ____! YAY FOR ___! ____ LISTENED TO HIS TEACHER!!!!!!" and he would get this huge smile.... and probably think to himself "I can't drop to the floor now!? I'm the center of attention!" It works SO well for my guys.

    I think if you applied this to your POOP situation it might be helpful. Be patient with it. Try it out!

    (on a side note, a student of mine got poop EVERYWHERE today, hands, fingernails, lunch table, carpet, chair... because he somehow managed to wipe his bum without us noticing and he must have had some in his underwear!? I don't even know how it happened but I've never had such a gross day at school.)
     
  5. Giggles1100

    Giggles1100 Comrade

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 4, 2008

    Yes, it i is so easy to be negative and focus on the negative and that is what they want because they want the attention, not that you are ignoring her,k but some of those autistic kids want your atten 24/7 and get that home, so if they are not getting 24/7 from you, which they cannot since you have other students they will do whatever neccessary to get attention, so go for the positive and do it alot, then back off after a few days until you are only giving it once during naptime.

    The other question I have is does she nap? Some kids because of their medication or disability,just do not sleep and this quiet time you are giving them may be overloading their senses with the hum of the lights or things going on in the room and their body simply must move or do something. I know we relish naptime for the class, btu it can be more troublesome if you have a student who cannot nap and if that is the case make her a nap schedule for her to follow and have her do stations you know she can do by herself during naptime, that way you get a few free moments to do your work. That way if she likes coloring and can do it quietly, let her do 2 pages, then move to a sand table, put together puzzles etc. Things she can do quietly, if she gets noisy on one thing move her to something that she is not noisy to do. Even if she cannot do it all by herself give her a few days and she will figure out what she is suppose to do and will eventually start doing it herself.

    Hope we help you some.
     
  6. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    5,009
    Likes Received:
    391

    Nov 4, 2008

    To answer questions... does she nap? no but she is to lay there on her mat like another student does. She doesn't have to sleep, but if she would just lay there, I'm fine with that.

    She is not autistic, she does have apraxia, some sensory issues (doesn't feel pain or cold like we do), and a mean streak. Today toward the end of PE she whacked another student upside the head with a scooter board just because. She's spent the rest of the day in isolation and is now laying down for nap. I put a pull up on her in case she does poop. I let her sit on the potty for 15+ mins and all she did was tee tee.

    Letting her do other stuff during nap is not an option, coloring, her own centers, etc. She gets wound up and wakes up the others. I've had others that could do something like that without disturbing others and I've had some that just could not function during naptime because cognitively they just didn't grasp the idea of staying on their mat even if they didn't want to sleep. I understand about having those other options but she understands enough to know that she needs to stay on her mat and not poop in her pants in order to avoid nap. When she goes to regular K, she will be expected to follow the routine there, so she needs to start doing that now.

    I've had her for two years... too much positive reinforcement would wind her up, too. She would get all loud and giggly and they it wouldn't phase her enough to keep doing good. This child has been one puzzle after another.

    Thanks for the ideas... any others would be appreciated!
     
  7. WaterfallLady

    WaterfallLady Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,061
    Likes Received:
    2

    Nov 4, 2008

    I had a 19 year old camper with Prader-Willi Syndrome who loved peeing her pants just to make people mad/ get attention. One thing that really helped was making her help us clean up. Once we started doing that, the peeing decreased.

    I know the child is very young, but can you do anything to have her clean it up so she realizes the consequences? What about setting her on the potty during her favorite activity to make sure she doesn't poop her pants until she can keep her panties clean like a big girl?
     
  8. Special-t

    Special-t Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,019
    Likes Received:
    19

    Nov 4, 2008

    I'm just passing by to read and learn more about special ed. I have to say that you all are doing such an amazing job working with kids who many people would turn their back on in a heartbeat.
    I don't know what these kids would do without kind and dedicated teachers such as yourselves. I know it's rewarding, but it must be such a challenge at times.
     
  9. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    5,009
    Likes Received:
    391

    Nov 5, 2008

    Well, I put a pull-up on her and told her that I refused to let her poop in her panties and if she pooped in her pull-up that she would go to time out in another teacher's room (and she doesn't like going to the other room). So far, 2 afternoons and no poop at naptime. I'm going to be out out tomorrow. I hope she doesn't poop in them because I'm not there.

    Though, yesterday she knew she better not get into anymore trouble. She whacked another child in the head with a scooter board during adaptive PE and spent the rest of the day in isolation from the other students. I told her I was calling mom and that upset her, too. Mom was fine with the isolation. I'm pretty sure she got in trouble at home, too.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. vickilyn,
  2. Ima Teacher,
  3. YoungTeacherGuy,
  4. waterfall,
  5. Mr.history,
  6. Hazel Frank,
  7. MntnHiker
Total: 300 (members: 7, guests: 269, robots: 24)
test