Photocopying workbooks.

Discussion in 'General Education' started by ecteach, Sep 19, 2015.

  1. ecteach

    ecteach Devotee

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    85

    Sep 19, 2015

    Would you take a stand if (hypothetically) your county was making you use a program for which they will not buy the corresponding workbooks? Or, would you just suck it up and photocopy the workbooks, or project the page, and do it together?

    Someone I know :whistle: is really torn over this.
     
  2.  
  3. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,678
    Likes Received:
    1,615

    Sep 19, 2015

    I would, first, project the pages, and , second (if that couldn't be done) do the copying.

    It's not a hill I want to die on.
     
  4. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,004
    Likes Received:
    1,820

    Sep 19, 2015

    Agreed.
     
  5. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,441
    Likes Received:
    1,452

    Sep 19, 2015

    This is against the law in CA (Williams vs. California). Every student must have their own textbook and ancillary materials (aka workbooks).
     
  6. ecteach

    ecteach Devotee

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    85

    Sep 19, 2015

    VERY interesting. I'll have to look up that case.
     
  7. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,075
    Likes Received:
    15

    Sep 19, 2015

    Is it safe to assume that this is only for district adopted/mandated materials? Just wondering.
     
  8. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes Received:
    165

    Sep 19, 2015

    As long as my school was making the copies in a timely manner I wouldn't care.

    I worked at a private school a few years ago that had us "create" workbooks and had them bound and copied at staples. They thought this would save money and said since we don't use a set curriculum teachers could make it their own.

    I had them copy workbooks from a reading and math program we were already using.
     
  9. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,746
    Likes Received:
    1,155

    Sep 19, 2015

    The California state constitution specifies that each pupil is entitled to a free and appropriate public education. The Williams settlement is intended to ensure that inability to pay is no bar. It would certainly apply in the situation ecteach cites: if the program is mandated, the appropriate materials MUST be provided at no cost to the individual student. But Williams has also been held to apply to other school activities: for instance, a school may not charge a lab fee for science classes (though the school CAN collect for equipment broken in the course of a science class, nor may it charge a participation fee for a marching band class (though parents can, I think, be encouraged to donate).
     
  10. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,746
    Likes Received:
    1,155

    Sep 19, 2015

    Photocopying consumable program materials (read: workbooks that are intended for one-time use) raises the issue of copyright infringement. I doubt most publishers would go after an individual school, but a district or county is a much deeper-pocketed target, and it is likely to have employees who Should Have Known Better as part of their jobs.
     
  11. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    6,000
    Likes Received:
    861

    Sep 19, 2015

    At my last school my principal made us do these "test prep" passages with questions every week. She bought one workbook per grade level, and made us re-type the passages and questions and print them out since photocopying it would have been copyright infringement :rolleyes:.
     
  12. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Sep 19, 2015

    Pretty sure this is the case.
    At my site, we create our own math and novel study activities, yet se must have a math textbook and an anthology for every student in the class.

    Most sit on the shelves or in cupboards all year, but they must bein the room and one for each student.
     
  13. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,441
    Likes Received:
    1,452

    Sep 19, 2015

    Yikes! I wasn't clear, Giraffe!

    Yes--the law applies to district adopted materials!
     
  14. ecteach

    ecteach Devotee

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    85

    Sep 19, 2015

    The material absolutely has a copyright, and this "friend" has to copy it herself.
     
  15. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes Received:
    165

    Sep 19, 2015

    It definitely is illegal, but ask yourself this: Is this a battle your "friend" wants to fight? Is it worth it with any other potential things that could result from complaining/reporting?

    Will fighting this battle cause your admin to now "keep an eye on you" and then try to sabotage your career?

    It may not be right to copy, but is it worth the battle?
     
  16. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,075
    Likes Received:
    15

    Sep 19, 2015

    Question to the OP- is there a hard copy of the text book provided?
    I ask because I've only worked for one district (out of five total) that purchased the workbooks. We had to use the textbook (or in one case, create our own curriculum). Even the K-2 people had only hard cover texts.
     
  17. El sol

    El sol Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    4

    Sep 20, 2015

    For workbooks, it really depends on the publisher. While all want to protect the intellectual property, a few don't mind the photocopying of workbook pages as long as it not for massive distribution. Ask your district upfront what you can and can't do.

    Software itself is tricky as well. I remember asking a district once about this. Publishers were contacted about the matter and they said copying from the workbook was prohibited but making copies from the accompanying software was allowed. I of course thought it was dumb because a digital copy of the workbook came in the software. So that loophole was abused and enjoyed thoroughly.
     
  18. ms.irene

    ms.irene Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,565
    Likes Received:
    744

    Sep 21, 2015

    Yup, we do this. We make copies of the consumable workbook that goes along with the text, upon specific directions from the dept. head to do so. I believe the text is out of print (old edition) so I am telling myself that I'm in the clear. It's really the district that should be providing updated materials and enough copies for students, but as others have said, I am not going to be the one to "die on this hill" (at least not until I'm tenured!).
     
  19. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,640
    Likes Received:
    57

    Sep 21, 2015

    I hear you on not wanting to make this a big issue, but it steams me. We work hard to teach our students about fair use, proper citations, etc, and here we are modeling unethical behavior.

    What's the difference between this sort of thing and downloading a movie?
     
  20. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3,526
    Likes Received:
    1,845

    Sep 21, 2015

    As long as there is no copyright infringement or other legal quandries, I'd go along with whatever the plan was. That is just me.

    I'm noticing there are some curriculums popping up that are going with the way of technology... no official workbooks (though many times pages just for copying as needed), just material and various things you might need or want to teach. Kind of a "here's the stuff, put it together yourself as you want it" approach.

    That's different from sneaking around photocopying copyrighted workbooks. Which begs the question, at some point doesn't copying it oneself reach the same price range as just buying the darn books?
     
  21. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3,526
    Likes Received:
    1,845

    Sep 21, 2015

    I'd probably be blowing an anonymous whistle in this case. Somebody above isn't going to be happy.
     
  22. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,770
    Likes Received:
    1,002

    Sep 21, 2015

    I don't think that necessarily means that the district/school needs to buy workbooks though. They can easily just force the teachers to copy the workbook pages.

    I used to copy the workbook pages until I found the PDFs (which look nicer). I prefer it that way anyway, since we end up only using about a quarter to a half of the workbook, and then it gets tossed. It's also an extra thing to carry around and I'd just rather all of their work was in one place (their binder). I do waste paper on that, but I'm okay if it keeps kids more organized.
     
  23. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,441
    Likes Received:
    1,452

    Sep 21, 2015

    I don't know if your site gets a Williams Act visitation each year or not, but we do.

    This year (last week, actually), the visitors from the state came to my school and wanted to see the actual purchase order (check) and invoice (from the publisher) showing that the workbooks we bought are on back order.

    When they visit each classroom, they say something along the lines of, "Okay, boys and girls--hold up your Social Studies textbook. Next, hold up your Science workbook..." and so on. They keep track of whether or not each student has the necessary textbooks and supplementary workbooks.
     
  24. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,770
    Likes Received:
    1,002

    Sep 22, 2015

    Wow! We get the notices that we have to put up in our room, but nothing like that.
     
  25. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,746
    Likes Received:
    1,155

    Sep 22, 2015

    YTG, I suspect your district has come to the state's notice with Williams violations before.

    Peregrin, unless the language of the textbook contract, or language in the workbooks, explicitly states that pages may be photocopied for school use, your district or school may be skating on thin ice, copyright-wise.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. Missy
Total: 153 (members: 3, guests: 131, robots: 19)
test