permission slip to use corporal punishment??

Discussion in 'General Education' started by sk8enscars311, May 29, 2009.

  1. sk8enscars311

    sk8enscars311 Companion

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    I witnessed something rather disturbing in the Kindergarten classroom the other day. I took the kids down because they ran into my music classroom and some kids got hurt. I took them back to "try again". Meanwhile their teacher brought them in for a little chat.

    When the kids get in trouble she speaks to them in a very hateful voice. I witnessed her hounding a little boy to fess up to something that I know he didn't do. He fessed up because she is so intimidating. I felt horrible! I wanted to say "Well, actually it wasn't him...." But I didn't want to undermine her authority. And she's scary anyway. When the kids get in trouble they have to "go to bed" which usually means getting their coat or a blanket or whatever and laying down on the floor. Sometimes they'll lay there the majority of the day. While I was in there she sent 4 to bed and the one curled up on the rug by the door. She was treating them like dogs! The rest of the class she made stand up and put their arms above their heads. They had to hold them there for another 10 minutes until she finished reaming them out.

    I mentioned this to another teacher and she said this K teacher actually sent home permission slips giving her permission to use corporal punishment when needed. Is this even legal? I have no idea what else goes on in that room.

    I will say though, in a tough school, that is one well-behaved group of kids. When they're in my room, they cry at the mention of her name if they know it means they're going back. One little boy wailed at the top of his lungs all the way down four flights of stairs. I really don't want to rock the boat this late in the game but it just disturbs me. This same teacher has given me problems before too. She's very intimidating. She's a large woman who can't get around very well and spends most of her day behind her crescent desk. She has perfected "the look" and will stare at you until you cry. Seriously.

    Any thoughts?
     
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  3. rachaelski

    rachaelski Habitué

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    Wow. I cannot believe that.
     
  4. Hoot Owl

    Hoot Owl Aficionado

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    I"d be scared of her too! Poor little kids.

    In some states it is still legal to paddle, but I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole.

    Is your principal aware of what's going on? I bet he/she is.

    If parents are aware of what she does too there's not much you can do.

    I've taught with a teacher who was really hateful with the kids too, these type of teachers damage all teacher's reputations as professionals. I have called parents of kids in her room and told them they needed to get their kid out of her class. I knew the parents well and knew they wouldn't rat on me.

    Shame on her!
     
  5. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

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    I'm sure those kids really love school, too. And none of them will look back on it with feelings of shame and resentment. None of them will figure they can model that behavior when they're in fourth or fifth or sixth grade and treat their siblings like cr**.

    </sarcasm>

    It is likely legal to send home permission slips requesting the right to use corporal punishment. However, to be effective, they would have to look legitimate -- attendance or other school privileges couldn't be based on signing the slip. Additionally, they really should delineate what sorts of corporal punishment would be used (otherwise, if anything occurred the parent could simply say they didn't mean that that sort of corporal punishment was permissible).
     
  6. holliday

    holliday Comrade

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    Ugh. I STILL cringe thinking about the time I was paddled in kindergarten for something I didn't do. Actually, it was something I did do - the teacher told us to complete a page in our workbooks that I had already done. When she came by my desk and saw me not working, she yelled at me to get started. I was a timid little girl and didn't have the courage to just tell her I had already finished. She interpreted my deer in headlights fear as refusal to obey.
    I got taken into the hall and spanked. When we came back in the classroom, my best friend told her I had already finished and showed her the page (my teacher hadn't bothered to flip through the book herself!). Anyway, she apologized to me.

    Obviously, that apology did little to erase what happened or how it made me feel. I'm 31 and still remember how humiliating it was being paddled. I don't think any teacher should be allowed to use physical punishments with students - especially little ones who can't be counted on to articulate a defense.
     
  7. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    I remember being paddled many times.........no big deal.
    You broke the rules you got a swat. Funny thing I was scared of the 3rd grade teacher and she had the smallest silliest paddle, one of those old bolo ball paddle ball paddles, All the rest had bigger ones that really stung. Bad thing was when you got home it was worse if you were really bad.
    The K teacher sounds like some evil Disney character.
     
  8. sk8enscars311

    sk8enscars311 Companion

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    YES!! Ursula from Little Mermaid!!!!!
     
  9. moonbeamsinajar

    moonbeamsinajar Habitué

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    I think she may be like the mean teacher/principal in the book, Matilda. That is so sad....I feel for those little ones who are terrified of her.
     
  10. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

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    It's good for those kids will go into the military. <sarcasm off>

    This is what we called a stress position in SERE training. It's a common tactic for interrogation of military prisoners and has been used heavily at Gitmo.


    To answer the obvious question, I'm not joking or making this up. Just google SERE, stress positions, or talk to some veterans that you know.


    Forcing people into stress positions is a really good way to force them to do whatever you want. Even forcing them to admit to things they aren't guilty of doing.......Just like you witnessed that child admit to something he didn't do, our POWs have admitted to war crimes during the Vietnam War as well as the Korean War. Extended use of stress positions was a method of choice. An adult can tolerate 10 minutes even with the belief that it will not end, but a child????
     
  11. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    If the actions that the OP is describing are accurate, then someone has dropped the ball with this teacher. If a parent committed these kinds of abuses,they would be reported to children's services. I'm pretty sure torturing is not an acceptable child rearing techniques! That teacher needs to be removed before she destroys any more children. Of course the behavior is good...they are scared to death of her.
     
  12. LynnB

    LynnB Rookie

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    My daughter had a first grade teacher like that, and my husband and I had a meeting with her and the P after she paddled my daughter. She was hateful to us and hateful about our daughter. She had paddled my daughter for disruptive behavior (she was on the floor trying to help another little girl find her lost earring--the ast forwarded this info to me). I told the woman that she needed to retire from the profession for disliking these babies so much and to join the army to become a drill sergeant! She retired that year then became a GED instructor. She does a wonderful job now I've heard.
     
  13. TeacherSandra

    TeacherSandra Enthusiast

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    I can't believe that this is legal and fine with the school administration; let alone the parents.
    Something is definitely wrong here and if I were you, I would seriously talk with someone...first of all, your principal, SOMEONE!
    For a brief moment, my mind went back to the original Sybil movie with Sally Field...remember her "mother"?? :eek:
     
  14. SwOcean Gal

    SwOcean Gal Devotee

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    OMG. That is unbelievable. How terrible to think that is happening in our schools.
     
  15. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    If my children were ever treated, by anyone, in the way described by the OP, there would be some heads rolling!
     
  16. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    I'm sorry you witnessed that. How terrible for those kids. I hope you can figure out what you can say to the principal.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  17. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Connoisseur

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    Teachers like that need to get out of the system! They give all teachers a bad name. She'd be good for military training BUT not with the little children.
    When things like this happen and PARENTS & Management KNOWINGLY let it go, they are liable for it all. Anybody with common sense should have stepped in a long time ago and stop it!
    What is wrong with some of these adults?
    :eek:
    I can't fathom what is GOING ON IN THEIR HEADS!:help:
    Rebel1
     
  18. cheeryteacher

    cheeryteacher Enthusiast

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    You aren't going to be there next year anyway, so you might as well rock the boat and have a chat with the principal. I'm sure they probably know what's going on, but if the P doesn't know maybe you will save some kids a lot of stress next year.
     
  19. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Heaven help the adult who lays a hand on any of my kids!!!
     
  20. TeacherSandra

    TeacherSandra Enthusiast

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    yep; go for it! Save those kids the mental anguish of a "teacher" like that!

    I'm really surprised someone hasn't called the authorities or newspaper! :mad:
     
  21. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    If I was a parent, I certainly wouldn't want my child in her class...not that my child would need much punishment anyway.
     
  22. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Oh, mine are normal kids. They have their share of time outs and punishments. I venture to guess that your kids will be the same.

    But let me repeat: heaven help the adult who lays a hand on them.
     
  23. TeacherSandra

    TeacherSandra Enthusiast

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    There's a big difference in the words, DISCIPLINE and CRUELTY. That teacher is not disciplining!
     
  24. CanukTeacher

    CanukTeacher Comrade

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    Where I teach this certainly wouldn't be allowed. But sending a letter home allowing for CP wouldn't be allowed either (it is illegal). If a teacher did this in my area, they wouldn't just be fired, they would lose their teaching license. Period.

    However, there seems to be a range of responses which may be regional in their nature. Maybe this type of behaviour is acceptable in some areas (legally speaking).

    I would agree that having students hold their hands up is torture. But earlier this year the US government said that waterboarding wasn't torture by the legal definition (although most other western countries would consider waterboarding torture).

    So the question would be, in the part of the world that you live, if CP is legal, would this be considered CP or is it beyond it? I'd say from a legal perspective, if waterboarding isn't torture, than this probably would be considered CP (rather than torture). And yes we are talking about K students, not suspects, however, legally speaking something either is or isn't torture. So I would assume if CP is legal the only way to prevent a teacher from doing something like this would be to prove that what they were doing was more than CP.

    Personally, I would consider this type of behaviour torture but your state might not agree.
     
  25. MrsHoot

    MrsHoot Comrade

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    I cannot believe this! PLEASE say something to administration. Kids should not have to endure a school year with that teacher. =(
     
  26. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    Did you say anything, sk8enscars?
     
  27. sk8enscars311

    sk8enscars311 Companion

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    Sorry! I didn't realize this thread was still getting responses.. kind of forgot about it. No, I have not said anything yet. I pass by the room often and more times than not it looks like a normal kindergarten room. (I know that doesn't dismiss the other stuff!)

    Both my principal and vice-principal are airheads. It does NO good to bring stuff up like this to them. We reported that a security guard is friends with the students on myspace and sells them stuff during school out of the back of his car and they don't care. We've told them there are kids selling drugs in school and they don't care. The P is young and new, the VP is old and burnt out.

    I've also been trying to prod around for more information. Like, did she really send permission slips or is that just a rumor? Also asking around about who else knows about what's going on. It's so hard to catch people these last couple of weeks.

    Unfortunately the elementary problems get overshadowed by the middle school problems and as long as the kids are in order, to each his own. (That appears to be the philosophy of this horrible place...) All the good teachers are leaving or being excessed and all the ones who don't do a thing all day are keeping their jobs. This school will be closed within 2 years.

    Sorry... off-topic. The next time I see the principal or counselor I will say something. I'm also composing a nice long letter for the chancellor (superintendent-like person) with a huge run down of why I'm leaving and what's wrong with these schools from what I've witnessed this year.

    It just occurred to me why my first grade is probably so bad. If they had Ursula last year for K...
     
  28. MathNrd

    MathNrd Rookie

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    I have no respect for any "educator" that has to use corporal punishement!
    Maybe they should get paddled for not doing their job
     
  29. cmw

    cmw Groupie

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    Definitely not OK. I would go to the P about it in my school... but your situation is different b-c your P is not supportive. (Maybe there is someone else you could go to?) Safety (mental & physical) of students should always come first.
    In my school (even though they are 4th & 5th) I am not always completely truthful with teachers that are MEAN and overly critical! I know some will "go off" on their class & I will not put them through that. Last year I had something broken & was trying to get to the bottom of it. When back in their room, the teacher reamed out the class and told them they would ALL write during their entire recess. By the end of the day there were already parent complaints. I was by the office & told the P & the parent that that was not my punishment & not how I handle things and to take it up with the teacher. I am very careful what I report to certain teachers. :)
     
  30. Teacher Chele

    Teacher Chele Habitué

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    Cruella de Ville (sp?)
    Those poor kids!!!!!!!!!!! I hope the parents stand up to her and go to the school board.
     
  31. Hoot Owl

    Hoot Owl Aficionado

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    I'd forgotten about the Sydil movie, oh my, that's just terrible.
     

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