PBIS rewards

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Backroads, Jul 19, 2016.

  1. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    I've been reading about PBIS programs for no particular reason other than curiosity and I find myself baffled at this idea of constantly and frequently giving out rewards/tickets/etc. How on earth does a teacher do this without breaking up the lesson and learning atmosphere? How does a teacher avoid the kids blatantly putting themselves in the way when rewards are being given out? (i.e., I'm going to race into line when no one is looking and then look spectacular so I can get a reward.)
     
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  3. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    I work with students where I am trying to change one behavior at a time, but they are all ED/BD. My newest best friend in this quest to improve behavior is http://www.pbisworld.com/. I think it is highly educational for teachers looking into PBIS as well as having some solid strategies to work with.
     
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  4. mathteachertobe

    mathteachertobe Cohort

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    When I give them during class, it might be for starting on the Do Now without prompting. I'll quickly walk the room placing a ticket by each student that is seated and working when the bell rings. It takes about 15 seconds.

    In my middle school, hallway behavior can be problematic, so between classes I might stand by a stairwell and give each student exiting it in the correct direction a ticket. (We have up and down stairways.) I do this very sporadically. To me, it's about acknowledging the large majority of students doing what they're supposed to be doing. By 8th grade, the tickets are not valued as currency, so kids faking good behavior to get them isn't a problem. They do seem to appreciate good behavior being recognized though, even though they don't value the actual ticket, so I do think the system helps create a more positive learning environment.
     
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  5. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    This is why I love teaching third graders because they're so moldable. Yes they are motivated by extrinsic motivation, however, you have a chance to really talk through what it means to be part of a community and society and doing things because they're the right thing to do. Because I did have some students who would do things and then ask, "Can I get... for it?" But MOST of my kids really just wanted to make me happy and themselves happy for doing a good deed or whatever. That said, I still did reward outstanding behavior too. Because at the end of the day, we -- as adults-- do get rewards. But it's also about knowing your kids (e.g. I know that "M" is doing X, while pretending not to and playing the angel. "It wasn't me!" I don't even need the other kids to try and rat her out.):roll:
     
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  6. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

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    PBIS is way more complicated than that. To be done right, it has to be school wide and the implementation process takes multiple years. For example, a lot of PBIS involves "descriptive noticing" where the teacher simply acknowledges positive examples verbally.
     
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  7. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Thanks!
     
  8. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

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    We use "paws" for our PBIS program. Each "paw" has 5 spaces and kids can turn in full ones for rewards. Most teachers have the kids keep a paw on their desk so they can quickly walk by and stamp it or initial it without being disruptive. We have set times (usually on Fridays) when kids can go to the office and collect their rewards with their paws. I've been pleasantly surprised with how motivated the kids are to earn the paws. Even my older (5th-6th grade students) were interested when I taught that age, and I work in a school with a lot of behavior problems. It also baffles me that the prizes have been the exact same for the three years I've worked in this school (same wristband, water bottle, t shirt, etc.) and kids seem just as excited to get the exact same thing they earned the previous year. We also have "group paws" that can be given to an entire class or small group for doing something well. Kids turn these into a bucket by the secretary's desk and we try to meet certain targets to earn school wide rewards like pj day, hat day, etc.
     
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  9. Obadiah

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    I'm currently on the opposite end of the fence, but with a foot on both sides. In other words, I'm kind of wishy-washy in my opinion on this. Researchers such as Carol Dweck, Susan Engel, and Alfie Kohn interpret experiments demonstrating that rewards lesson proper motivation for a behavior. On the other hand, as mentioned above and seen in my experience as a teacher, kids are capable of understanding the need for certain behaviors--I personally can see where rewards can just be icing on the cake. The kids behave because it is socially or academically necessary and the rewards can add a spark of fun to the effort and even extra motivation. PBIS methods are not new; they were around when I even started teaching. (I'm not saying this to poke fun at the method, but thought some of the younger teachers might find this interesting: back then it was nick-named "M&M Therapy", supposedly because M&M's were the immediate reward instead of stickers or check marks). Back to the point, and not to discredit the effectiveness of PBIS, I've found that an even stronger tool than rewards (and penalties) is communication. I see more achievement in behavior from listening to students and discussing situations than from any other method.
     
  10. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    None of it is new and is simply about positive reinforcement and behavior shaping I'll give you a treat to reward and encourage the behavior I want to reinforce so you'll continue to do it. This has been a long established standard in behavioral psychology for YEARS!
    And I don't think your opinion is wishy-washy, I think you see the merit in both, but see the deeper, more meaningful, imo, benefits of communication and relationships. I know that if I do a good job, I'll get paid every two weeks. It's a powerful incentive and a great motivator, but somebody (a stranger even) walking up to me and saying, "Wow! " And complimenting me or my kids is better! Some teachers go over board with the rewards because they resort to them just to survive. "If the kids calm down and shut up, I'll give them a treat," which is a horrible management system, isn't a good message for the kids and in the long run, benefits no one. PBIS is and should be widely practiced among the school WITH consistency! This is where the "Be a bucket filler" type scenarios enter, right? It's the idea that EVERYBODY understands and is on board with it. This is where my school failed. We had a school - wide system, I think, but not everybody fully understood it nor was it consistently used; that is, rewards were not consistent. And for the rewards (whatever they are) to be the MOST effective, they have to be meaningful, immediate and consistent. Then of course the problem is what rewards are meaningful for kids today? And they seem to become "bigger" and more demanding as the kids get older. Sorry, you can't get an Xbox every time you do something! Decades of research in behavioral psychology has yielded this result. We did the little tickets and SOMETIMES they would be collected and pulled, but it was random and a lot of times didn't happen at all. Even I found flaw with that. So I ended up still participating, but really emphasizing my own thing with the kids. And they DO understand. That's the beauty. Kids can understand pretty much anything if you take the time to explain it in ways that they can understand. Let's not forget that!
    :):thumbs:

    Also "real world" context:
    How often do you actually get rewarded for your positive behavior? You usually only get punished for the negative.
    Ex: If I drive the speed limit and obey the law, nobody says, "Great job! I love how you... here's a ticket to show your dedication and hard work." However, If I decide I want drive 10 -15 miles over the speed limit and perhaps, drive a little recklessly (it's OK to text while I'm driving,) guess what will happen? Oh I'll get a ticket (and maybe more) alright, but it won't be the type I jump for joy about! HAHA
    :rofl::toofunny:Sometimes you do just have to OBEY the set laws and norms of the community and just accept it. Or face the consequences. Your CHOICE! And it really is about students making choices, which I love. I love when we put responsibility and accountability on students because that's what will happen very soon in their lives.

    I "get it," (especially for those kids who always feel like crap about themselves and really need their name on the "super stars" board or whatever) but feel that a lot of what we teach the kids is very disjointed from how it is outside the walls of the classroom.
     
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  11. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

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    No PBIS in the real world? I beg to differ.
    image.jpeg
     
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  12. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

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    Also, we get discounts on our insurance for driving safely. We get to drive a nice shiny car with no dents and scratches.
    If you get good grades in college you get to go to law or medical school. The reward is a lucrative legal or medical profession.
    Be honest and faithful to your spouse, you get rewarded with a happy life.
    Raise your kids to be hard working, responsible, and respectful, and they will be there for you when you are old.
    Do I need to keep going?
     
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  13. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Some rewards are extrinsic, but the best rewards are intrinsic, they mean something to us on a personal level. With PBIS, what often starts as an extrinsic motivator can morph, over time, into "doing the right thing" because it feels better, feels right. It can become our moral compass. Many of my students who now get external rewards, are finding their way to making things like being kind to classmates, using appropriate language, and showing respect towards others additions to their core way of dealing with others and with life. No, giving one ticket for staying seated for 5 minutes, it doesn't seem to be worth the effort, but it can work. However, like so much that we do, consistency and fairness are necessary ingredients.
     
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  14. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    I never said that it DIDN'T happen, did I? I simply asked "How often?" I was just trying to emphasize the point that while extrinsic rewards can be good, over reliance on them is a huge problem too. We have way too many "takers" in this country who walk around entitled to rewards simply because. The bar for behavior and expectations gets set lower, and lower, and lower! I don't want my students just to do things simply because they know that they'll get rewarded for them. Like I said, being acknowledged for hard work is good (we do get a pay check every two weeks,) but too often you're just EXPECTED to do things because that's what you're supposed to do. A lot of workers won't get any (or very little) acknowledgment beyond the paycheck and they still do their job. But if their performance declined, they'd be put on an improvement plan and /or possibly fired.


    Another example: I worked at Target. We had to constantly pester customers about red cards. Some people wanted them, some didn't. It was an expectation of the job. If we did our job and got # customers by the end of the shift, we got a "good job," but if we DIDN'T you got all kinds of coaching, passive aggressive comments about "not working hard enough" or you could be fired. But if I got, say, 100 cards I wouldn't walk up to my manager and say, "What am I going to get for this?" The alternative for NOT doing it is you get hit with "consequences," how meaningful they are is debatable.

    If you're walking on the sidewalk (or around town) and you see garbage on the street, do you pick it up and put it in a bin or leave it? Do you throw garbage in the trash or litter? If you do the right thing, nobody (usually) will be there to pat you on the back and say, "Good job," but if you're found littering by a cop you could be punished for it.

    My main point is simply: it's important to do what's right and expected regardless of the outward rewards. Rewards can be a great motivator, especially for certain students, but I don't want to create another entitled generation that expects the world for doing nothing. And I saw it in my own room. A student would do something (that I wouldn't even see) come to and say, "I did X, can get Y?" And then some kids would just do X because they wanted to help keep the classroom clean and organized and show respect. So those kids when I selected to be my students of the months, I would emphasize that point because they had never once asked me for anything.


    Also, we get discounts on our insurance for driving safely. We get to drive a nice shiny car with no dents and scratches. But if you don't drive safely, you can lose your license and/or end up with no car at all. And depending on the situation: land in jail! The expectation is that you OBEY the law when you drive.

    If you get good grades in college you get to go to law or medical school. The reward is a lucrative legal or medical profession. But if you don't, you won't. And could end up getting kicked out entirely.

    Be honest and faithful to your spouse, you get rewarded with a happy life. If you don't, it won't and you could end up fighting and in divorce.
    Raise your kids to be hard working, responsible, and respectful, and they will be there for you when you are old. Possibly. Hopefully.

    And even in your military example (the picture): what happens to me if I just show up and am really lazy? What if my commander??? (I know nothing about ranks ) tells me to do X,Y,Z and I do a really poor job or simply say, "Nah, I don't want to." o_O What if I don't even show up to wherever it is I'm supposed to be at a certain time? Or at all? Will I still get rewarded or face some punishment that's not too favorable to me?

    Again following expectations, knowing that I'm doing what's required and NOT getting punished are rewards themselves. I shouldn't run around worrying about "what I'll get." That's simply the message I try to instill in the kids.

    If I go to a store and BUY the products I want, what happens? Not much. Nobody applauds me for just doing what's expected. They don't stand there and hand me a SUPER JOB sticker for purchasing my groceries. But what if I just steal the products? I want them, but I don't want to pay for them? Then what happens? Hmmm...



    Do I need to keep going?

    :):peacesign:
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
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  15. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

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    I like the speeding analogy...A lot of people who did similar things sat in front of me in a place that wasn't quite as warm and nice as a classroom. :)
     
  16. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    I just keep thinking about some of my kids in the real world examples.

    If I show up for work on time or early (like I do), do I get anything for it? No. The reward is that I have time to get stuff done. But if I constantly show up late (or not at all), then what happens? :confused:

    I guess my question would be: How often is a "trophy" given out to everyone for everything? Because when people (teachers) overly rely on a rewards system, this is what happens. And then when students go from teacher A, who is a cakewalk and throws around toys and stickers and prizes like it's going out of style to teacher B, who doesn't, the kids get all confused. "But last year, my teacher..." :(

    Ugh!

    And by the way, I do have these kinds of convos with my kids (8-9 years old) about classroom expectations and rewards. What should we be doing and why? And I love how they make everything simple to understand. They don't overly complicate anything.

    Rewards are GOOD and necessary sometimes. But some teachers just rely on them too much. If you give them out to control or shut the kids up. It's a problem. I interviewed at a Charter School where they didn't believe or use rewards AT ALL... you couldn't even put a sticker on the kids' paper if he did a good job. The P told me that a lot of the teachers, especially the seasoned, struggled with that. Now would I go to that extreme? Absolutely not! But I'm not throwing you a party either for picking up a pencil and putting your name on the paper. Sorry!

    And we talk about kids "not being college and career ready," part of the problem isn't even academics. It's that these kids come in with no sense of urgency, importance, responsibility or maturity. I knew so many people who FLAMED out freshmen year because of all of the above. And then people like me attended classes, did what we needed to do, because we loved learning and were interested, and yes -- made Dean's and President's List and graduated with honors, but that didn't drive me to do anything. I was just happy to have a shot at going to college. I never thought I would have been able to.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  17. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    I think that is considered learning about the real world, don't you? No two of anything is the same, and we kind of learn that differing experiences.
     
  18. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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  19. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

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    First of all, PBIS does not totally rule out consequences as a result of negative behavior. Rather, it's a system where rewards and consequences are given in ways that are appropriate in terms of the situation and the student's development. For example, nowhere does PBIS mandate that you deal with bullying by giving a kid a prize because he went a recess without punching anyone. However, if the PBIS team decides that is the best way to deal with bullying behavior by a particular student, then they might choose that. On the other hand, the team may decide that the bully needs to spend some time after school writing apology letters to fellow students. Whatever the case, it's based on the individual situation rather than a one-size-fits-all approach.

    As for consistency between teachers, as I said, PBIS is something that is done school or district wide. One teacher cannot really say "I'm going to start using PBIS this year" and expect it to work. The reason is that there is a link between inside the classroom and outside the classroom behavior. The kid who gets in fights in the hallway probably causes trouble in the classroom as well, and visa versa. So if the lunch recess is like a scene from Lord of the Flies, then classroom behavior probably needs work as well.

    Or, in the word of my very articulate 8th grade TA last year, "When all you do is punish kids all the time it makes them angry and pissed off and when you are angry and pissed off, it's hard to learn what the teachers are teaching."
     
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  20. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    Absolutely! I agree 100%! :thumbs: When the teachers know what's up, because it's emphasized, they're properly educated and trained, and it's used effectively across campus, it can be awesome! However, my school didn't. It was very disjointed and ineffective. And a lot of teachers just kind of "interpreted" and did their own thing with it. Which leads to problems... Like I said. I definitely have a biased view because I've seen it horribly implemented, managed and abused. That's all.

    :(
     
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  21. Peachy Teach

    Peachy Teach Guest

    Jul 21, 2016

    I have taught at a school that did PBIS, and while it was mandatory to implement, new hires (like myself) did not receive the training. With over a thousand students and a fairly high staff turnover, most of us were at a loss for how to implement the program properly.

    I am at a different school now, and the school was facing a similar problem- vast numbers of new hires who were not trained on the "school wide" behavior system. The result? A big mess.

    This year, we were planning to use PBIS but have now decided on using the Responsive Classroom method so that we can keep away from extrinsic rewards. I have not personally taught at a school that used Responsive Classroom, but I am hearing good things? Hoping for the best!
     
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  22. FourSquare

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    PBIS needs to be school-wide for it to really work. You're not supposed to be rewarding random expected behaviors. The rewards are for targeted issues across the school decided upon by your PBIS/behavior health committee/leadership team/whomever. For example, my campus had a huge issue with uniform, so we started just rewarding the kids who dressed appropriately. There was a big turn around.

    Also, there's supposed to be a system of individual, class, and whole school rewards. Willy Wildass might miss out on all the individual stuff, but he should NOT be left out of class or whole school rewards. That way everyone has a chance to feel success.

    Are we rewarding for some things that kids should just do? Probably. But honestly, they're kids. I think some people forget sometimes that the kids are not yet grown up and in the real world. Let them be kids. Kids like positive and negative consequences because they indicate structure.

    My school piloted this digital program to help with logistics:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    All the kids got picture IDs with a little QR code. We could use our phones to scan IDs and give individual points. Alternatively, you could see the whole class on your computer and give individual or group points that way. (A little bit like Class Dojo.) It was very quick and easy to use. The points were tracked electronically and then kids shopped in our school store for little things like school supplies. We were able to scan items and it deducted points from a kid's bank automatically.
     
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  23. Obadiah

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    A question came to my mind; (not an argument, just another thought to discuss). If a misbehavior is targeted to reward for proper behavior, isn't that kind of like rewarding the misbehavior that shouldn't have happened in the first place? On the other hand, the team doesn't know which behavior to reward until the misbehavior happens.
     
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  24. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Obadiah, that question is just moving your starting point and changing the reason for rewards. Most rewards programs do start because there is a problem in the first place so the question doesn't seem to be one that can easily be discussed. Now, the problem isn't always misbehavior, sometimes the problem is something that people don't know about. I see store rewards as being one of those problems. People don't see the need, but in the eyes of the store people are misbehaving by not buying as much of something they want the customer to purchase or not buying enough in general. It is still starting with a problem. Stores don't give you things so they loose money.

    Same thing with school rewards. There is always a problem. Apart from common courtesy and respect towards students, which I believe is also a form of rewards that is ingrained in our society, all rewards programs exist due to perceived problems.
     
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  25. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I can see this comparison with objective rules in school (and even with speeding sometimes people get out of the ticket for a very good reason like woman is about to deliver), but many of the rules kids get in trouble for in school are subjective. Did you ever see a kid power-walk down the halls to avoid the no running in the halls? The child may be quiet doing so and is walking (technically) but may still get in trouble because they were moving that way to avoid running so they will be dinged on running in the halls. Some teachers are very picky on how students say things. They will find disrespect in so much.

    Also, many of the rules that students are subjected to in school is to TEACH a behavior. Part of teaching is encouraging. I really think many schools talk out of both sides of their mouths. They say they are teaching students these societal behaviors but act as if they expected all students should know and be able to apply them all from the start and punish after the expectations are stated (taught in their eyes).
     
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  26. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Great point.
    Sometimes teachers need to address the idea of how behaving in a certain manner makes you feel. Some students don't see the correlation. Making them aware of this can speed the process.

    I also agree that habit will remove the awkwardness of some non-ingrained behaviors.

    Feel right can be for both good and bad behaviors.
     
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  27. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Sometimes. In some jobs you will be rewarded with bonuses (assuming you do a good job), recognition from the boss, promotion, or not being laid off when lay-offs come around. In some jobs it doesn't matter. In some businesses the boss sucks so it doesn't matter.

    I would say, you get some peace and quiet to get your work home and have more time in the evening. Your choice is for your benefit otherwise, why would you do it. You must get something out of it.
     
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  28. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Gotta love that push for autonomy! Please know I am not generalizing to everything a teacher does, but sometimes the idea for autonomy and the encouragement or attitude to "close the door and do what you want" does a huge disservice to a school.
     
  29. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    Jul 22, 2016

    As sad as it is, some behaviors SHOULD be known already coming into the classroom, however, and here's the sad part (that says a lot about our society), many aren't. You would think students come into the classroom knowing when someone speaks, you listen, especially if it's an authority figure. And you shouldn't say, "No! I don't want to do that" when an adult makes a request of you. However, these kids come in from screwy homes with screwy (if any) morals and values. This is the challenge of teaching because students don't necessarily share the same values and points of view as we do. Some students are taught to handle conflicts with violence and that's what they do. "If he bothers you, hit 'em!" I legit had one of my third grade girls tell me her dad told her that because a boy had been bothering her and she hit him and got in school suspension for it. She KNEW it wasn't the right thing to do, but did it anyway. And it's pretty hard to explain why that's wrong if the parents egg them on. It's like we try to teach them what SHOULD happen only for those messages to be undone when they go home. There's just basic common sense and social norms for behavior that students SHOULD enter the building with. But many don't. And that's when we, the teachers (along with everything else we do) are expected to shape them up. I tell them, this is how you are expected to behave while you're HERE! I don't care about what's going on out there. In HERE, we say/ do ________. I had a student who would just spew up, randomly, very rude remarks. And when you stop and address it, he sincerely doesn't even know a) what he's saying is wrong and b) it's rude to just interrupt and blurt out with those comments.
    It baffles us as teachers because we KNOW the social norms and expectations of behavior. We just have to remember: the kids don't. They don't come from the same background or have the same experiences as we do. I have a background in Psychology (which helps immensely) so I try to analyze and never assume anything. I actually created a meme I shared with my friends of one of those fancy dinners with all the silverware and asked, "Would you know what to do?" If you don't know what's expected of you, how can you get in trouble? I attended a dining skills seminar before where they taught us how to sit, which utensils were used for what, topics of convo, etc., but before that I had lived all my life in a trailer park. We ate with one fork, spoon and knife. If I hadn't attended that seminar, I would have been considered "rude" and breaking the rules. This is what the kids do because they don't know any different.
    Again, this shows you the sad state of affairs.

    :):peacesign:
     
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  30. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    That was perhaps my problem. They didn't train us or educate us AT ALL about what was expected. Really in anything. I worked in a "thinking map" school, but didn't know what the hell half of them were supposed to be used for so I didn't use them. You would think if that's their "thing," they would make sure ALL staff are comfortable with them. My theory: where I taught was like McDonalds, there was so much turn over that they just stopped trying.
    :(
     
  31. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Parts of this remind me of a study course I took recently. Specifically, the difference between "Students learn when they can" versus "Students learn when they want to." The differences between those two mindsets are huge, but the ramifications in how we treat students who have deficits in the areas that control how they act is even larger. If you haven't actually watched the post with the Youtube video above, now would be a great time to do so.
     
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  32. miss-m

    miss-m Groupie

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    I'll need to remember this phrasing, it's a good way to distinguish between what parents say and school expectations without diminishing the importance of listening to your parents (whether or not they're worth listening to is a different issue, but still.) And let's be real, different situations and contexts often require different behaviors, so better to teach that in school.
     
  33. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    And this is the problem especially when you teach them something that directly contradicts the learned values /behaviors at home.

    I look at SMOKING as an example. What do we teach them about it "in school?" And then of course what's the obvious reaction from some students (myself included): "But my ____ smokes." So how do you deal with that?

    o_O
     
  34. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Well, if you were a parent, the old stand-by is "If everyone else jumped off a cliff, does that mean you should too?" :roll:
     
  35. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    I know and if only it were that simple, but on a deeper level, it really can confuse and conflict the kid. If all my teachers tell me here are all the dangers and reasons why you shouldn't do X and my own father does X, what and who do I believe? For some of these kids, who are already unsure, it can cause a serious identity crisis!
    :(
    This is why I try SO HARD at the beginning of the year to set that tone and classroom culture. So that I can have these convos with my kids about HERE vs. THERE. They seem to understand because we do have a lot of discussions which, in my opinion, is authentic teaching. And it's so hard to not "brainwash" with your own beliefs as a teacher, because at the end of the day, they still go home to whatever and you can't change that, so we're in a difficult position everyday. But then at the same time we're supposed to teach these norms for behavior like tolerance and acceptance for others? Well what if the kids go home and they hear X,Y,Z epithet from mommy and daddy? I struggle for sure.
     
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  36. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    In some neighborhoods and in some families, that is the only thing that will stop someone from bothering you. Physical power and assertiveness, while not the type we like in the utopian society, is really a method that will often work in the real world. I've seen all too many kids put up with bullying for years until they stood up for themselves in a physical manner because words mean nothing to most who are exerting their power over you.

    I don't mean that I condone physical violence. I don't. But the reality is, in social interaction, that is sometimes the only thing that will solve a problem when the surrounding society is being ineffective in managing the problem.
     
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  37. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    Oh I know. You needn't tell me. But a lot of teachers don't understand that. For some kids (a few of my students), they're just trying to survive and will do whatever's necessary to. This, often times, includes demonstrating behaviors we deem as "bad" or "odd."

    Which again: is why I stress HERE vs. THERE.
    :)

    Story: I taught in AZ so my kids were black and Hispanic. I play music in the background while the kids work and it was KidsBop radio where they sing kid friendly EDITED versions of songs. Well a song came on and the kids debated what the ACTUAL lyrics are. And little "J" (one of those really smart kids who tests the system), out loud, and ashamed said, "It actually says nig***!" And I kind of turned as if maybe I had misheard, and he said, AGAIN -- even louder, "Nig***!" I just looked around, like OMG, and calmly asked him to step outside into the hallway where we had a talk. He really had NO clue that you couldn't say that. He would also spout out a bunch of Radical Republican anti-Muslim stuff from time to time because, you guessed it: that's mommy & daddy.
    But yeah, you would think the kids know NOT to say stuff like that. But he really was oblivious.
    :helpme:
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
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  38. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    But the sad part is, sometimes schools are just as negligent as the home environment when it comes to creating a truly safe environment for kids. So, in that case HERE vs. THERE doesn't really apply. A school that allows a bully to continue bullying because they are being ineffective and won't take more robust measures to stop it is no different.

    Now, I can see HERE vs. THERE being used if it is a first time issue or not a habitual bullying issue, but if the school hasn't been successful in stopping the bully from bullying kids (whether it be this one child or multiple children), there really is no HERE vs. THERE. I also mean if the girl continually witnesses this child bully others and this happens to be the first time he targeted her. Even in that situation THERE is HERE.
     
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  39. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    That's absolutely true too! You mean that we can't just put up a "NO BULLY" poster or wear the little bracelets and the problem won't be solved ? LOL Some people are delusional.
    I got into it one time at a professional development (DASA) workshop. I speak the truth and that really "offends" people. DASA exists BECAUSE of the bullying problem in New York's schools. I simply said, "Well a lot of times we KNOW where the bullying hot spots are and should make sure that we're there monitoring them." I then explained how for boys (LGBT or not), in middle/hs, the LOCKER ROOM & GYM are like BULLY central zones. And I said -- from my perspective-- the PE teacher needs to do more to make sure that he's there. In my case, the PE teacher was part of the problem too because not only didn't he stop it, but he laughed along with the gay jokes I got in school. It was horrible. And I'm sorry but sometimes the teacher is the problem too.

    Well one lady in the room was LIVID. "Well I'm offended by that because my boyfriend is a PE teacher" blah blah blah. Wonderful! And your point? It happens. I'm sure your BF is fantastic, but this is reality. It happens. And we definitely need to do more to help. And if nothing else, don't, as a teacher, BE part of the problem!

    :mad: :banghead::down:

    All that "he's just playing," or "they're just jokes," or "kids being kids," or "they need to learn to stand up for themselves" BS we hear is part of the problem!

    If you were a bully a student, you probably (unconsciously or not) carry that with you as a teacher. I've seen it and experienced it first hand! It's horrible!
     
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  40. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    I was actually just recently reading about a psychologist's case for hitting back... and I happen to agree.
     
  41. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Those of you in a PBIS system, it sounds like rewarding is built more or less into the schedule. Is that right?
     

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