Overdiscipline?

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Pi-R-Squared, Oct 12, 2014.

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  1. HistoryVA

    HistoryVA Devotee

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    I think that point is actually one we agree on. I would never write someone up for a paper airplane, first of all. Secondly, if a teacher takes care to administer all discipline in PRIVATE, then decisions such as different consequences, letting things go based on personal circumstances can be made much more easily. The biggest issue here was the public punishment (which was public if the girl was able to intercede) and perhaps over-zealousness on a minor offense to begin with. I remain with the opinion that once he did publicly state the consequence for the action that he had to follow through with the same for the girl or risk more drama.
     
  2. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Yeah, this is all fair. I agree. That's why I handle all my discipline business in private and why I recommend that others do the same.
     
  3. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Groupie

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    My policy is first time gets warning, second time is warning + behavior slip, third is warning + behavior slip + parent contact, fourth time is office referral. My policy is also subject to change depending on the circumstance. The paper airplane incident, although minor in some eyes, could get out of hand, just like rubber band shooting can. Therefore, it got bumped up to warning + slip just to make the point. My worry was how she reacted, the day after how she was still sad, and how she may act tomorrow. I wasn't asking for a debate on fair vs. equal. I was just wondering how I should handle it IF she appears sad and defeated tomorrow.
     
  4. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    :hijack::hijack::hijack:

    Sorry about this, Pi.
     
  5. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    If she's still sad and won't respond to you, I'd seek out the guidance counselor. Something deeper may be going on.
     
  6. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Groupie

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    Here is exactly what happened.

    1. Bell rings. End of class. A behavior slip is sitting on my desk. Girl walks up and says she threw the paper airplane.

    2. I inform the boy who was initially asked to come forward to go to his next class. He never came to my desk because the girl quickly admitted guilt.

    3. I show her the behavior slip and the rest is history.
     
  7. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Groupie

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    Well, on her way to 2nd period, she passes my room. Before the incident, she would have been cheery and all smiles and said hello. Today, she avoided my door and walked around other kids. So, I guess I "broke" her somehow. :(
     
  8. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    I haven't read all of the thread, but to respond to your original question, don't worry that you have somehow "broken" her. Sure, she may not like you right now. She'll get over it. Some kids are more sensitive than others when it comes to discipline (I was one), but doing what you say you will makes a predictable environment that should lead more to reflecting on her own choices than being mad at you for getting caught.
     
  9. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    I've followed this thread but haven't added anything until now.

    I wonder if the girl learned that admitting guilt gains you nothing. There was no benefit for doing the right thing after she did the wrong thing.

    I expect she will share her experience with others because that's what people do. I also wonder how many kids will step up to the plate next time someone else is accused of something that he or she doesn't do and is given a behavior referral.

    She may have done it because she felt it was the right thing to do, but typically in that situation, those that admit will get a bit of a reprieve because they did the right and proper thing. Not in this case.
     
  10. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Groupie

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    This is why I have been considering retracting the behavior slip but doing this privately. Kinda saving face but would that make me look weak to her?
     
  11. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    She is mad at you and pouting so you will take away the punishment.
     
  12. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Groupie

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    I see what you mean.... Besides, she was much more receptive today in class. She's slowly coming around so I think I didn't break her. That was my biggest concern.
     
  13. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    I've read through this thread and though it did get a bit derailed, I think there was good advice in there. I agree that 'wiping away tears' is a bit overstepping the bounds as a teacher. Handing a student a tissue or even holding her books while she got the tissue would have been a more appropriate response. If that were my daughter, I would be a little more than upset. Second, discipline of any student I think needs to be held in private, especially at the secondary level. You save embarrassment for those 'model students' and lessen the clown act of the frequent flyers.

    I'm glad that she was more receptive today.
     
  14. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    I don't know exactly what the behavior slip entails, but if retracting it is something that would theoretically be meaningful, you could pull her aside, tell her you've thought it through, and you will retract it on Friday after class if you don't have any more issues. That way, you can back-track a bit from a punishment which may have been a bit much, but you still make her earn it a little bit... it doesn't look like her crying is making you retract it, it's her positive behavior that would retract it.
     
  15. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    That's a really good suggestion, gr3teacher.
     
  16. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

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    This thread has taken many different directions...

    All I will say is:

    1) I would have asked the first student what happened before deciding to punish him. His name on the paper does not mean for sure that he is guilty - as you soon found out.

    2) I would not wipe a student's eyes and I'm a woman. Since you're a male, I would be very careful as this can easily be misinterpreted. My daughter is in middle school and if she came home and told me that a male teacher wiped her eyes or hugged her or anything like that, my reaction would not be good!

    3. I have a sign in my room that says that "Fair isn't everyone getting the same thing. Fair is everyone getting what they need." I do believe in some leniency if it's a first offense. I would make it absolutely clear to the student's that this is the reason you're refraining from punishment, though, if you have this policy.

    4. I absolutely give leniency for honesty. I even thank them for being honest. To not do so, discourages honesty in the future. On the other hand, though, the student can't consistently misbehave and then get off when s/he admits it. In this case I would have said something like "I appreciate your honesty, especially since you did it to spare another student getting in trouble. Since you were honest and it's your first offense, I'm going to let it go. However, this cannot happen again in my classroom."

    Good luck! :)
     
  17. Shanoo

    Shanoo Habitué

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    I think you're really too worried about her reaction to you.

    She is experiencing a consequence to an action she undertook. Whether the consequence was too harsh is another debate but if she's broken because of it, SHE broke herself. You did nothing but hand out the consequence that I assume she knew would be coming if she broke a rule.

    As long as the consequence was given calmly and professionally, I wouldn't worry about it. If you feel it was too harsh, maybe it's time to re-evaluate your behaviour plan. Too harsh as a first offence just because she's typically a good student probably means too harsh as a first offence for everyone.
     
  18. 2ndTimeAround

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    Glad that she's coming around. I don't think you did anything terrible and the implication that you might have ruined this child from ever doing good again in her life is ridiculous.

    Also, I don't think that all punishments needed to be handled privately. If a student misbehaves publically, then she should be able to handle getting called out publically.
     
  19. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Groupie

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    Should I speak with my AP about this? Not the discipline part but the tear-wiping part just so she knows what I did?
     
  20. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    No.
     
  21. AdamnJakesMommy

    AdamnJakesMommy Habitué

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    I'm a female teacher in my twenties, and on two occasions two of my 7th grade girls had broken down in tears in the hallway, and both times I gave them a side hug. I hadn't thought anything of it at the time, but now this thread is making me paranoid!!?? What do you all think of those kind of situations???

    Had it been boys I would've patted them on the back or something.

    I taught 4th grade last year, where those kids hugged all over us teachers, held our hands...heck if they could, they would've gone home with us!! They were a lovin' bunch, that's for sure!! When they cried, they came in for hugs. So anyways, that's what I'm used to. The parents in the school complained IF YOU DID NOT HUG THEIR CHILD, yes, I'm serious.
     
  22. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    I think "fire me."

    Seriously, if being caring costs me my job... well I can't think of a better way to go.
     
  23. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Oct 13, 2014

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Groupie

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  25. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Good. Glad it was taken with humor, but GOD, let it go beyond the consideration of watching her behavior for this week and then tearing up the office note.
     
  26. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Groupie

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    Specifically, the slip was not an office referral. Just a behavior slip to mark what she did. I wasn't going to send her to the office for an airplane.
     
  27. HistoryVA

    HistoryVA Devotee

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    So... really there was no consequence other than her action written on a piece of paper? She seriously over-reacted, then.
     
  28. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Groupie

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    Yes, this was NOT an office referral. Just a note saying what she did, the date, and time. Her name also went into my "behavior log" book. That's it.
     
  29. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    What do you do with this information on the slip. At what point do you use it for anything?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
  30. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Groupie

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    If misbehavior continues and other avenues are taken (move seats, call parents, etc....) that do not solve the issue, I will attach any behavior slips to an office referral.
     
  31. Proud2BATeacher

    Proud2BATeacher Phenom

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    I think that you just have to use common sense. There is a male behaviour assistant at our school. All of the female teachers have their radars on when he is interacting with the younger students. He is around 6'4", so when the students hug him, guess where their faces are?! Right at his crotch.:eek:hmy: He say's that he doesn't want to hurt their feelings by pushing them away, but come on! The principal has been informed and the hugs have stopped. :whistle: Unfortunately for him, now teachers are shooing their students away from him.
     
  32. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

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    WOW :shock:
     
  33. greendream

    greendream Cohort

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    You think female teachers need to monitor the behavior of male colleagues around children? This idea that all men are potential rapists and pedophiles enrages me. :mad:
     
  34. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    If a male has exhibited behaviors that are suspicious, and the administration doesn't do anything about it, what choice do they have?

    The idea that anyone would endanger the well being of a child enrages me. :mad:
     
  35. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    greendream, I think what Proud is saying is that THIS PARTICULAR male teacher has the other teachers' radar up.
     
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