Outside the classroom

Discussion in 'General Education' started by 3Sons, Apr 29, 2011.

  1. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

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    Apr 29, 2011

    Teachers should have their own lives... even if they are English teachers who write books in their spare time.

    http://www.wnep.com/wnep-sny-parent...r-writes-racy-novels-20110426,0,4057307.story

    Fortunately, many are willing to support them...

    http://www.wnep.com/wnep-snyder-teacher-racy-novels-supporters-judy-buranich,0,6923268.story

    There's a Facebook page to express support. The administration seems to be hedging their bets at the moment, equivocating about what to do -- widespread support may convince them to keep this 25-year veteran teacher.
     
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  3. moonbeamsinajar

    moonbeamsinajar Habitué

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    Apr 29, 2011

    This is happening in the county next to mine. It's a very rural area which is strongly conservative. I am not surprised that they have made this an issue, but am wondering why it has taken so long for someone to complain. It seemed to be common knowledge that the teacher was writing "racy" novels. As if we don't have enough to worry about in PA with the huge budget cuts to local districts and the ramifications ....
     
  4. holliday

    holliday Comrade

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    Unbelievable. You mean to tell me there's a writing teacher who writes??? What next, math teachers who balance their own checkbooks??:eek:hmy:
     
  5. Kat53

    Kat53 Devotee

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    Apr 29, 2011

    This is ridiculous. It does remind me of the movie "10 Things I Hate about You" where the principal was writing racy novels at school. (which is not what this teacher was doing!!)
     
  6. hernandoreading

    hernandoreading Comrade

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    Apr 30, 2011

    Wow! This is the kind of thing that causes many teachers who are perfectly good people to live in a cloud of fear because they happen to be gay, or practice a different religion, or have an unconventional (but perfectly legal) interest or hobby.
     
  7. Jem

    Jem Aficionado

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    Apr 30, 2011

    Would students and parents be shocked to know that teachers have intimate relations with their significant others as well? How DARE they think about those actions when they teach? And even bolder, put these thoughts into a story line that makes them money?

    From the article: Parent Deanna Stepp said the evidence is clear. "She is teaching children that are under the age of 18 and definitely the books that she is writing are adult books. I think she needs to make a decision as to what she wants to do. Either be a school teacher or author," Stepp said.

    Changing the wording: 'She is teaching children that are under the age of 18 and definitely the actions that she partakes in during the evening with her husband are adult actions. I think she needs to make a decision as to what she wants to do. Either be a school teacher or have intimate relations.'

    Just as ridiculous.
     
  8. ally06

    ally06 Companion

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    May 1, 2011

    :yeahthat:
    Absolutely ridiculous that this became an issue at all.
     
  9. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    May 1, 2011

    No more ridiculous than teachers being fired because they used to make adult videos. Even though that is not a part of their life anymore, most of the sentiment on here was very much against them being allowed to continue teaching impressionable kids that might be able to see their past videos, even though the women had turned their lives around and were not working in the adult industry anymore.

    On the flip side, I can't help wonder how many of the complaining mothers have read plenty of novels just like the one "Judy Mays" writes.
     
  10. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    May 1, 2011

    As described on her website's header, she writes erotic, not just romance, novels. Reading some excerpts, her writing is certainly pornographic. Even the covers are "racy" with nude women crossing their legs just enough to conceal what must be concealed with hair that covers just the nipples (although they are illustrated) or the entire backside of nude male.

    Is this just another example of how teachers are controlled by the communities in which they live? Another example of unfair standards? Perhaps. But I do understand why some parents would be shocked by this.
     
  11. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Whether you want to call it "romance" or "erotica" or "pornography", it's all the same thing--literature written by a grown-up for other grown-ups about grown-up stuff. It's an extremely popular category in bookstores and libraries. A whole slew of the most downloaded nookbooks are in this category, which means that tons of people are downloading them, presumably to read them....

    I don't really think that parents have any right to be shocked by this. What does it matter to them what this teacher does in her free time? Are we as teachers really expected to divulge everything we do and think and have done and have thought? That's some dangerous ground, if you ask me. I've done and continue to do plenty of adult things in my adult life, and I'm not going to apologize for that.

    Are all these parents willing to divulge everything that they do and think and have done and have thought? I mean, by their own logic, if they are out doing adult things, that would obviously bring into question their ability to parent and their parenting skills. As their children's teacher, I think I have the right to know if they are doing adult things because what happens in their private lives and in their bedrooms is obviously my business. Just for good measure, I think I'm going to ask them to fill that information out on my student info sheets. I'll probably have to add another page to that sheet. "Parent's cell phone number, parent's email, parent's sexual history, parent's sexual fantasies..." Sounds about right.
     
  12. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    May 1, 2011

    Parents, and anyone for that matter, are free to feel what they feel. I'm not suggesting it's necessarily correct, logical, or fair, but they're entitled to their opinions.
     
  13. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    May 1, 2011

    Of course they're entitled to their opinions. Perhaps I should have worded it that I don't think that parents have any right to call for her removal or ask her to choose between writing and teaching.
     
  14. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

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    May 1, 2011

    I think instead of an uproar over this, the school and parents should be quite pleased with their English teacher's accomplishments. She's teaching about writing, and she continues to write. How fantastic is that? This whole thing is so silly.
     
  15. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    The same arguments apply to adult films; it's filmed by grown-ups for other grown-ups showing grown-up stuff. Adult films is one of the most popular categories of films and is a huge business and a whole slew of downloaded movies and videos are in this category.

    I'm just saying, if you make the argument this is "Ok", then the same argument can be used to say appearing in adult films (or working as an exotic dancer after hours) is "Ok".

    The same is true for the arguments that were used to justify NOT allowing the two teachers discussed here before that had done adult films in the past. "Their kids could find a copy of their old films or videos and then what would they think about their teacher? How could they ever take her seriously or how could she ever be effective in the classroom again? What if they went on a field trip overnight?"

    The same is true for the erotic novels. I'm assuming the kids could actually get copies of these books a LOT easier than they can adult films. Once they read the racy passages written by their teacher, how can take her seriously in class or how can she be effective? What if she takes them on an overnight field trip? Will the students ask her to 'tell them some stories' or will the teacher find some form of inspiration for her next novel on the trip?"

    Personally, I agree that, for the most part, our lives outside the classroom should stay there. But we all chose a profession we in which we KNOW we are going to be held to a higher standard. That's just part of the job.
     
  16. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    May 1, 2011

    I believe I have made the argument here that it is okay for teachers to have appeared in adult films or worked as an exotic dancer, so I agree with that.

    It's that "higher standard" stuff that sort of bothers me. Why does sex have to be a "lower standard"? We are hardwired for sex. It's fun and it feels good. Why do we look down on people who find a way to cash in on that? I think it's unfair. I think it's sort of like criticizing someone for breathing--we're hardwired for that, too. It's part of our most basic and primitive biology.
     
  17. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    May 1, 2011

    My apologies....my comments aren't directed specifically at you, Caesar....you just happened to be the one that voiced the arguments and I meant the "you" as a more generic term.

    When we discussed the two teacher that had appeared in adult films in the past, the general sentiment here was very firmly against the them keeping their jobs. Now the sentiment is very firmly for this teacher keeping hers.

    Frankly, I don't see much difference between the two. If a person argues that what teachers do outside the school should remain outside of school, then that should apply to adult films and exotic dancing as well as writing erotic novels. If one is acceptable, the others are too. If one is not, then the others are not.
     
  18. holliday

    holliday Comrade

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    May 1, 2011

    "Are all these parents willing to divulge everything that they do and think and have done and have thought? I mean, by their own logic, if they are out doing adult things, that would obviously bring into question their ability to parent and their parenting skills. As their children's teacher, I think I have the right to know if they are doing adult things because what happens in their private lives and in their bedrooms is obviously my business. Just for good measure, I think I'm going to ask them to fill that information out on my student info sheets. I'll probably have to add another page to that sheet. "Parent's cell phone number, parent's email, parent's sexual history, parent's sexual fantasies..." Sounds about right."

    Caesar, you crack me UP! I had been thinking the same thing...if our private lives are so important, then the private lives of those who actually spend theirs with our students (meaning, the parents) should be even MORE up for scrutiny. Somehow I doubt my P would appreciate that extra page on the parent letter, though...:lol:
     
  19. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

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    May 2, 2011

    Essentially, I agree with both you and Caesar. However, I won't say I don't see any justification for anyone to see a difference. Adult films are a bit of a strange area -- if you believe that adult films should be legal, why not prostitution? The only differences are in who pays and the camera (one could even argue that as a private activity, prostitution is less immoral than making adult films). Many people might feel that writing erotic novels is a moral activity -- just amounting to verbal expression -- while making adult films is immoral.

    This is part of the reason that poorly-defined moral turpitude clauses in contracts bother me.
     
  20. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    May 2, 2011

    These were written under a pen name and hopefully without a picture of the author in the books. I would hope the English teacher wouldn't divulge to the students that she wrote them.

    I see a difference between movies, photography, dancing in public places being the PEN NAME and lack of visual reference. Unless someone divulges the connection, there should be no easy way to make the connection between the author under a pen name and the English teacher unlike looking at the body of the teacher that has job on the side that is visual in nature.

    So, I may not agree with the type of books this teacher writes, she has every right to do so.
     
  21. ally06

    ally06 Companion

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    May 2, 2011

    While I think there is a difference between the two, I do also have a problem with a teacher being fired because they used to make adult videos.
     
  22. MathEducator

    MathEducator Rookie

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    May 4, 2011

    Although I do agree with you to an extent. I can see how others would feel these two things are different. In one case you have a teacher who is a writer, who does not run the risk of students physically seeing them do anything private. While on the other hand, you have the potential for the students to physically see his/her teacher in a very private situation. Black and white text on a page is different than a naked/half naked body dancing or partaking in very intimate affairs.
     
  23. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    May 4, 2011

    I wonder how she answers the "are you published" question on many applications?
     

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