Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Rennie15, Mar 29, 2012.

  1. Rennie15

    Rennie15 Rookie

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    Hellppppp! I'm a student teacher right now and I'm in a grade 6 class at the moment. I have a student who has Oppositional Defiant Disorder, this child is an absolute danger to not only teachers but students as well. I have asked my mentor teacher how to deal with this child and she has been teaching him the entire year and even she doesn't know what to do with him. He punches other kids anf teachers, doesn't not listen to anything you tell him, throws huge fits when you try and encourage him to do work during class, and I'm talking throwing solid pencial cases and text books at other kids heads. We are not able to discuss this with his mother (dad is in jail) as she does not want everyone knowing something is wrong with him. We do a draw every month for a little prize, and he knows he can't win every month, but when his name isn't called he begins yelling and screaming and becomes extremely angry. Even the principal has no idea what to do with him, this kid started a fight on the playground with another student for absolutely no reason and when the prinicipal attempted to dicuss things with him he told the principal to "F off" and walked away from him and there was nothing he could do with it. Apparently this child is in anger management weekly as well.

    Help! If anyone has any experience with this disorder I would love and appreciate some advice!

    Thanks :)
     
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  3. TeachOn

    TeachOn Habitué

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    This really is a job for your principal, who seems however to have decided to take the student's advice, the coward.
     
  4. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    This is a very challenging disorder. There is no medication for it and behavioral interventions are the way you have to go. Do you have a school guidance counselor or psychologist? They would be the ones to help you.
     
  5. lucybelle

    lucybelle Connoisseur

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    Do you have a school social worker? This seems like it should be their job. This kid obviously needs help, or to be in an alternative learning environment.
     
  6. TeachOn

    TeachOn Habitué

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    Yeah. Sorry about the intemperate first thought. I can't imagine, though, a student teacher not getting tons of support with a situation this difficult, nor a principal worthy of the job who would let the situation go on, nor a mentor worthy of the name with no useful advice to give.

    I assume, since you say he is "diagnosed," that Sped is involved. Are they doing anything beyond the usual paperwork? School Psychologist? Somebody?

    If they offer you a job at this school, I'd think twice. Honestly, you'd never find yourself in this situation where I work, not as a regular teacher, and certainly not as a student teacher.
     
  7. lindita323

    lindita323 Companion

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    Hi, I have a student with this disorder as well, and it is one of the most challenging students I have had in 15 years. This students does take medication, but it is administered at school, so he was having a really hard time the first hour of the day, and it was affecting the whole class. Just in the last week, the special ed teacher began taking him in the morning in her small math group. It is making a big difference.. He is able to have time to eat, the medicine kicks in, and the rest of the day has been going much more smoothly. The medicine is not a cure all though, he still has outbursts. In addition to this, he has a "hot pass" that he can use (or I can use) to send him to the special ed teacher. My school also has a "Focus Room" for students that need to be removed from class from major infractions. he was living in there for a while when we were waiting for parents to refill his meds. It is very tough, but hang in there, he is a child, and you may possibly be the most stable person in his life, and you are learning a lot from this situation.
     
  8. Emily Bronte

    Emily Bronte Groupie

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    Maybe this could be moved to the SPED board so that you get more advice. It is a challenging disorder that is for sure. It certainly makes sense that he has been diagnosed with this given how you have described his family situation. I am assumming he is diagnosed with something else as well?
     
  9. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

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    It is situations like this where schools need to have the ability to say; Goodbye. You act this way, you are gone, don't ever set foot on the campus again. But, instead we have to baby our children in this country nowadays.
     
  10. Special-t

    Special-t Enthusiast

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    If I was a sped or gen ed teacher involved with this child, I would start requesting in writing that this child be transferred to a non-public school because he is a danger to himself and others (via email to date stamp my communications). I would document and report any incidents where things were thrown that could injure another student. I would be sending the emails to my sped coordinator with ccs to my administration and the school psychologist. This child needs more intensive and direct help than can be provided in a public school environment.

    Being inclusive is not about putting other kids in danger and putting kids with disabilities in situations where they could hurt others.
     
  11. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    I know how easy it is to write off such a child. But, this child needs your help. One thing I learned from another thread was, "do not punish me, help me succeed." I repeat those words every day that I have my GS. It seems useful to discover what works and what does not work for the child.

    I agree that such an extreme case would be better off in another setting.
     
  12. bros

    bros Phenom

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    No, it should not revert back to the 1950s, no matter how much "better" it may have been.

    Students have rights.

    Adults have rights.

    So you believe that if a student has a disability which makes them act out beyond their control, they should be permanently expelled, they never get educated?

    Then what?

    They just become another statistic, be it homelessness or unemployment, or both.

    All students need rights to protect them from teachers who just don't want to deal with a student they don't work well with. Would you rather have it that the teachers could just decide "Well, Johnny, you angered me today, you are now expelled!"

    Giving people rights is NOT babying nor is it coddling them.
     
  13. Pisces_Fish

    Pisces_Fish Fanatic

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    Students and teachers have rights. But one student is ruining it for the others. All students have a right to feel safe at school. Perhaps this student would be better in a "safe school" or self contained.
     
  14. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    Sadly that is how it is over here. Until the child actually causes someone (another child or adult) serious harm then nothing gets done.

    As a first the school should exclude the child on health and safety grounds. Once he is out of school you will find loads of people taking the child's side and then they can sort something appropriate out for him.

    I know of several cases where despite pleas for help very little was forthcoming until the school excluded, Suddenly everyone comes out of the woodwork!

    We have had advisors from the Authority who have said that if the child hasn't been excluded then he can't be that bad!
     
  15. isabunny

    isabunny Comrade

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    The other students in the class also have the right to learn and feel safe when they are in class. A general education teacher cannot be an expert in every disorder. I had a student like this in preschool. When the student was absent the whole class ran so smoothly. It was a fun, engaging, and upbeat environment. When this student was in class, the classroom was a mess from morning until late day, and I was exhasted from dealing with the tantrums and screaming fits. The other students did not feel safe and heard words/saw things that young students should never have had the exposure to. No matter how many books I read on the disorder, research I completed, and strategies I put into place, without the support of the administration and parents, nothing worked for the long term. I just don't think a teacher should ever be kicked, hit, or cussed at, or the other students should be abused in anyway. Students that have disturbance disorders should always be placed in an environment with professionals that can help them overcome or build stategies for their specific disorder. The general education classroom is not equipted to do this. Teachers and students have the right to learn and if a student is causing problems that interfers with others ability to learn then they should be in that classroom. I would never say to give up on any student! I just really think that the profession needs to focus more on what is right for the individual student and the whole school environment. Small environments with professionals that know how to deal specifically with behavior disorders are right for this type of issue. Mainstreaming is not right for every student, especially when the safety of the students and teachers are at risk.
     
  16. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

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    I never said they can't learn. I said if the student does those extreme things at a school, they must leave THAT school. There are opportunities at other schools. If they mess up one place, they need to go somewhere else and not make those same mistakes so they don't get expelled from every school. When they are physically harmful to the other students in these extreme ways and this verbally defiant to even the Principal, those are lines that when crossed should allow for serious suspensions and expulsions.
     
  17. TeachOn

    TeachOn Habitué

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    I think this gets the balance just right.
     
  18. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    This is what I was thinking as well. There is probably a better, more appropriate environment for this student.
     
  19. runsw/scissors

    runsw/scissors Phenom

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    Students have the right to learn, but teachers should also have the right to be able to teach. If we are constantly untangling arguments, trying to avoid powerstruggles with kids looking for fights, and are being bodily or verbally threatened than everyone's rights to learn and work in a safe environment are being violated. At what point do the rights of one override the rights of others? This is something I am dealing with in my classroom this year as well.
     
  20. GoldenPoppy

    GoldenPoppy Habitué

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    Exactly!

    It is so upsetting that the rights of one can infringe upon the rights of so many others. I am just tired of every imaginable behavior being a "diagnosis" and then being told that there have to be accommodations which impact the entire class. Somebody needs to stand up for the regular kids who are in class, who want to learn, and can't because some other kid is having a fit on a daily basis. It's just wrong for the other students and the teacher too.
     
  21. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    I've only dealt with this in my online setting, where the one-to-one ratio is much easier to handle. In my phone and email contacts with my ODD student, I learned to take a lot of his statements with a shaker of salt (he claimed to have a ton of money, which made him better than I am). In a group setting, such as my real-time classroom, he was more difficult to manage. He insisted on trying to take over conversations and change topics. Unfortunately, he also started finding unmonitored live real-time classroom and using them to meet up with female students. We had to suspend his ability to interact with anyone real-time. Last I had heard, he had run away to live with his aunt... again.

    I had long wondered how traditional classrooms deal with students like this.
     
  22. runsw/scissors

    runsw/scissors Phenom

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    I have two undiagnosed cases in my room. I am not a doctor but I suspect ODD. One is more passive and whiney but will not do what is expected or insturcted a vast majority of the time. He will be stubborn, refuse to take part, and tell the teacher he is leaving and heading to the office if he does not get his way for any reason ranging from not having his work done to not getting his way on the playground. The other is much more aggressive-eye rolling, utter disrespect, talk back to teachers, and threatening physical violence on classmates. He also feels he can just run down to the office whenever he does not like the way things are going. Between emotional meltdowns and blatent defiance I am ready to quit the profession.
     
  23. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    My GS is in a "mood" right now. We stopped to eat at a steak house, and he wanted to eat at McDonalds. He "cried" the whole time we were eating, and is now mad at me. This is the first time he has been mad at me and not his mother. Of course, he does not know that I raised a couple kids that were a handful.
     
  24. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Yes, everyone has a right to feel safe in aclassroom. If a student is throwing objects around, they should not be expelled, but they should be evaluated, as the current placement may be the issue, and they require a more restrictive environment in order to properly thrive.
     
  25. GemStone

    GemStone Habitué

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    How do you use the "hot pass" if the special ed teacher is out of her room teaching kids, or has a group within her room?
     
  26. isabunny

    isabunny Comrade

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    Sometimes those evaluations and the RTI system take so long! Let's use the term immediate evaluation and action. That way it doesn't take six months before action is taken so the student receives the right placement. Many students are just passed on to the next teacher for the process to start all over again. I remember doing tons of evaluating, researching, strategizing, writing extensive notes on every situation, and even voice recording some of the screaming tantrums. Still nothing was done to help! When you have a child in the classroom that constantly tells the other students that "I want you to die" or phyisically harms the other students (won't get into details), that child needs to be removed immediatly. I had to watch the student like a hawk, trying to make sure the other students didn't get hurt and hoping that nothing huge would happen on my watch. It was too much responsibility for me! I felt like I would be the one to blame if something happened. I documented like crazy. I keep thinking, "I really just want to be able to teach and have fun with the projects/curriculum I spent my off hours designing and prepping." When you are constantly dealing with these types of disorders in a general ed classroom, it is almost impossible to actually TEACH! You become a babysitter, not a teacher! The other students suffer because they can't learn. It really turned me off of the teaching profession. I hope my passion for teaching returns!
     
  27. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

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    Couldn't agree more.
    Kids like this are allowed to dictate the workings of a class, and that's simply not right. Ship them out if they act in a dangerous or thoughtless way like that. What's the difference between throwing pencil boxes in class, and throwing rocks on the playground? Because they have some official "disorder"? If kids are scared or uneasy because they don't know if this kid sitting next to them might blow up... is that anxiety any different han anxiety over a playground bully?
     
  28. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    It's an incredibly rough balance between compliance with ADA and consideration of classroom safety. I suppose it comes down to Least Restrictive Environment. What a tough call to make!
     
  29. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    Surely all it would take is the parents of the child who has to sit next to the problem kid to take out a court case against the school or Authority for failing to ensure their child's safety or education?
     
  30. FourSquare

    FourSquare Fanatic

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    I have not one, but TWO students with current ties to a mental hospital. One has been absent for over a week due to being evaluated as an inpatient. One was diagnosed with schizophrenia and mom wont medicate. These, plus the anger management issues of a couple other students, make my classroom almost impossible at times. They are on the way to expulsion and I feel terrible....but they really need to be in a sped room or a school that can meet their needs. I cannot.
     
  31. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    I had a child 1 year that was diagnosed as ODD & ADHD as a Kindergartener. He wasn't diagnosed until May of that year. Mom had moved him from a school to our school. He was constantly being suspended at his previous school. It wasn't until he started having problems with me that Mom decided that it might be him.

    I learned to watch for those signals that indicated that he was about to become defiant. I would try to find ways to distract him, maybe a walk with an adult. I'm sure I did other things too, I just don't remember.

    Sometimes, he just needed to be held.

    Often times after a melt-down, if given time, he could get it back together, other times, he just needed to be sent home. Oh, those melt-downs were awful!

    He took a lot of work and he still has melt downs, but he's learned how to calm himself down. He needed a lot of TLC. I don't hear about him as near as much as I did last year! I know that it has taken a lot of work from his classroom teacher, the school social worker, the Dean of Students, the Principal and a couple of other staff members.

    SPED? This child wouldn't qualify academically.
     
  32. lovebeingteach

    lovebeingteach Companion

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    I have a student who sounds like a clone of this child. I got an idea to make a "Positive Behavior Book" for him. Every time he does something good, I write it in the book. In the beginning I would write about 50 things per day. I would put the smallest thing that he did in there. For example, ______ sat in his seat for 3 minutes! YEAH! Then when he started to act out, I would tell him to go get his book and read it. (He is a very good reader, but this could be an obstacle if the child can not read well. However, in that case, you could take pictures of him doing good things throughout the day and put them in the book.) You wouldn't believe it, but this book helped eliminate about 50% of the behaviors. It is important to never write anything bad in the book, only good. He takes it home and has it signed every day.
     
  33. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    I absolutely love that!
     
  34. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Yeah, immediate was what I meant.

    Although I think with a case like that, the district would try to fast track the evaluation :p
     
  35. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    I am stealing this idea for 2 of my kids! Not that they are ODD, but they constantly make the wrong choice! 1 of them I suspect is ADHD and the other might be, but there might be something else going on with him.
     
  36. lindita323

    lindita323 Companion

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    Hi,

    The special ed teacher has a full time assistant in the room to work with the kids who have similar problems....
     
  37. ciounoi

    ciounoi Cohort

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    I teach a room full of kids with ODD. For the most part, they are good kids with particularly low tolerance levels for frustration and difficulty controlling their emotional reaction. In my opinion, most of these kids probably belong in special ed, somewhere. I can't imagine some of my students being in regular ed - I mean, they yell curse words and throw things on a daily basis....

    I've found that it helps with these kids not to make any demands. That doesn't mean you let them do what they want, but rather you phrase the demand as their own personal choice.

    Teacher: Please do these math problems.
    Kid: No, F you!
    Teacher: I'll leave them here on your desk. I hope you'll have time to do them during this period so you don't have to do it during free time.

    Most kids see the light within 5 minutes. :) We address the language and the handling of the incident later.
     
  38. FourSquare

    FourSquare Fanatic

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    :woot:....I can try that! MORE TIPS PLEASE! :thanks:
     
  39. TechGuy

    TechGuy Rookie

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    kids like this don't belong in regular classes. they ruin the learning for everybody. instead of accommodating the special ed, why not also accommodate the gifted? where are THEIR rights for example?

    if my child said he saw a child throw a text book or pencil at other's heads then I'd come yelling and threatening to sue.

    no wonder this country is going down hill
     
  40. iteachbx

    iteachbx Enthusiast

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    Maybe he needs his own type of behavior/reward system where he has a way to earn a prize even if his name isn't picked out for the month. It could be a small prize, but something he is always working towards so he doesn't flip out like that when he doesn't win. For example, we pick a winner in our class to win a prize at the end of each day (like a pencil or eraser, something small) but if students earn a certain number of tickets, they get a similar small prize at the end of the week. It keeps kids from getting upset that their name wasn't chosen. Obviously this won't solve all the problems with this child, but it might help with that one issue.
     
  41. iteachbx

    iteachbx Enthusiast

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    The problem is many parents in certain school districts don't complain about stuff like this. This goes on all the time at my school and it doesn't matter how many times the teacher's write it up and document it real change isn't going to happen unless God forbid someone gets seriously hurt or hopefully a parent goes in and starts complaining about the stuff their children are witnessing. Unfortunately it's not happening. Some parents might feel intimidating, maybe they don't know it's their place, I don't know what it is. But I know of teachers who have literally told children to go home and complain to their parents b/c they know that's the only way change will happen. It's sad.
     

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