One school's approach to discipline...

Discussion in 'General Education' started by JustMe, Aug 21, 2010.

  1. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Aug 21, 2010

    This story tells of one school which requires students with five infractions to wear a white t-shirt, eat away from classmates, talk only for educational purposes, meet with the principal daily, demonstrate positive behaviors, and write a letter to classmates explaining why they would be fully welcomed back into the earning community. Any thoughts?
     
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  3. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    The children in my class who are the most behaviorally challenged show even worse behavior if they are singled out in front of others. (keeping face, I guess). so, I would not be in favor of what that school does.
     
  4. skittleroo

    skittleroo Connoisseur

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    appaulling. I am big on discipline and consequences, but that????Wow!
     
  5. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    I love it. Schools should be learning communities. Those kids who act out when in trouble are not part of the community. Get them out. There are far more "good" kids than "bad" in any school. A plan like this empowers the good ones by saying simply "if you want to be part of this school this is who you will be."

    Put the power in their hands, they deserve it.
     
  6. peridotylayne

    peridotylayne Companion

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    Love it.. I WISH being sent to the office was a good thing in my school.. sending a student to the office is like giving them a get out of jail free card.
     
  7. shouldbeasleep

    shouldbeasleep Enthusiast

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    Too harsh for me. I may have been one forced to wear a white t-shirt in middle school due to a teacher having "had enough" of her unruly class, and I would have been so angry about it that it might have made me want to continue. What would happen if you had a teacher who abused the situation?
     
  8. TeacherApr

    TeacherApr Groupie

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    lol I am so NOT politically correct or one in support of the "poor me" syndrome but I'm waiting for people to start shouting the words "it's humiliating" and "this is going against the constitution" or something as dumb.

    Hey, if you break a rule, you obviously want attention...now, ya got it! lol
     
  9. shouldbeasleep

    shouldbeasleep Enthusiast

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    As a teacher, I'd probably be forced to wear the white t-shirt several times a year.
     
  10. FourSquare

    FourSquare Fanatic

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    I don't get the white t-shirt thing....? Is it just to brand the student? Why a white t-shirt? :confused:
     
  11. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

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    All of the kids at my school are required to wear white shirts.

    They must be really bad.
     
  12. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

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    The biggest problem I see is that the kids are in trouble for breaking rules. So you give them more rules to break. That gets them in more trouble. I've seen it happen many times before.
     
  13. Lynn K.

    Lynn K. Habitué

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    We had a guest speaker who suggested this sort of banishment from the community for bullies. The idea was that the community let the bully know that their actions/words were not acceptable, but that they would be welcomed back if they apologized. The idea was that the entire school was empowered to stand up for itself.
     
  14. silverspoon65

    silverspoon65 Enthusiast

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    I agree. And some rules aren't as "important" as others, and it is ok to interpret some rules the way you want, but not others.

    Make a few rules that are important and enforce them. Period.

    If that was actually occurring, than this school might have something.
     
  15. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    I can't imagine it working.

    In my experience, humiliating a kid only leads him to act out more.

    Discipline is one thing. Embarassing a kid to that extent boxes him into a corner. The only way he can save face in front of his peers is to act out even more-- the whole "Is this the best you've got???" kind of attitude.
     
  16. chebrutta

    chebrutta Enthusiast

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    I like the idea of meeting with the principal and discussing behavior - I liked the tone he used when speaking with the kids - and I think it would be effective for the kids to see that admin really cares about them, their choices, and wants them to be the best they can WHILE helping them figure out how to do that.

    But I hate, hate, hate the idea of singling them out by forcing them to dress differently from the other students. I could see a lot of my kids wearing white shirts in protest when a friend gets in trouble.
     
  17. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Reading this thread brought to mind a couple of my past students--whose parents would have to invest in a whole new wardrobe of white shirts. To be honest, I'd probably wear a white shirt in support of them as well. While I fully believe that students need to be accountable for their actions and accept responsibility, I don't believe that it needs to be done publicly.
     
  18. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    I agree. Also, maybe because I teach children with behavior disabilities, I find that using a strategy of humiliation and degradation is not conducive to teaching them positive behavior skills.
     
  19. apple25

    apple25 Comrade

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    I see that the Principal really cares for them and I do agree with a tough love approach, but I think singling them out and isolating them creates more problems then it addresses. I can think of many many students at my school where we celebrate the fact that they were able to come to school today. Being forced to wear a white Tshirt would be plenty enough reason for them to stay home.

    However, I do really like the positive support that comes out of a visit to the office, and the fact that misbehaving students are expected to meet very high standards.
     
  20. TiffanyL

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    Gosh, I have so many issues with this. I think the principal's heart was in the right place...but the white shirts just ruin it for me.

    We have a similar program for kids at our school. But these are the roughest of the rough....not just for minor infractions. Good grief. Anyhow, these kids check in with me every morning and every afternoon. They also spend their lunch break with me on Mondays and Fridays (to start the week and wrap up the week).

    Last year, these students apparently had red folders to indicate they were one of "these" students. The red folders held their "check-in" paperwork, etc.

    Our staff let me know on the first work day of this year that the "red folders have to go". They said it was humiliating and that all students knew who "those" kids were. Have I said recently that I LOVE MY STAFF!!??

    Anyway, I'm all for positive trips to the office. The kids who see me are not horrid little people....they need some guidance, some counseling, someone who "gets" them. If that person needs to be me, then great, I have no problem with it. But making them feel that there is something wrong with them.....not gonna happen. And making them feel as if their classmates get to determine if they are worthy to return.....REALLY not gonna happen!
     
  21. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    Would YOU want to wear a white shirt if your P didn't like something you did? How would YOU feel in front of your peers. Would it make you straighten up (you may not have intended to get in trouble in the first place--some students struggle with some skills) or would it make you want to vent and be more upset?
     
  22. kfhsdramaqueen

    kfhsdramaqueen Rookie

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    I personally like it. I worked for a lottery school for my ST, and while we didn't do this, we had a three strikes and you're out approach. The rules were very clear - if you broke them, intentionally or not, you were out, and someone else got your spot. We care to much about making the kids feel good about themselves than about educating them.
     
  23. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    We can discipline without degrading, and combine education with making kids feel as though they are worth someone's time and attention--it doesn't need to be either-or.
     
  24. KateL

    KateL Habitué

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    This system is pretty common at KIPP schools. It works at some of them but not at others, depending on the population of students and how they react to being singled out.
     
  25. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Absolutely!!!

    No one here is suggesting that the kids who don't obey the rules should get off without consequences.

    Merely that public humiliation is not the most humane, not to mention educationally sound, choice of consequences.

    When kids are chosen as targets of public humiliation, we call it "hazing" or "bulllying" and punish the instigators.

    Except, apparently, when the adults choose that course of action. Then we call it "discipline.":eek:
     
  26. Special-t

    Special-t Enthusiast

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    I'd replace the shunning with no elective for a set amount of time served for the infractions (perhaps replaced with the meeting with the principal) and perhaps some service work where they have positive interactions with adult life-coaches.

    I think the shunning and white t-shirt is the wrong way for the school to go. These kids need positive adult interaction, not separation from their peers. The separation only addresses the surface issue of misbehavior and doesn't teach replacement skills.
     
  27. mom2mikey

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    I would think that these kids are just learning how to be sneaky about things rather than how they should be behaving... afterall the white t-shirt sends that message that its all about outward appearances!

    I wouldn't continue to teach at this school if I were there but if it somehow happened I would invest in entire wardrobe of white and wear it.
     
  28. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Sorry, but we disagree.

    I think it's the policy that's "dumb" and not the description of it.

    And, in my experience at least, it doesn't work. Putting a kid into a position where he needs to publicly save face in front of his peers never does. And for infractions such as "chewing gum"???? Seems like they're intent on winning the battle but losing the war.
     
  29. Bumble

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    My students who have behavior issues would flip out and would probably run out of the school. Signaling out students like this is not appropriate and IMO does not help the child.
     
  30. TeacherShelly

    TeacherShelly Aficionado

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    It made me think of the Scarlet Letter. Maybe a big R for rebel on their shirts?
     
  31. Zelda~*

    Zelda~* Devotee

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    As an ED teacher I'm banging my head against my desk right now. This is a horrible idea. Drawing more attention to these kiddos is the worst possible thing you can do.

    They (a lot of them) already feel like social outcasts...they need help, not to be treated like typhoid Mary....
     
  32. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    I've also got to wonder who gave permission for a news crew to take pictures of particular offenders and air them.

    So these kids are humiliated not just in front of their entire school community, but to the entire world via internet. I've never heard of their school, but now I know who the "bad kids" are.

    For what it's worth, I DO like the idea of the "frequent flyers" checking in with the principal every day. That makes lots of sense to me-- kind of like the idea behind AA or Weight Watchers meetings.
     
  33. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    A few years back in my previous schol we aquired a couple of American brothers, their dad was a visiting lecturer for a year at the local University and we used to pick up quite a few foreign students that way. Anyhow one of my colleagues was a very strict disciplinarian and on the whole so was the school. Anyway the elder brother was in his Chemistry class and decided to chat to another student while the teacher was talking. He was asked (told) to stop. Anyway he carried on chatting and was ordered to 'give me 5' (press ups), this still didn't cure him from chatting and so he was then asked to stand up and remain standing, next day both boys were withdrawn from the 'barbaric' school. Strangly none of the Russian, Korean, Japanese or other European kids ever had a problem with our discipline!

    In another area of the country the kids that misbehave on the school transport and picked up in a special pink bus and taken to school. The good kids get to enjoy their journey without having to put up with the idiaot and the idiots get to learn that if they can be civilised then they will get to ride on the bus with the other kids!
     
  34. ekk5968

    ekk5968 Rookie

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    The broadcast indicated that it was working. Kids only had to go through the process once or twice before they got their act together. And for that school only o have had two fights for the entire school year is AMAZING!!!!!

    The student don't seem to feel humiliated at all. They seem to understand the process and understand that their behavior was not ok. We get too caught up in babying (sp?) these student. Some times its appropriate for children to get tough love. I also think its appropriate for them to wear the white shirts. The uniform signals being apart of the community. And when your behavior jeopardizes that you need not be apart of the community until you prov that you're not bent on try to destroy it.
     
  35. teacherSMK

    teacherSMK Habitué

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    I am in favor of the meetings with the Principal...that is about it. I cannot imagine requiring white t-shirts because of chewing gum, etc. I agree that discipline is needed, but as other posters have stated - degradation is not needed. In my experience the students that are "frequent flyer - trouble makers" are students looking for attention. Most of the time this attention is desired due to issues outside of school. I so do not want to stereotype and say that all the "bad behavior" in school is due to home-life, however, I do believe it is a huge contributing factor. And even if this program only affects one child that is already experiencing a painful home-life, that is one too many. I firmly believe school should be a safe place. Free from bullying of any kind. Having other students "judge" because Johnny is in a white shirt is not ok to me on any level. I know I am ranting but this really upset me. I would be so angry if one of my children was expected to wear a white shirt in front of their peers. It is a form of bullying in itself, and does not help the kids.
     

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