One bad little apple...

Discussion in 'Early Childhood Education Archives' started by watermelon0719, Mar 24, 2006.

  1. watermelon0719

    watermelon0719 Rookie

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    Mar 24, 2006

    Hi ladies! I have a little boy in my class who has major behavioral problems. He is a sweetheart, but he goes into major rages when he doesn't get his way (i.e., doesn't get to talk loudly during class when the other kids are trying to learn), bangs his head on walls, cabinets, etc., tears stuff off the walls and SCREAMS. I've talked to the director of the program, and she said to just have one of the daycare attendants who work in the same building come get him out of class. Well, I've done that twice so far, and it really helps the class. We get a lot more done and they are a lot more well behaved when he's not there. But I don't want to keep calling the attendants to come get him because A) I want him to learn and B) I don't want them to think I'm incapable of managing my kids. What can I do?? The child's father has custody of him, and he is not helpful at all. We've already tried talking to him, but he just tells us to give him whatever he wants. HELP!!! :confused:
     
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  3. ViolaSwamp

    ViolaSwamp Habitué

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    I would start billing the dad for all of the things that his son demands--you know if he starts asking for extra treats or toys. Let him take them home, just put them on the tuition bill. Hit daddy in the pocket book--jerk. Sorry that's not very helpful.

    If it is working to have him taken out don't feel ashamed. It's not that you can't handle things it's just that this kid is above and beyond. I think he needs to be ignored. I hope the aides do not carry on conversations with him when they remove him. It seems to me that he is craving attention. Be sure to give him as much positive attention that you can when it is appropriate. Keep up the good work!
     
  4. Play to Learn

    Play to Learn Comrade

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    How about asking the daycare attendent to sit in class with him? I once worked at child care center and for the children who had problems (such as this boy does) They had a caregiver just for them. They would stay with them all day. You prob cannot do that. But you need to get control of this boy. I would not let him out of the room. I understand you cannot teach with him doing the things he is doing. (been There). Once he rips something down leave it doen, soon he will have nothing to rip down. Also make him clean up the mess he made ripping things off the wall. I have taken childrens hands and made them pick up things they have thrown in the floors. I should say helped them to pick things up. If they refused we would stand there and do nothing else until he or she did. I have one who flipped chairs and threw papers in the floor. I told him It was unacceptable and I was not going to let him hurt one of my friends and to pick up the chair and clean up the papers in a firm voice. They know me I am so easy going that when I said it he knew I meant it. But I feel you need to keep renforcing your rules, try different things, you'll be rewarded when he begins to learn and can operate well in the classroom. Is he school bound? If so tell him he is a big boy and needs to be ready for the big school. I have a few that tried me at the beginning of the year. Just stick with what you say, I never send a child out of the room unless I am so stressed. I am usually the one to take from the other classroom, who is not listening. I have to pat myself on the back, they do well in my room. Some children are feely feely got to work with them not against them. We have one in the other class, if you are firm and hard on him he rebells. When I have him I am loving but firm with my rules still.For eaxample I helped the other teacher out one morning. I put the childrens names down on the circletime rug to help with classroom management. This boy did not want to sit by a certian child so he moved his name away but was still close to circle and the teacher. I told him that was ok. The way I see it. He is still in circle, close to the teacher and happy. I know blah blah blah I could type for hours. LOL I love the kids and our stories. Hope I helped. Hang in there. Look at it as "he needs you"
     
  5. Butterfly4

    Butterfly4 Comrade

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    Mar 24, 2006

    Today was the last day for a little girl in my class (thank goodness). She was very distracting, would rarely join in on group activities (circle time, story, etc) instead would be playing in the sink, doing about anything else. When she would join, she would interrupt constantly. If you talked to her, or tried to get her to come join the group, she would crawl under a table and suck her thumb. She just wasn't working in a group setting. She was rarely voilent toward others, but the "straw that broke the camels back" was a week ago, she had the blue scissors, another little girl had the pink ones she wanted. She knocked the little girl over and hit her on the cheek with the scissors (thankfully the handles, not the blade).

    Anyway, my point is...we had to call up to the office and have someone come get her and take her up A LOT!!! Don't feel bad about having to do that...It's not fair to the rest of the children to have to be distracted by that child.

    I might talk to your director and suggest that maybe this isn't the best place for that particular child. I know that is not a great answer, but some children just arent ready for a group setting. I know next week is going to be so much better without our little "angel". And there are a few kids that were starting to copy her behavior - you don't want that!!
     
  6. Play to Learn

    Play to Learn Comrade

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    Mar 24, 2006

    Sorry girls I just dont believe on giving up on a child. I can understand if they are hurting the other children. But tantrums, no. If you kick them out of your childcare setting and they are put in another what have they learned? Nothing. Now is the time to teach the children the behavior they need for school. Some children may have medical things going on we or the parents may not even know about. We are here to figure the kids out, like a puzzle. Chances are if your center kicks a child out then the next one will too. This will mess the kid up even more.Not to mention the lost time the child could be learning. I also see how this will effect the other children in care. If you talk about the behaviors that is inappropiate then the other children will be less likely to copy them. Children this age want to please adults. Maybe this little boy needs counseling. He may have seen his parents fighting this way, maybe dad does this at home when he gets mad. He may think that is the way you act when you are not happy. That maybe all he knows. I just hate to see a child passes on when he needs help. I dont mean this in a bad way when I say it. But some teachers are better at handling behavior children than others. Maybe he would do better with another teacher in your center?
     
  7. ViolaSwamp

    ViolaSwamp Habitué

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    Mar 24, 2006

    Girls? I was not suggesting that watermelon give up. I said watermelon should not feel guilty for having to remove the child. Maybe it wasn't the best suggestion but I did not suggest watermelon give up.

    By the way I am a girl but we need to be careful because there are male teachers here who wouldn't like you assuming they were a girl just because they teach. I usually imagine we are all women but I try not to type it that way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2006
  8. Play to Learn

    Play to Learn Comrade

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    Mar 24, 2006

    :) Hey just trying to be friendly. I am a very friendly person I was just putting my thoughts about it all out there. It does not matter what you or anyone else decides to do to me. We are all each our own person. I thought this was a post that we could all reply openly to. And Watermelon began this post "Hi Ladies". And I was not saying you said or anyone else said to give up. I was just adding my thoughts to the post. I had began typing on the quick post and started running out of room. I would say I was sorry but I have done nothing wrong.
     
  9. ViolaSwamp

    ViolaSwamp Habitué

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    Sorry if I sounded harsh I guess I misunderstood you. I took your note to say we were 'giving up'. Which to me is a very serious 'no no'. Okay and to make things fair...Note to watermelon--remember we are not all Ladies.:)
     
  10. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    Mar 24, 2006

    A lot of good ideas in these posts. I can see that many people have had the same issue--the disruptive child. I have been on both sides of this issue, as my grandson was "asked to leave" two centers due to agressive behavior-- before he was 2. My biggest concern is that the center needs to try to help. The parent(s) and the school must communicate and get on the same page. I see that the father has said to give in. Maybe he doesn't have a clue what to do. You could make his attendance in a parenting group part of a plan to manage the child. Don't give up. Look to the early childhood community for assistance. Some agency must have some support available. As a teacher, you need to keep using your teaching skills to assist the child. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
     
  11. Syele

    Syele Companion

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    Mar 25, 2006

    I'm the home daycare they call when the center kicks them out. :0 One little girl.. if anyone asks her what school she goes to she says "I was BAD in school so they made me leave and not come back!" If you kick them out most will end up either being kicked out of more places or get sent to a Babysitter that doesn't help them get ready for school at all.

    Most of the time I find these kids just have parents that don't know how to deal with them and give them whatever they like, just to make them happy and "act better." We can't usually change the parents but we can make it clear to the kids that there are ALWAYS consequences to actions and we won't back down. (Don't forget the good consequences like "having such fun and not being mad so much" as well!) Most kids tell me they HATE me within the first day. One Girl told me last month that I'm the meanest lady in the whole world. The one who tells people she was bad in school once (the first week at my place) said I was "Disgusting."

    There's alot of screaming on the part of the kids when they get here but it fades when they see what really works and what dosn't. The same little girl who said I was disgusting recently said to me quite calmly, "I am angry right now and need to go cool off." When she'd been Cooling off for awhile I asked if she was done and she said.. "Yes M'am I am all done." (I never told her to call me m'am lol) her mom heard that and started asking me how to improve things at home! The kids like me much better when they see how nice it is to have control of themselves. :) The fighting/Hating stage is short (Thankfully!). Then they are begging to stay longer to finish projects and asking permission to eat dinner here!

    The kids may miss some time learning the lesson plans but they also learn a good lesson in acceptable behavior. that is a big part of kids going to pre-school... to prepare them for the way school/society works as opposed to at home. Once they learn to act better and a new kid arrives who screams and throws tantrums.. they see just how bad it is to even watch someone behave that way.

    I agree alot with Play to Learn... Be firm with the rules and stick to all you say... if he rips a poster off the wall in a rage he should have to help tape it back to together and put it back up there. I tell the kids here that Screaming Hurts my ears, is unacceptable and is disturbing everyone else... if they can' t help but scream they will have to leave the area others are in. (In your case I'd have the teacher who takes him out not talk to him at all, just be making sure he isn't all alone to wander off or what have you and have him return when he is done.) Think about it... if we as adults feel the need to scream we either stifle it or we go in a closed garage or somewhere ALONE so it won't bother others...
     
  12. watermelon0719

    watermelon0719 Rookie

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    Mar 25, 2006

    Thanks everyone! This has been very helpful. I guess I will keep working with him like I have been doing - being firm, yet reinforcing positive behavior. I hope things start improving soon - he's a really sweet kid, he just has issues. Thanks again! :)
     
  13. JenPooh

    JenPooh Virtuoso

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    I didn't have a lot of time to read all the posts, so I apologize if I repeat anything that has been said.

    If the dad is unwillling to work with you, then when he has these fits, call him and tell him he has to come and get him. I don't know, maybe let him have one, then the 2nd time he goes home, or something like that. I agree with many sugesstions given for the child, but the parent also has to learn too! If there isn't any consitancy, then everything you try will not be worth it. Sorry to sound harsh, but the simple truth is it can not be done if the consistancy between home and school is not there.
     
  14. Myname

    Myname Comrade

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    Mar 29, 2006

    Watermelon how is it going with him? Like I said in my instant message to you I CAN SO RELATE.
     
  15. watermelon0719

    watermelon0719 Rookie

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    Thanks, Myname. :) Your PM was so helpful! I actually tried the method you said - back to the child, while in the corner and that has been working wonders with all of my little disruptive ones. :) So far I have 2 or 3 who are really, really spoiled. However, with this particular little guy, I find that reasoning with him before he gets into his mad rages helps a lot more. I also use a lot of positive reinforcement with him. It's so touching, he's started to call me Mama. I think he just really needs a tender, mother-figure in his life, so that is the strategy I am going for with him. But like I said, I have 2-3 "tantrum throwers" and your method works best with them!! :)
     
  16. smiles_of_three

    smiles_of_three Rookie

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    Have any of you's watched The Nanny? It's a t.v. show that comes on and I have found it very useful! That lady is a GIFT! She turns these "monster" kids into great kids in a week! She has a lot of great ideas! You'll have to check it out!
     
  17. JenPooh

    JenPooh Virtuoso

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    You mean Super Nanny?
     
  18. smiles_of_three

    smiles_of_three Rookie

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    yes!!! (Sorry) That show is wonderfull!
     
  19. JenPooh

    JenPooh Virtuoso

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    There is the other one too...I forgot the name, with a bunch of different nannies that take turns going to houses to shape up the children. I have watched it, why can't I remember the name? It's on the tip of my tongue!
     
  20. smiles_of_three

    smiles_of_three Rookie

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    cant remember the name , but their great shows with great tips that I have used as well.
     
  21. JenPooh

    JenPooh Virtuoso

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    Oh, got it...Nanny 911 is the other one!
     
  22. smiles_of_three

    smiles_of_three Rookie

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    Thrie ya go, at least you figured it out!
     
  23. Play to Learn

    Play to Learn Comrade

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    Mar 30, 2006

    Key words for the day is "OPEN MINDED" We are all teachers so I know we all can be. So guys or girls, ladies or men it should not bother you it is little and petty. If it said guys or men who cares. It is a post. Not the end of the world. Sorry but this has really be bugging me. It should be no biggy.
     
  24. JenPooh

    JenPooh Virtuoso

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    I agree. There are bigger things to agonize over.
     
  25. JenPooh

    JenPooh Virtuoso

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    It was a general statement deary. Even though you don't get in a tizzy over it, there are some people out there who do get upset over teenie things like that :cool: . I was just making a statement, that is all. :angel:
     
  26. ViolaSwamp

    ViolaSwamp Habitué

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    You're welcome.

    Watermelon I'm so glad you are finding things that work!
     
  27. ViolaSwamp

    ViolaSwamp Habitué

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    I'm sorry this has been bugging you. I really did not mean for it to come across as mean (any part of my post). I just want all of us to be open and welcoming to everyone here. I really did not mean any harm and am sorry it bothered you.:eek:
     
  28. tina007

    tina007 Rookie

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    I've had one of those in my room all year. He's been a terror on several levels and hitting/kicking has been his biggest problem. On a weekly basis he visits with our school counselor to work on his issues, but I really haven't seen any improvement. We have sent things home to parents and I have documented minor injuries to students he has caused. Because I'm at a public school he's really going to have to hurt someone for him to be removed. I have him isolated at his own table, he looses his center time if he acts mean toward his classmates. I don't want him to go because he needs to be in school, but several of my parents who volunteer in my room would like him to be gone. So far they understand the issue, but the minute he really hurts someone they will complain BIG TIME.

    The other child I have in the room is from our PPCD unit and he come for about 1 hour every day. If he starts to have issues I can go and get his teacher or aide. They will either stay in the room with us or take him back to their room. I try to leave that call up to them since his placement in my room is for "educational group setting" not center activities. He has gotten much better since he started with us last October. His aide rarely comes with him as he wants to be independent in my room and that's what they were hoping for. He still has a long way to go, but everyday that I don't have to call for help is a success for him.
     
  29. GSK Day care

    GSK Day care Rookie

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    Apr 5, 2006

    Positive Reinforcement - when to say when

    :p HI, I have a Family Child Care in PA. I had a child being evaluated for a sensory disorder that was a foster child at the time. He would hurt himself more than others really and would bang his head on things on purpose at times. The child came from a background of neglect. Attention was not the only motivation but also the actual sensation of the boo boo was what he was motivated by. This child with patience and basic behavior modification and LOTS of positive reinforcement and consistency (and not without frustration) ended up handling the group situation very well. Within months he was well adjusted into both routines, activities and naps. It was hard initially but After hours of reading and soul-searching and sticking with all the good methods and recommendations from well respected child care sources I fell that persistence and again lots of positive reinforcement worked really well.

    I also had a 3 year old boy that had been cared for by grandparents with very little socialization when he came to me (at the time 2.5) that started displaying aggressive behavior once he got closer to 3. He would push, hit, or flare up in anger constantely and became very defiant and opposed to any correction. He seemed immune initially to the methods that again include a lot of positive reinforcement, thinking time or calm down time when necessary, help to use his words, various aids like books about hitting and encouraging him to understand other child’s feelings. I was able to prevent serious interaction with other kids and the child was never so much intent on hurting as he just was not able to control these temper flares. Again it was a hard situation at the time but only one thing worked. Persistence. One day that time came when things clicked. Another day something else. As I look back now I can see the road this child took to learn this very challenging lesson of self control.

    Positive reinforcement as helpless you may feel with that as a tool initially has by far been my most helpful device when it comes to situations like that. Persistence and consistency the other.

    Yet another child was a different story for me. He was a kindergartner and I accepted him as a drop in child for an emergency. He had a history of behavior problems, I was not aware of the extent but I knew he was a restless child and had a hard time concentrating and listening. He would say bad words and act out when he felt embarrassed or stressed or during transitions or when corrected and it would escalate and only when it went to far it would occur to him and show as a sad but defiant disappointment. I felt for him but having him a very short time I felt that the volatile behavior he displayed was not something I could have in my child care. My toddlers deserved and absolutely needed to have a safe and happy environment and his problems were deeper than I could help. The fact that he was also a drop in child made it hard to work on nay issues at all with any consistency. I ended up terminating agreement very quickly. The parents had not been honest to the extent of his behaviour out of desperation I can only assume. I felt for him but also could not jeopardize the group I care for. He was only 6 and very confused and I could want to help him all I wanted but it was not the right setting nor would I have fullfilled my promise to the other kids and their parents to keep them safe.

    How do we know when it is time to back off. I am not sure. It is not fair to keep a child around that will jeopardize the other children’s safety or learning environment. There are things that can be worked on with extra effort of provider or teacher. Monitoring has to come with it and as long as the situation can be handled while a positive classroom or day care is maintained time will reward the effort. When it creates distress or danger or extreme situations whether the kids are subject to or just observing these outburst it needs to be addressed – even if temporarily – outside of the classroom setting or in a special setting. Safety of the kids are the main concern even before the teaching and the fun and play.

    Humbly I hope I make these decision right when I have to but I am sure to doubt myself when I do, either way... : ) Positive reinforcement has been my most powerful asset and it is so much fun to give too!!!!
     
  30. Janice

    Janice Rookie

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    Apr 7, 2006

    He sounds like he needs to in a program for children with disabilities. These include, behavior issues as well as speech etc. He may qualify for social emotional issues. If this is the case, he would attend a program provided by the school district he lives in. The parent would need to contact the school and ask for an evaluation. I teach in this kind of program.
     

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