OLD TRADITIONAL TEACHER

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Called2Teach, Jul 31, 2007.

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  1. Called2Teach

    Called2Teach Rookie

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    How do you deal with an old traditional teacher in your team? She doesn't want to use blogs in journal writing, she doesn't want to use the latest editions of books that are available anyway, and her interpretation of communicative competence in language teaching is so different! She's the oldest in the team and she should serve like the mentor of the younger generation but she looks down on us! She doesn't even know that there's 10 parts of speech already! She can be really frustrating. How do you deal with a person like that?
     
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  3. srh

    srh Devotee

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    Well, now there's an age-old (pun intended!) question... no matter what field you're in or who surrounds you, this question will come up because that's just how life is!

    I'm not sure there is a specific answer to your question, so forgive me here. But I'd say that "old and traditional" is just as valid a style as "new and trendy." In other words, you can't abolish an entire style! There will ALWAYS be people who do things the "old way," and one day, you'll probably be there too! Technology can be a really scarey thing for some folks..."new-fangled methods" of discipline stress some people too! It doesn't mean they shouldn't move on, but... Having said that, though, nearly anyone can be positively motivated by another if approached in a respectful and sincerely caring way. Include her in discussions--don't push! Solicit her advice within her expertise--but don't be phony about it. She likely dealt with similar situations when she was your age, believe it or not; maybe you can remind her gently what it is like to move forward...just remember there are many good things about "traditional."

    Sorry for the preachy aspect of the message; I just have the utmost respect for teachers who have been there and done that. Even when they create frustration around them. I think it's our job to find a way to include them better. Focus on what she can contribute, and you'll find you can learn from her as much as she might learn from you. And she will, if you don't shut her out!
     
  4. TulipsGirl

    TulipsGirl Cohort

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    called 2teach: It can be really frustrating, I know! I've been there.
    While she probably is giving you the "holier than though" impression, she might really feel threatened by new teachers with enthusiasm, excitement , fresh ideas. She's been there forever, and now, new people are taking over with terms and ideas she needs to get used too...

    srh, I like the idea of asking her advice in her area of expertise. I know she's not up to date on a lot of things, but there's gotta be something she does well. Ask her how she does it. Think about how much you can complement each other: you with your fresh ideas, she with her years and years of experience in the room regarding efficiency etc.


    When you find something you really like, ask her (sincerely) if she'd like copies... She might say no. (like the teacher I'm thinking of in my school does.)That's okay.

    I don't want to sound like i don't understand where you're coming from - I do! (I have a teacher like this, too) but you're not going to change her. You are only responsible for how YOU approach this situation and how you respond. This, I think, is the best way:

    Keep putting your own slant on your classroom, while she puts her own slant on hers. Watch, and learn.
     
  5. Brendan

    Brendan Fanatic

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    Do things your way if they do not want to change then it is up to them. I am a Deparment Chair and I usually speak to teachers who teach in a too Tradiotnal Manner and the kids are not learning. Usually these teachers are a little bit lazy, which drives me nuts.
     
  6. Called2Teach

    Called2Teach Rookie

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    It's good to know I don't own the boat alone!

    She can really be so frustrating sometimes. I don't think she's even efficient. She's the kind who perceives efficiency as making life harder as a teacher when she could make it simpler. (E.g.thinking of her own test items when there are tons of resources from the internet and other books. Then she blamed us that we are plagiarizing! The nerve!)

    I have no problem with "minding my own business" thing. If that had been the case, I'd feel much better. But the problem is, she want everybody's classroom style to be patterned to hers. And since we are in an Asian country, culturewise, it's a big deal on how you deal with adults.
     
  7. kimrandy1

    kimrandy1 Enthusiast

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    I came to the conclusion this school year that I AM one of those old grumpy teachers. But at least I can laugh about it!! Our media specialist and I started teaching the same year and are the same age, and we were sitting around complaining about some of the younger teachers in our school - how they dress, their "always right" attitude, their disdain for those of us who have to work around daycare issues and can't stay to plan after school (while they won't do before school, because they like to sleep until the last possible minute...). And then we started to laugh, because we just knew that we'd turned into one of "those" teachers. And both of us are only 35! But, for the record, the two of us are probably the most dynamic and flexible teachers in the school....we are always looking for new things to try (especially her - she has three certifications now- HS Spanish, Media and Guidance), and we love to work in teams with almost anyone else.

    It sounds to me that this teacher is uncomfortable with technology (doesn't like blogs or the internet, etc). We have a lot of older teachers in my school that are like her in that manner.

    Sorry, not much help, just another viewpoint!
    Kim
     
  8. wig

    wig Devotee

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    I think this is the key - "teach in traditional manner and the kids are not learning." You can teach with the newer methods and the kids may not be learning either. That is what needs to be examined - why the kids are not learning.

    It may be the method, but more likely it is the delivery of the method used. We had a teacher (retired two years ago) who taught Algebra in the old traditional manner and his past students will tell you today that he gave them such a firm foundation that they felt confident in all future math classes and some became math teachers because of his influence.

    I am an older teacher and I work hard to keep up with newer methods, so my style is a mixture of the old and the new. I am not about to throw out what I know works in favor of what others say is a better way. I am not opposed to them, but why not continue to use what works? The longer you teach the more you will see that methods tend to go in cycles. Do you know how often I have seen the phonics and whole language thing flip back and forth in 35+ years? All they do is change the terminology. :rolleyes:

    As far as being lazy? I have no doubt that there are some who may be. I have seen some pretty lazy young teachers, too. But keep in mind also, that they may have no clue how to implement newer methods or use the latest technology. Brendan and other dept chairs or team leaders: Have you ever sat down with them and walked them through things like how to use a blog or a wiki for communication? How to use the internet for lesson planning and classroom integration? Telling them to use them and not giving them the tools does not help either.

    On the other hand, for her to insist that everyone follow her method of teaching is wrong. No teacher should impose his/her teaching style on others.

    You got great advise so far - especially about looking for her strengths and sincerely ask for her advise in those areas. You don't necessarily have to use them, but she may give you some food for thought and eventually feel comfortable enough to ask you about some things you do.
     
  9. sundrop

    sundrop Cohort

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    As a teacher who really enjoys incorporating technology into my curriculum, I too get frustrated with the teachers who don't want to have anything to do with it. I agree that everyone has something to offer in their own way, but I would argue that using technology is important for everyone to do for the sake of the students. Computers, digital cameras, etc...should be used as another tool like a textbook, ruler, microscope, or pencil. After all, students are growing up in a world where this is going to be their way of life. How realistic is it to teach without these tools? Hope you can find a middle ground.
     
  10. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Why? If they're successful in their own classrooms, why does it matter? The kids are seeing the technology in your room-- why do they also need to see it in every single other class?

    Using technology JUST because it's there seems silly to me. If their kids are learning what they need to know, why do they need to change?
     
  11. bandnerdtx

    bandnerdtx Aficionado

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    The vast majority of universities and all of the major high school textbook publishers still teach that there are 8 parts of speech.

    Is this lady telling you that you can't explore with some different teaching methods?
     
  12. wig

    wig Devotee

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    I guess I AM old. What ARE the ten parts of speech? :blush:
     
  13. La Profesora

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    We had a wonderful old man in our BIO dept who couldn't use a computer, couldn't keep his grades outside of a traditional grade book (we're online), couldn't see memos because they were emailed (I read them to him each morning), and still used mimeographed worksheets from a LONGGGGGGG time ago. He was such a wonderful storyteller and supportive and positive old man, but his ways were not working. He retired at the end of the year because he couldn't keep up. He went to his ranch and is so happy with his cattle now. At a certain point, you can't teach an old dog new tricks....
     
  14. hescollin

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    She doesn't understand the computer and internet and is afraid. You need to have a computer instructor teach a class on blogs and how to use them in the classroom. Hands on hands sit up a blog. You need step by step written out instructions. It is hard to teach something when the students know more than you do. Then you need to get together and practice what you learned.

    Another class on digital cameras.
     
  15. bandnerdtx

    bandnerdtx Aficionado

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    :lol: I know! I read that original post and did a Scooby Doo... arrrr?

    I know that *a few* textbooks (not traditional ones) count the articles as separate, but I have no clue what the 10th one could be.
     
  16. wig

    wig Devotee

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    I agree 100%. I did not know how to use any of those things until someone showed me. Now I use them a lot. Teachers LIKE OUR STUDENTS need to be taught and sometimes it takes more than saying "Would you like me to show you?" It takes a team leader, dept. head or principal saying: "We ARE going to show you how to use them." That does not mean they will be necessarily be applied to their teaching later, but it is unfair to expect them to learn it on their own. I have no idea how to use an interactive board. I do not think that makes me a bad teacher. I don't have a great desire to learn how to use it, but suspect if we had an inservice on it, I would probably want to use it afterwards. Frankly I have not actively sought out how to use them. I guess that makes me lazy. :lol:
     
  17. Mamacita

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    Please tell us what the TEN parts of speech are; even in my college textbooks (copyright March 2007), there are only eight.

    I agree with you about the technology, but I think your key words are still "the kids are not learning." No matter what the teacher's age or philosophy, the kids must be learning, and if they are not, then something is wrong somewhere.

    We were all once young beginning teachers; perhaps one of the differences between then and now is that we did not expect or require the job to accommodate our lives; we assumed that if one took on a job, one accommodated one's life to the job. I still think so. Morning meeting? I was there. After-school meeting? I was there, too. Why? Because it was my job to be there. I made daycare arrangements that accommodated my job.

    Being experienced does not necessarily mean 'carved in stone;' quite often it means "already tried/did that, under a different name (sometimes four or five times, each with a different trendy name) and it just doesn't work. In education, companies and businesses often try to sell us their 'stuff' under all kinds of names, hoping the younger teachers will fall for it, whereas the older teachers recognize it for what it is: old failed stuff with a new name and a new marketing writer.

    Don't discount the old warhorses; the ones who disdain technology are well on their way out, but the rest of us just might know what we're doing. Listen; you might learn something.
     
  18. teachingmomof4

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    We have an "old" teacher on our team. She does things her way and won't budge. But, we have learned to deal with it and move on. She has her beliefs and the way things should be run and we do as well. It's okay to be different and to do things differently. I think someone hit in the head when they talked about the kids not learning. That's the key here. The kids need to be learning even if they are taught in a different way. One day, we'll be the "old" ones that the newbies are complaining about. It's a vicious cycle.
     
  19. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    The funny thing is, the original poster never mentioned whether or not the teacher was effective. There's no mention of whether or not the kids appear (to her, as an outsider to the class) to be learning.
     
  20. Weazy

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    AMEN!! I did the same thing. I was beginning to doubt myself!:confused: I have only taught eight parts of speech--where did the other two come from?
     
  21. sevenplus

    sevenplus Connoisseur

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    I don't see a problem with her style if she is effective and if she isn't in some sort of position above you and is insisting you do it "her way."

    Why do you say she "should" serve like a mentor? Not everyone is cut out for that.

    I don't see why you have an issue with her "inefficiency." There is nothing wrong with making up her own test items! I can see how her complaining about your tests would be frustrating, though.

    I understand the cultural issue you are dealing with, but I also think you just need to assert your professionalism. Listen politely to her "advice" and then do what you believe is best when you are in your classroom.
     
  22. moonbeamsinajar

    moonbeamsinajar Habitué

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    I am an "old teacher" too, but I keep up-to-date on new ideas, etc. for teaching preschoolers. I have seen trends in education come and go, and sometimes what was tossed out the window (for some "new and improved" teaching method), is later reinstituted. And there just might be some kiddos out there who would benefit from having a old traditional teacher, teaching in an "old, traditional" style. Some might actually thrive in that environment!
     
  23. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Look at the NY State math syllabus for a perfect example: (Those of you who know me, ignore this post. It's the same old rant.)

    For as long back as anyone know, NY followed the same math syllabus as the rest of the world: Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II/Trigonometry.

    Then, in the early 80's, we switched to Sequential Math.. a combo of algebra, geometry, trig, logic, probablility & statistics, a little of each during each year.

    Then, about 10 years ago, they realized that giving 3 Regents exams was expensive, so it became Math A/B-- same material, only now divided into 2 1 1/2 year courses.

    MANY MANY math teachers in NY know only this math syallabus.

    Well, after a 30ish year experiment, NY is bringing in "New Math" : Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II/Trig. Does this ring a bell with anyone??
     
  24. Emma35

    Emma35 Connoisseur

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    I was taught, as many others on this site, by the "old, traditional" style of teaching and I feel that I learned a lot. I feel that by those "traditional" methods I am a very smart person. Don't knock a traditional teacher because like others have said, there is that trend in education. A cycle where a method comes and goes but under a different name.

    I am also in charge of a lot of technology in my building and guess what, I don't use blogs at all and that is alright!!!!!
     
  25. wig

    wig Devotee

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    http://pah2.golding.id.au/2006/08/21/parts-of-speech/

    It took forever to find them so I guess there a re a lot of us who didn't know them. Most had 8. However, since they left off Interjections, does that mean there are 11 parts of speech?

    1. noun
    2. verb
    3. adjective
    4. adverb
    5. article
    6. pronoun
    7. preposition
    8. conjunction
    9. participle
    10. gerund
     
  26. Weazy

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    Noun, verb, adjective, adverb, pronoun, preposition, conjunction, and interjection are the eight parts of speech I teach. An article is a determiner; a gerund is a verbal noun formed by adding ing; and participles are also verb forms (past, present). Although there are many, many parts to our speech--I think most schools start with eight basic parts of speech. The eight needed for beginning sentence structure. It can be confusing.:unsure:
     
  27. wig

    wig Devotee

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    YUP! that's what I teach, too. The OP was kind of amazed that the traditional teacher did not know the TEN parts of speech. I teach middle school. Do they teach more than 8 parts in high school?
     
  28. apple25

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    I've decided that I hate the parts of speech! I typed "what are the parts of speech" into google, and came up with http://www.arts.uottawa.ca/writcent/hypergrammar/partsp.html.

    I like this website because it has the same ones that my poster set does :haha: If I have to sqeeze two more types . . . maybe even 3!! my students aren't going to be happy campers . . .

    But going beyond that, it is tough being on a team when members don't use the same teaching styles. Take each day at a time, come here when things get tricky . . . hopefully things will balance out as the school year gets rolling. Good luck!
     
  29. Weazy

    Weazy Comrade

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    Not at my high school!:;)
     
  30. Mamacita

    Mamacita Aficionado

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    Participles and gerunds, along with infinitives, are verbals, not distinct parts of speech.

    And gosh darn it, where were the $%^&*() interjections, dagnabit!
     
  31. wig

    wig Devotee

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    YEAH! You tell 'em, Mamacita! :lol:
     
  32. Weazy

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    Ditto to both Wig and Mamacita!
    BTW-How did become a grammar lesson? :Oh Yeah-the OP mentioned 10 parts of speech. :huh:

    I believe there are benefits to traditional and new methods of teaching. What works for one, may not work for another. As for expecting somebody else to teach exactly as the same way as I do- well--ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL!
     
  33. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    One of the wonderful things about teaching in a school where there are teachers with varying degrees of experience is that everyone is different! Just as our students are not the same, neither should we be. Some things work for some people but not for others; this doesn't make one better than another, just different. It is important that the students are learning, not necessarily how. If the students aren't learning, it is a matter for the administration, not for colleagues.
     
  34. Called2Teach

    Called2Teach Rookie

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    I guess I buy the idea that the most important thing is that students learn whether you teach in a traditional style or the modern style. However, the students would still lost something when it comes to the use of technology.

    BTW, the 2 addition in the 8 parts of speech are the articles and determiners. Articles has been included long time ago. Only recently was the determiner added.
     
  35. Weazy

    Weazy Comrade

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    BTW, the 2 addition in the 8 parts of speech are the articles and determiners. Articles has been included long time ago. Only recently was the determiner added.[/QUOTE]


    Somebody else correct me if I'm wrong, but articles ARE determiners; at least this is what all my textbooks show.
     
  36. Brendan

    Brendan Fanatic

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    The problem is these days is that if you are not using technology you are being ineffective. Math is a diffferent story (students should be able to use excel to create graphs and a graphing calculator by arund their junior year), but in English, Social Studies, and Science technolgy is the way to go and if we are not useing technology in our classrooms to prepare students for this then we are doing ur job to prepare them for a technology based future. Using technology also catters better to our students who are so immersed in it.
     
  37. emmyblemmy

    emmyblemmy Companion

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    I completely agree. Technology has been, is, and will continue to be a rapidly growing part of our society. I believe it is imperative to incorporate technology into the classroom. Yes, you can teach effectively without it, but we should also consider what kind of world we are living in now and what world the kids will be going out into later on. In every teaching evaluation that I have been evaluated on (from student teaching to my own classroom), technology is always a component of that evaluation. Schools and BOE's in many states regard use of technology as an important aspect in the classroom. We are always expected as teachers to never stop learning, to keep evolving with the changing times so that we may understand, and therefore teach, each student to the best of our ability. :)
     
  38. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    Not being a LA teacher I looked up The Parts of Speech
    it is from:
    http://www.arts.uottawa.ca/writcent/hypergrammar/partsp.html
    Now this is a Canadian University so maybe the great white north only uses 8
    "Traditional grammar classifies words based on eight parts of speech: the verb, the noun, the pronoun, the adjective, the adverb, the preposition, the conjunction, and the interjection."
    I did find a listing of
    Nouns
    Verbs
    Adjectives
    Adverbs
    Pronouns
    Prepositions
    Conjunctions
    Articles


    “There are 10 parts of speech, and they are all troublesome.”
    -Mark Twain

    This is driving me crazy. What are the other 2?
     
  39. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    I have to disagree, even I get frustrated over other teachers not using technology. But there is a big place for the basics. Many students I get have an educational back ground like Swiss Cheese! A teacher teaching the basics is actually helping the techno teachers.
     
  40. Brendan

    Brendan Fanatic

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    Teaching the basics is important, but we can't disregard technology! Anyways isn't technology a basic these days?
     
  41. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    Good Point Ryan
    it is becoming a basic BUT if a kid can't read,
    all they will do on a computer is play games
     
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