Oh, no you didn't!

Discussion in 'Secondary Education' started by Aliceacc, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Sep 19, 2012

    I gave my first geometry test of the year today.

    Imagine my surprise when the same young man who has missed 2 of my 3 quizzes somehow forgot to turn his in!!

    I would imagine his explanation tomorrow will be that I somehow lost it.

    Ummm, nope. I have lots and lots of faults, but I don't lose tests. Everyone else in your class put it into the blue folder on the podium, where it rested until I graded them and realized yours was missing.

    I went to the dean and to my department chair, in case either of them somehow gets involved.

    I'm going to play it as an honest mistake. (Though, seriously: you ahd ONE piece of paper on your desk. The bell rang, and you hadn't handed it in and it wasn't left behind... you do the math.) I'll let him take the makeup at his leisure. I'm guessing he'll hope it's somehow the same test; I don't even give 2 classes on the same day the same test, much less one kid on 2 separate days. Every single question on the makeup is different, though it's not a "killer" test.

    And if he can't get to it tomorrow, he can take it some other time. (The further he gets from the material, the less likely he is to actually remember it. So I would probably be kinder to push him. But I'll follow his lead here.) Progress grades go out in mid October.

    I even hung around for a while after school before my meeting, on the off chance that he would say he somehow found the test and wanted to beg forgiveness. Nope.

    But he's used up his good will in my class. And it's September 19th. This was the first time in over 2 years that I've had to go to the dean about a kid. I'm going to write it up and start to document today; the odds are that I may end up with a lot to write about my new buddy.
     
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  3. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Sep 19, 2012

    Oddly enough, a few students of mine are missing quizzes, and I have no idea how that's happening either. They either didn't turn them in, took them home with them, but I don't see any way in which I could have lost them, because they ALL stayed at school in the same box for grading.

    The only thing that would excuse it is if someone else maliciously went in there and took a quiz out.

    Good luck Alice!!
     
  4. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Wow, sounds like he's hit Strike Three in record time. There are ways that you could keep this from happening in the future (take the quizzes at the door at the end of the period as an exit ticket, check off names in your grade book as they're received), but it's ridiculous to alter what works year in and out for one student. He has to take personal responsibility for his assignments and assessments.
     
  5. MikeTeachesMath

    MikeTeachesMath Devotee

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    Sep 19, 2012

    Jeez.. I just don't understand some kids :(. It could have been an honest mistake, even with his current track record. I walked out of AP US with a quiz once, and didn't realize until that night. But of course I frantically emailed my teacher and she let me make it up.

    But I do feel like you'll be posting about this kid again.
     
  6. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Sep 19, 2012

    Yeah, this one isn't my responsibility, it's his.
    I'm not sure about the "honest mistake" thing-- that test paper was the only thing on his desk.

    I'll give a makeup-- I wrote one up this afternoon. And he can make up the test and the 2 quizzes whenever it's convenient.


    The folder was on the podium. I was 2 feet away with a seating chart, working on memorizing the names. I wasn't grading, I wasn't surfing the internet, I wasn't doing anything but look at those kids. No one took a paper from the folder.

    But as to the "good luck"?? I have a feeling that I won't be the one needing it. I've been at this for too long to even think that a 16 year old is going to win at this game.

    Have I mentioned that it's still September??
     
  7. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    I saw a quiz under some kid's papers the other day and went umm planning to turn that in?
     
  8. lucybelle

    lucybelle Connoisseur

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    Sep 19, 2012

    I read this thread title as "oh no you d-int!" *z-snap, neck wave*

    Anyways, good luck with this kid!:)
     
  9. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    Me too, Lucy!
     
  10. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    Haha, Alice I feel bad for this kid. Well not really. I'm being sarcastic. What I mean is that he's probably thinking he can play some silly blame-game or victim-game or innocent-game with you, but obviously he won't go far.
    If he's smart he'll learn his lesson very soon. If he resists it's just gonna be that much harder for him. :)
     
  11. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    Oh my Alice! I sure hope that he has some good apologies tomorrow.

    Is this student a new student to your school? Or can you get some information from his previous teachers? Might be a good idea to do a little investigating.
     
  12. Jeky

    Jeky Comrade

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    Sep 19, 2012

    Good for you for being on top of it right away, and for letting natural consequences take their place! I forget where, but I read one time something about students being "researchers" at the beginning of the year: That is to mean, they are conducting their own experiments every day to see whether the teacher's boundaries are really what they say they are. As one colleague put it, some students are "aggressive researchers"; they need to gather a lot of evidence before they are convinced ;)


    (I do have to say, I WISH my biggest problem with a student was them forgetting to turn in a test!)
     
  13. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Sep 19, 2012

    I think I come off as "nice" and my friend has mistaken that for "stupid."

    I taught his sister a few years ago, and we got along great. I'm sure she had great things to say about me, which he's probably misinterpreting as signs of weakness.

    As I said, he can take the makeup when he gets around to it. But he's used up a LOT of good will very early in the year.
     
  14. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    What will you do if he comes in with his test tomorrow and claims he accidentally walked out with it?
     
  15. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    Do you think you could turn this around by having a serious chat with him? I've had rough start kids who pull insane stuff come around almost overnight once they realize I really am on their side.
     
  16. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    How disappointing.:( here's hoping he learns a lesson from this.
     
  17. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician Groupie

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    I enter any and all missing assignments (including tests) as 0s in the online gradebook right away. That usually motivates them to come see me.

    When kids start that way, I always wonder how they'll finish...
     
  18. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Sep 20, 2012

    To be honest, it doesn't matter whether or not it was somehow an honest mistake, though the logistics confuse me if it was.

    And it it had been a mistake, he has my email address; I would think he would have gotten in touch with me when he discovered the error. He hasn't as of yet.

    But perhaps he did somehow shove the paper into his Bio binder, and simply hasn't opened that binder up yet. I suppose it could happen.

    He's taking a makeup, the same makeup I would give to anyone who had been absent. (No one was.) If it was a scam, I suspect he'll be thinking that the matching column will be the same questions. It isn't. The beginning of geometry is chock full of definitions; it wasn't hard to come up with 20 different terms.

    The differnence is in my perception of his motives. If he somehow makes the same mistake again, I'll be on it immediately.

    They'll be getting their tests back today. Since I don't do scantrons, I told them I wasn't sure whether I could get through all 5 sets of tests today or whether they would have to wait for Friday. My meeting yesterday afternoon ran short, so I got to everything.

    He's usually in my morning cafeteria; I'll ask him what happened. And I'll let him know that he owes me a makeup for the test and for the 2 quizzes he's missed. I'll ask him when he's planning to stay after for those 3 makeups. And that will be the end of it.

    Except that I'll be less likely to be tolerant of other similar "mistakes" in the future.

    Realizing that I'm not out to kill him, but that I'm aware that the error was HIS, may very well turn things around. We'll see.
     
  19. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Sep 20, 2012

    I had a couple of algebra students "forget" to turn in the mid-chapter quiz we took. I gave them two extra days to turn it in before posting grades for the mid-term progress reports. None of them took advantage, so I entered the assignments as "missing", which gave them a zero.

    Yesterday, another student who doesn't turn in homework started looking through one of my cabinets. I told him that was off limits and he was NOT allowed to rummage through there. He claimed heat his notebook with the homework in one of the cabinets the day before. Umm....NO, you didn't, because I would have gotten onto him then about looking in my cabinets. :rolleyes:
     
  20. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    Alice---how was the conversation with the student?

    I sure hope he is planning on coming to make up his test and quizzes this afternoon.
     
  21. Brendan

    Brendan Fanatic

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    Wow. I'm surprised this has happened to me in 20+ I've taught. How'd it go today, Alice?
     
  22. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    As I handed back the papers (as the kids were filing in and chatting) I mentioned that we needed to talk. He asked why. I stated that I had no test for him; he hadn't turned it in.

    He seemed mildly bewildered, and stated that he had handed it in, but did I want him to look for his stuff for it? I responded that it wouldn't be necessary, since the test was given 24 hours prior. And that he would have to take a makeup at his convenience, along with making up the 2 quizzes he owes me. I told him that I have a makeup ready to go, but that he would have to remember to show up one day to take it. He agreed and I started class.

    We'll see how it plays out.
     
  23. HistTchr

    HistTchr Habitué

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    Sep 20, 2012

    My teacher friends are always amused with how vigilant I am in monitoring that my tests come back! I number each one, and pass them out to students in numerical order. On a sheet of paper, I make a list with all of the numbers for my own record keeping. As each test is returned to me, I cross off that number so I know it's back. I can always easily see who still has a test out by just counting off the students according to where they're sitting. I don't know why I am so obsessive with doing it this way, but it's just what I have almost always done and it works for me!
     
  24. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    I had something similar happen this week. I didnt have grades for TWO students in one class. I had one quiz without a name. The next day one of those students was absent and I always wait until both are present to see who claims which graded assignment. I told the one who it did not belong to, to look in his binder for a missing quiz. Sure enough, it was there. He wanted me to grade itmmediately - was very adamant. I did not stop class to do it and he was a bit upset. That afternoon I graded it and he had a 100. His previous grades were all Ds and Fs. Hmmmm. So the next day I handed him and another student my makeup version of the quiz. He complained for a while about taking another one, a different one. He did not score nearly as well that time @@
     
  25. Jeky

    Jeky Comrade

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    When my students take a test, I monitor them constantly by walking around the room as they work. As they finish, they bring it to the front, place it face down in a colored tray, and pick up their homework for that night, which is in a pile next to the tray. They may work on their homework silently until everyone is done with the test. I am always very aware of how many students still need to finish. If there are any at the end of class who are still working, I collect their papers individually and they finish at lunch or before school the next day.

    *Also, when the bell rings, I dismiss them one at a time by calling their names off the test. This immediately identifies anyone who a) didn't turn it in, or b) didn't put their name on their paper.
     
  26. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician Groupie

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    I could see this for 6th grade, but it shouldn't be necessary at the HS level.
     
  27. Jeky

    Jeky Comrade

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    Maybe not, but sometimes being proactive can make your life much easier in the long run, no matter what grade level you teach. :)
     
  28. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Thanks for your input, folks. I'm fairly confident in both my classroom management and my proctoring of tests. I teach high school sophomores. These kids will be getting learners permits for their driver's licence within the next year. They're old enough to take a little responsibility.

    Part of taking the test is handing it in. My kids are old enough to have learned that lesson. If they haven't already, then the buck stops here. I refuse to treat them like 5 year olds.

    The incident has been resolved to my satisfaction.
     
  29. Jeky

    Jeky Comrade

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    Just for the record Alice, I wasn't posting my own procedure as direct advice/input to you. I was merely sharing what I do in my own classroom because I thought someone else (maybe someone who runs into this problem a lot) might be able to use it -- regardless of what grade they teach.

    Others were sharing their own experience with this topic so I thought I would add my own. Sorry about that.
     
  30. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Sep 22, 2012

    No apology necessary.
     
  31. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    Alice---did he come in and take the test?
     
  32. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Not yet.
     
  33. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    How long do you usually wait on the student's personal accountability before you call home to mention the missing assessments? This is always something where I have a difficult time making a judgement call.
     
  34. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    As a parent, I would appreciate an update soon. Even though most schools have great online grades system, the teachers don't always update them. Some teachers are on top of it, and other barely bother. In the meanwhile the problem continues and by the time I find out it's been too long, and it's harder to recover from it.

    If you have the time to deal with it and notify parents of missing assignments, I CANNOT imagine anyone being upset that you are bothering them. It will look more that you care, you're organized and you're doing more than what's expected.
     
  35. Mamacita

    Mamacita Aficionado

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    Will it help at all if I BEG ON BENDED KNEE that all of you come down super-hard on students who "forget" to turn in work? I am still getting these excuses and rationalizations at the college level, and it's pretty obvious that most of these slackers have had plenty of practice with their excuses. If I had a nickel for every student who is absolutely amazed that we don't accept late work at this level, I'd have, well, a big stack of nickels. Which turn into quarters. Which become dollars. Which can be exchanged for bottles of Diet Coke in the machine on the ground floor. On the rare days when the machines work. (I left out "dimes" in the equation, as our machines don't take dimes.) (Dimes are, however, quite nice, and I have nothing whatsoever against them.)
     
  36. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    To be honest, it's only been 2 class days. I told him there was no real rush, as long as he got the makeups in before progress grades go in in mid October. He's a football player, and I think he wants to clear the date with the coach.

    Of course, it would be wise to take the test and quizzes while the material was still fresh in his mind. But the choice is his.

    Before I go to mom, I think I'll chat with both his guidance counselor and his coach. It's entirely possible that this may be part of a bigger pattern from last year. Or that he simply misjudged me and will turn things around now.
     
  37. Poodle15

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    I have to say, just yesterday a girl in my education class was arguing with our teacher because she never got her article approved for a long term presentation/paper/project. The approval was due Sept 10th. She still doesn't even have an article!!! Yesterday we got to pick a date to present in the order in which we had our articles approved. She tried arguing with him that that wasn't really an assignment. Hah! He said, "I'm the teacher, that's for me to decide and it was an assignment." He's considering not letting her do it at all. 75pts for her, down the drain. :whistle: This girl (young 20s, not sure) has been a TA, daycare worker and has other teaching experience yet still acts like a child in the two classes we share, both pertaining to education. In Foundations for Math for Elementary Teachers, she forgot the worksheet we had two weeks to complete. We only just had a test (5 weeks into the semester now) and complained to me that she didn't understand it. I guess if you did the homework, you'd understand it!

    Her inability to hand things in on time astounds me. Our education teacher says, "If you assign homework, won't you expect your students to hand it in when you say it's due? It's like banging your head against a wall when your students don't listen. You have a syllabus, can you not read it?!" :banghead: She claims that because she wants to work in preschool it doesn't matter to her.

    Vicariously, I feel your pain.
     
  38. Poodle15

    Poodle15 Companion

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    Sep 22, 2012

    Personally, I think that as long as he's not testing you, flexibility is kind. On the other hand, perhaps a meeting with his coach will straighten things out! If he loves playing football, and his coach backs you, I bet there will be a change!
     
  39. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    There are no words....
     
  40. Mamacita

    Mamacita Aficionado

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    I really believe that people who demand and expect exceptions for their own inability to organize and keep priorities straight are one of the main reasons our culture is circling the drain.

    I had a student who skipped the first 2 1/2 weeks of class this semester. I turned her in to the registrar for non-attendance. She pranced into the room, furious, and said, and I quote, "What be you da nerve to turn me in ack dat !!!!!!" The whole class started laughing, and she became furious. I said, "I've never seen you before. Class started 3 weeks ago." Her reply?

    "I had me sh**-n-tuff on my mind!"

    Later that day her advisor asked me for a list of everything this student had missed. I refused.

    Welcome to my world.
     
  41. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    Alice---good idea with running it by the guidance counselor and the coach. Hopefully it turns out to be a misunderstanding.
     

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