Newspapers publishing "teacher rankings"

Discussion in 'General Education' started by microbe, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. microbe

    microbe Comrade

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    Nov 11, 2013

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  3. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    Anyone who pays my salary deserves to know my performance. If I want private records I should teach at a private school. We go nuts about transparency in government and then freak out when people demand the same of us. We are the government.
     
  4. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

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    I guess this is a hijack, but...

    Are you talking China or the U.S.?

    I know there are states struggling with teacher unions, salaries, accountability, etc., but I would challenge this assumption, in general.
     
  5. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    The problem with lists is someone is always best, and someone is always worst. And even if "worst" is still ok, there is still someone on the bottom.

    If that person is a truly ineffective teacher, then the knee-jerk reaction is "she deserves it". But if she is not, the data is essentially ruining someone's career...for what?
     
  6. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    :thumb:
     
  7. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Are lists ranking the performance other public employees (firefighters, police officers, DFS/CPS workers, etc.) also published?
     
  8. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    This serves no purpose other than public shaming, and I can't support that. Didn't it turn out when they did this in New York City that the "worst teacher" had such bad rankings because her students had all only been in the country for a matter of weeks?
     
  9. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    See the link I posted above. Sad story.
     
  10. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    I can't believe they're continuing to do it, even after the suicide of one of the teachers.

    Why are teachers the only ones who get this kind of treatment? The extremely ignorant comments on the blog post are even more appalling. It seems a majority of the public thinks that this is okay, necessary, and the fault of teachers.
     
  11. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    When NY named their worst teacher, it turned out she was an ESL teacher, and over the last five years she has had small, self-contained classes of recently arrived immigrants who do not speak English. Her students arrive at different times of the school year, depending upon that date of their family’s migration; consequently, it is not unusual for her students to take the 6th grade exams when they have only been in her class for a matter of a few months.

    This teacher's supervisor says she's an excellent teacher.

    If teacher rankings are published, they punish teachers like this. Of course her students score low. As soon as they improve, they are transferred out of her class.

    No one has ever produced any examples of teacher rankings improving the profession or making teachers more effective.
     
  12. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    Here's the irony for me. As much as I loved where I worked, the non-profit agency I work for now has shown me just how much more collaborative and supportive groups can be. All this competition doesn't help anyone. Sure, we should be accountable. Pitted against each other, not so much. There are so many things that go into what makes a good teacher. How do you even fairly account for all the factors?
     
  13. dave1mo

    dave1mo Comrade

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    And, of course, the refusal of teachers and our unions to accept any type of accountability measure has caused the pendulum to swing too far in the other direction. Is this right? No. Do we, as a profession, have a hand in its genesis and progression?

    Absolutely.
     
  14. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    The accountability method that pits teachers against each other does not make any sense to me. We have a new teacher on our team and all of us are trying to help her become the best she can be. If we were in a district that ranks teachers, it would be a disincentive to share effective strategies with each other.

    This ranking technique discourages innovation.
     
  15. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    ..and collaboration! I teach sped and most of my kids will never pass the tests. Does that make me a poor teacher?
     
  16. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

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    If my students show enough growth, it's my responsibility to recommend them for a different placement. Would I really do that if my entire worth was based on a test? Wouldn't I want to keep them as long as possible so that I rather than a gen ed teacher would benefit from their scores?
     
  17. dave1mo

    dave1mo Comrade

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    Because morals and professional achievement are mutually exclusive...
     
  18. iteachbx

    iteachbx Enthusiast

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    Exactly.
     
  19. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Most people would probably prefer finding a way to justify keeping a student in their class rather than... say... end up like that teacher in NYC?
     
  20. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    And before you start in on the "teachers never want to agree to evaluations!" this is an entirely different situation. This isn't a simple matter of test scores. This is providing teachers with active incentives to sabotage their colleagues, and active disincentive towards collaboration.
     
  21. KinderCowgirl

    KinderCowgirl Phenom

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    What bothers me is that it's the equivalent to a job evaluation-even in the public sector that was still considered something to be kept confidential.

    I think it's impossible to "rank" teachers based on one statistical analysis. I know here with our merit pay, they published it as look up your child's teacher and see if they are one of the good ones. Many of us weren't eligible because we taught non-evaas grades-that put us all on the list of ineffective ones. I think there are many factors that contribute to someone being the "best" or the "worst" that the public just isn't even aware of.
     
  22. Loveslabs

    Loveslabs Companion

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    I am curious...What type of school system do you work for? What grade/subject do you teach? Do you have students that have IEPs or are ELL? Are the parents in your system supportive of education? Does your community pass/ support school levies? Is your system operating at state minimums because of funding? Thank you for sharing.:)
     
  23. dave1mo

    dave1mo Comrade

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    What does any of that have to do with the refusal of teachers to accept that professionals are held accountable for results?
     
  24. Loveslabs

    Loveslabs Companion

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    Nothing. I am just curious about you. I have read many of your posts and am curious as to where you are coming from in the education field. I thought knowing a little more about you would help me understand your points of view better. Sorry I asked.
     
  25. dave1mo

    dave1mo Comrade

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    You mean, you wanted to lob an ad hominem attack.

    I've posted plenty about the content area and demographics in which I teach.
     
  26. Loveslabs

    Loveslabs Companion

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    Again, no harm intended. I honestly feel knowing about someone's background is beneficial in understanding their point of view. I was not looking to attack. Personally, I have seen some of these threads get nasty, and it makes me sad. I feel one benefit of this site is potential to learn from each other. I won't question you again since it seems to cause problems.
     
  27. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

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    I have high morales, but I'm not in a position to set myself up to lose my job. Are you seriously suggesting that teachers should or would shuffle high performing kids out of their domain, collaborate with teachers they're competing against, and not teach to the test if their livelihood depended on it? You have mentioned how great capitalism and private industry is. When do things like this happen in that world?
     
  28. dave1mo

    dave1mo Comrade

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    If you'd been able to explain how it's relevant to the topic at hand, there would have been no possibility for a "problem."
     
  29. HistoryVA

    HistoryVA Devotee

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    Wow. That poster has been here less than 2 months and was asking relevant questions to try to understand you and you jump right to attack mode?

    Try not to be so paranoid if you really want an open discussion. You just shut down a new person who will most likely now go out of her way to avoid engaging with you in the future. So much for an open discourse.
     
  30. dave1mo

    dave1mo Comrade

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    How, exactly, are those questions relevant? Look at the questions being asked; it was clearly an implication that I'm not a teacher because I disagree with the "party line" espoused here and elsewhere.
     
  31. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    This thread has been talking about teachers who's evaluation DOES depend on a single test, and it's talking about teachers who WERE unfairly harassed based on "putting the needs of students above their own." In fact, they were specifically harmed BECAUSE of their school's (high) annual grade. Your situation is very different from the one being discussed here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  32. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

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    You didn't answer my question and you twist words. You seem to enjoy arguing with people (a troll by definition) and I do not.

    I will not be responding to you again.
     
  33. dave1mo

    dave1mo Comrade

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    I'm sorry, but their district evaluation is NOT based on a single test.
     
  34. microbe

    microbe Comrade

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    I specifically mean how people perceive teachers in the United States. I frequently hear people lament how overpaid and incompetent teachers are, and I frequently read about it on US news websites.

    It's rather alarming because in other countries (China included) teachers are highly respected.

    This is less about accountability and more about using an inadequate measuring system to shame teachers. And assuming that the system wasn't flawed, is it really acceptable to publicly shame people in this way?
     
  35. RadiantBerg

    RadiantBerg Cohort

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    And, in fact, the gen ed teacher would likely NOT benefit from the score if that student did move. The students that have moved into my room from resources room are my lowest students.
     

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