New Research Says Older Kids Do Better... Like FOREVER!

Discussion in 'General Education' started by AlwaysAttend, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    623
  2.  
  3. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,120
    Likes Received:
    1,718

    Aug 22, 2017

    100% believe it. I've noticed it in my own classrooms. The youngest children seem to be most likely to struggle with academics or to be labeled "behind" when compared to their peers.
     
  4. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    623

    Aug 22, 2017

    I would have expected the gap to close as part of the normal development process. I also found it valuable that it was consistent in different socioeconomic groups.
     
  5. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    1,336

    Aug 22, 2017

    Well, it hasn't been true for me.

    I skipped kindergarten and went to first grade at five. I was always at the top of my elementary class. I was the only one in my grade (at my school) who scored into the gifted program on overall general intelligence. I had no issues as at college at 17.

    As a teacher, I've seen some kids who could have benefitted from a later start of school, but not always.
     
  6. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,120
    Likes Received:
    1,718

    Aug 22, 2017

    I'm not sure, but I think it's also likely that starting K early means that students had one less year of preschool. A few families I know of that have a child right on the border (born in August or September) choose to have their students go in earlier rather than later because kindergarten is free while they have to pay a lot of money for preschool or daycare. So it's possible that these students are also less likely to have attended prechool or PreK.
     
  7. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4,293
    Likes Received:
    868

    Aug 22, 2017

    I saw this big-time with third graders, largely in regards to overall maturity. I haven't noticed it at all with fifth graders, but that's obviously just anecdotal.
     
    AlwaysAttend likes this.
  8. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    623

    Aug 22, 2017

    Wouldn't you agree that giftedness would have to be judged in its own grouping just as socioeconomic groups were? You would need to be compared to a an older g&t child in a similar demographic grouping, not the random classmates you had based on the neighborhood you lived in.
     
  9. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    623

    Aug 22, 2017

    Additionally, keep in mind our own experiences with students don't tell the full story. For example, studies have shown that Teachers recommend kids for g&t who just do their work well, get good grades, and follow instructions. While these are great attributes, they aren't always tied to giftedness. On the otherhand, trully gifted students are sometimes ignored (not literally, I mean for identification purposes), because they act out, don't do work, etc.
     
  10. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    623

    Aug 22, 2017

    BTW, I just had PRK surgery (older/safer version of Lasik but has longer recovery time) and my vision is still blurry. If I make an error it can be blamed on that.
     
  11. viola_x_wittrockiana

    viola_x_wittrockiana Comrade

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2016
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    183

    Aug 22, 2017

    It's important to note that the gap was small and may or may not hold water with a larger sample size, different subsets, and different PK set-ups.
    Anecdotally for me, any difference is minor. With a very late fall b-day, I was in the older half and didn't do any better than my siblings with May and late June b-days for any developmental reason. My friend group had a full 2-year range because of one friend starting school in a different state with an earlier cut-off and another friend coming from India where the system is different. Both of them were honors students. This may be something that holds true only for large groups or only the middle or lower 75% of the bell curve.

    Any thoughts about the suggestion to group classes by age? On one hand it seems like a good idea to place developmentally similar students together and an ok way to demographically divide students, but when would the gap close? Would parents with students on the edge get to pick? Would there be a set cut-off date or would it change every year based on the kids? Either way, it doesn't help kids who go to small schools that only have one K class.
     
  12. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    623

    Aug 22, 2017

    I've never been a fan of grouping kids by anything other than ability but it will never fly in our education system.
     
  13. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    623

    Aug 22, 2017

    The point wasn't the size of the gap, but with the consistency the gap presented.
     
  14. DAH

    DAH Companion

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    66

    Aug 22, 2017

    [QUOTE="otterpop,. I know of that have a child right on the border (born in August or September) .[/QUOTE]

    Had a friend whose son was on the border; He was born in December. Started Kindergarten in September at 4:9 months. The teacher CONSTANTLY complained about immaturity issues. It was really interesting. Mom wanted him in school even though they advised her against it, but at the end of the school year, sure enough, they made him repeat kindergarten. (This was back in the 1990s).

    It depends on how mature/immature the child is. He was an only child, that may have had something to do with it. No older siblings to make him grow-up faster. Possibly a youngest child with 3/4 older siblings, would not be as immature.
     
  15. DAH

    DAH Companion

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    66

    Aug 22, 2017

    [QUOTE="AlwaysAttend, . Thoughts? [/QUOTE]

    Older kids in a family tend to be in leadership positions when they grow-up, and that shouldn't be surprising. Almost FIFTY PERCENT of all US Presidents were FIRST BORN, or FIRST BORN SONS.
     
  16. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,120
    Likes Received:
    1,718

    Aug 22, 2017

    As in, you'd like to get away with grades (1st, 2nd, etc) and just group based on the academic level?

    I think that, if everyone was on board, it would be a good system as well. You'd have to get rid of the stigma of where you were supposed to be though. If you had a bunch of five year olds in a classroom with a ten year old and an eight year old thrown in, that could be an issue. But if that same class had kids that truly ranged from 5-11 I think it would work fine, as long as it was a big mix and not just a few kids standing out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  17. viola_x_wittrockiana

    viola_x_wittrockiana Comrade

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2016
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    183

    Aug 23, 2017

    I don't dispute the findings, I just think that parents and we sometimes make a bigger deal out of minor performance differences than is necessary or appropriate. To me, these findings have little weight in determining the performance of an individual child compared to pre-k readiness assessments and parental observations. If I were a parent of a 5YO, the < 3% difference in likeliness that my child would attend college wouldn't be enough to concern me. I'm also curious to know if this is a national effect, if there are differences regionally, and how different pre-k programs affect the data. On the whole, it's the beginning of a longer string of questions than an end product.
     
  18. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    623

    Aug 23, 2017

    Agreed.
     
  19. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    623

    Aug 23, 2017

    Yes, but you'd need more of a district situation than a single school because you'd have to separate the 10 and 5 year olds on similar academic levels because obviously other developmental stages would not be delayed.
     
  20. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    623

    Aug 23, 2017

    Older kids in a family tend to be in leadership positions when they grow-up, and that shouldn't be surprising. Almost FIFTY PERCENT of all US Presidents were FIRST BORN, or FIRST BORN SONS. [/QUOTE]

    Most Presidents come from well to do Patriarch based family/societal systems which champion the namesake.

    I've seen more first born kids who are overcoddled failures than I've seen natural born leaders by birthright. Of course that's annecdotal.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. mortezahosseini,
  2. waterfall
Total: 463 (members: 2, guests: 438, robots: 23)
test