NCLB--Do you hate it, deal with it, or doesn't affect me?

Apricot nectar...

Have you tried a Middle Eastern store? Seems to me there's at least one company that makes a fairly wide range of fruit nectars, including apricot, in one-liter aseptic packaging. (Aiello is one company, I think, and there are various companies from Germany, Turkey, Armenia, and perhaps a former Soviet "republic" or two.)

 

nah...it is made in Calif.
thanks anyway...

maybe when my friends go home to visit, I'll have them bring me back a case!

oh...back to the thread...I got my assignment for research class..

guess what I will pick
guess what I will pick

 

I didn't mean Kern's in the Middle Eastern store, actually (though I think one in my neighborhood does carry Kern's...) - I meant that the store is sure to carry fruit nectars from abroad, and you might get a reasonable deal to tide you over till the next friend visits and schleps stuff back for you.

Oh, and you might try looking not on the fruit-juice aisle of your supermarket but among the Mexican foods.

 

I just found out that my district is on the "needs improvement" list for not making AYP (along with about 200 other districts in our state). The things is, our schools actually did very well. Our sub groups (IEP and free/reduced lunch) did not meet AYP, so now our whole district is labeled "needs improvement." Now parents are getting a letter informing them of our standing. It sounds like the district is failing, but it's not.

There's an article in our local paper about the situation in a neighboring school district that is in the same situation. Their super intendent talks a little about the effects of NCLB. It basically says the state's standards are unreasonably high. I'll try and remember to post it when I get home from work.

 

Can someone please remind me what AYP means? All these letters are turning into an alphabet soup in my brain.

 

"Adequate Yearly Progress" - scores hitting certain marks, or going up by certain percentages.

 

I can't find the article anymore.

 

looking over assignments for research class. got an article supposed to be reading...just skimmed it.. I know, I know...need to read whole thing

here's more fuel to fire...

Is it true that many schools tie in increase of salaries based on improvement in testing scores?

This article also states, the teachers have become embattled with the non-grade level faculty.. p.e., music, and art teachers. They are resentful that these teachers get the increase as well, but don't have to do any extra work! Tregular grade level teachers have to sweat like pigs, and work like dogs...and make sure they keep their ducks in a row! Gym teachers, uh...just teach gym. Well, during the test, they don't even do that! (what do they do during that week?? )

has anyone else seen this madness?? p.e. teacher and 7th grade teacher cursing each other out in hall! why can't you help us!? You're get paid extra! and all you do all day is run around the gym!

 

If I wanted to privatize the schools, I think I'd try to create divisions between teachers and get them resenting each other rather than working together for student success.

 

yep, that's what I was gonna say.

first point on my paper TG!

 

Master Pre-K,

That's sort of the way it is here in my district. They started incentive pay this year based on test scores.

If you taught Grades 1-5 and your kids' individual scores (compared with the year before, by the way on a test designed to identify G/T students) on average made the yearly progress required you got a certain amount.

If your school made progress overall then all teachers including ancillary teachers and Kinder and Pre-K got a certain amount. We are never going to be able to get incentive pay for our performance in Kinder because there are no test scores to compare our test scores to. Although now they are talking about doing a Pre-K assessment statewide so maybe that will change. No one got mad at me specifically because we were on the list for receiving a bonus but didn't actually show growth of our kids (it's just not measurable they way they have designed the system), but I tutor for the grades taking the Big Test afterschool and on Saturdays, so I feel like I at least tried to contribute to the school-wide growth.

There were teachers outraged that the P.E. teacher who basically has the kids running laps and sits in a chair all day got money when an incredible 5th Grade teacher didn't. The local newspaper actually had a link on its website where you could look up your child's teacher's bonus (and everyone at the school could see what everyone else made). This was the first year they did it, so maybe they learned from their mistakes but there were some teachers and even schools who were not rewarded where they should have been and yes, for several weeks it was all any of the teachers were talking about when they should have been teaching.

That may have been my longest post ever!

 

Wow...that is amazing...


Thanks KinderCowgirl. This assignment is getting more interesting with your input. Your salaries are actually posted online!

... You also mentioned pre-k testing...

Although now they are talking about doing a Pre-K assessment statewide so maybe that will change.


Now, my big pet peeve in pre-k testing with Head Start is the NRS (national reporting system) assessment. It is a poorly designed test that tries to determine if Head Start is successful. However, it has many flaws based on these facts:

1. It does not share it's results with the teachers or parents. Scores are not graded individually, yet the tests are scored invidivdually. Organizations can get info on overall performance of their students, but that is it. Parents never get the results! Teachers are unable to review them, so they can't improve nor determine how well the children are doing.

2. It is not an authenic assessment. Children are given an adapted Peabody Picture Vocabulary test, and these characters are for the most part dominated by images of whites and very few minorities. It does not take into account cultural or regional differences (pictures of snow in a black-and-white scene) and (terminology that is not normal used in all areas.)

3. The testing situation is biased. An unfamiliar person..(yours truly) sits with the child in a one-on-one setting, and gives the assessment in a manner that does not follow the child's daily routine. Unlike pre-k assessments, where a child has no reference or knowledge of what to expect, this test is given in the child's classroom. Therefore, it is distracting to the child, and it is an unusual format from what they are accustomed to.

4. The test items are far beyond the reach of the average 5 year old, IMO. Only children entering kdg in the fall are tested. Test is given twice.

Examples:

four different pictures of body parts are shown. One quandrant shows a nose (yes..a nose of a white person) and an arrow pointing towards the nostril. The other three have different body parts.

The question states: "Point to nostril."

Who says nostril to a 5 year old??? hmy:

four scenes are shown. A snowball hitting a drum major's hat, and he is startled. A young woman wearing a hat and scarf, smiling, a man (who looks a lot like Abraham Lincoln) eating a feast, and a girl leaning against a tree.

The question states: "Point to surprised."

Now first of all, these pictures are black ink on white board, so there is no color. If you live in region where you don't see much snow, you will not recognize a snowball if the picture does not have color.

All of my kids picked Lincoln, (yes beard and all) eating. In their minds, "surprised" equals a party...and so he must be eating at his surprise birthday party. Some actually told me this.

Nobody picked the guy who was hit by the snowball.

Testing in pre-k...

sigh!

 

Here's a contribution to your paper, Pre-K:

http://www.learner.org/resources/series186.html#

 

They post your bonuses online?!? Yikes! What kind of confidentiality is that violating? I thought all that financial stuff was personal. It should be. We are not supposed to discuss salary amongts our collegues, yet outsiders are given this kind of information? I'm even less thrilled with this than the idea of parents having access to my gradebook (however limited) online.

 

I work for a public school -it's a matter of public record. But the local newspaper took it to the next level and designed a link where you could type in any teacher's name and see what they got. They also stated that the "great" teachers got money and if the teacher didn't get money then they must be a bad teacher. That's the part that bothered me.

Master Pre-K,

"Nostril" is a pretty ridiculous word for a 4-year old to know. I have administered the 4-year old test to identify G/T students and that sounds like something that would be on that test. I teach in Texas and also take issue with questions with snow in them. Most kids here have never seen it except maybe on TV.

 

oh yeah...it gets worse...

The math section of the NRS looks like one of our certification exams! There is a bar graph question. Again...this is for 5 year olds.

The picture shows a rabbit, a dog and a cat. The picture is in color. The rabbit has 1 rectangluar bar above it. The dog has 2 bars. The cat has three. The question reads: "This bar graph shows the number of pets the children on Park Street have. (Examiner points and says) Rabbits, Dogs, Cats. How many have cats?"

Eight out of ten kids say, "I gotta a cat!"

One says, "Granny(auntie/my friend) has a cat!"

One just point to the cat.

Nobody says the correct answer.

I have taught lessons on graphing in my preschool classes, but language and graphics on these tests are very decieving. it would have made more sense to show three cats instead of rectangles! Oh, wait...that would have been a pictograph... :woot:

still, testing without prior interaction with a preschooler is not developmentally appropriate

 

I never realized a bar graph showed multiple bars to show number of an item or group. I thought the bars were always just single bars of different lengths. I would have taken up issue with that as well. Sounds like the tests confuses concepts.

 

exactly!! the vertical or horizontal bars showed the level and you had to determine which was more, less or the same.

well, I will try my best to keep this thread going. first day of work! (I love it!) Second week of class. Did I mention I have a weekend job???

 

thanks TG!

 

All part of the service, Pre-K...

 

I'm not sure how related to NCLB this is, but I heard another 5th grade teacher say today that in order to teach one year's worth of the GLEs (Grade Level Expectations) as they are in the state of MO would actually take 3 years. In other words, we are cramming 3 years worth of knowledge into 1 year.

I have a feeling if there wasn't so much pressure to "perform" for the state tests, we would be able to teach our kids much more effectively.

As it is, right now I am trying to balance the state GLEs with a curriculum that doesn't quite line up and text books that don't hit all the GLEs either. Umm...if teaching the GLEs will prepare out students for the test, why are we using books that don't cover the GLEs?? I kind of feel like a dog chasing my tail. I keep running in circles, but I'm not accomplishing anything.

 

I think Master Pre-K has mentioned the work of W. James Popham. He notes (in Test Better, Teach Better: The Instructional Role of Assessment, 2003, ISBN 0-87120-667-6) that state standards often specify a wide range of things that it would be nice for students to know - but there simply isn't time to cover all of them in depth. I think that's what your friend the fifth grade teacher was talking about. That being the case, Popham recommends setting priorities: deciding which standards are highest priority, and teaching those standards in sufficient depth to produce a reasonable level of competence. It would be best, of course, if the state standard-makers could be induced to indicate which standards are highest priority, but if they don't, then it makes sense for the teacher to do so.

 

:wow: TG...you are so right...EDUG 512 Assessment of Learning!

You know, this is the only place I have ever seen that actually discusses topics from my college textbooks!

Many of us (yours truly included) rush to the bookstore during book buyback week for a few measley dollars! Not only does TG knows authors, she probably has an awesome library!

 

Some people have nice furniture and artwork on the walls. I have starving-student furniture and bookshelves.

In case anyone else is looking for an accessibly written rundown of tests and testing, the Popham I cite above is a fine choice.

 

oh TG, I meant literally...your collection of books...certainly not assuming anything about your home my friend! I am partial to milk crates myself!

which leads me to my Ph.D. candidate hermano...

pretty much analyzed my please-help-assemble-my-TV-cart- project. His conclusion...Go to Ikea and buy something more expensive.

problem...I don't have means to drag home or assemble something that I can't afford from Ikea.

I can drag home something I can afford from Target!

Which takes us back to mandated testing. Why would you assume I can afford something more expensive, when I have given you something less expensive??

Why would you assume all students can pass a standard test? There is no standard student.

 

No, no, wait: I didn't mean to sound offended, I meant that geeky TeacherGroupie doesn't have unoccupied wall space for art to be on, for all the bookshelves.

Stuff from IKEA isn't actually that much more expensive, and it isn't significantly harder to drag home, and it's generally a whole lot better engineered, so therefore easier to assemble properly.

Some of us tutor and eat at IKEA...

(ducking, looking apprehensive) Were you aiming that loaded question at me personally, ma'am??

What the heck: let me take it personally. I am inclined to assume that a given student can pass a given test, other things being equal, because of what I keep seeing in my students: when I believe in 'em, they seem to take that as license to begin to believe in themselves, and then they're likelier to stretch and get ingenious - and they're likelier to forget that They're No Good At ____ long enough to do better in it than they ever thought they would.

 

good answers TG.....


I have buried that "I'm no good at ________." phrase also! I took over a ESL second grade class. Teacher separated them class and called one group of kids, "The little group."

How's that for patronizing!! I hate it when people give kids a self-profilling prophecy!

so I came in and said, we are doing this and that. and one of the kids said, "We are in the liddle group..we don't do that."

I said, "Oh no...now I am teaching and we all do everything. Just try and do your best!"

sorry...did not mean to aim loaded question at you

I was loaded and gunning for Brother Bear! As you said..my brother also pointed out stuff from Ikea is better engineered..it is easier to put together. So I said, fine..next time get me a gift certificate from IKEA!!

 

(chuckling)

While he's at it, he could maybe get me one, too...?

 

of course! or, trade you my Ikea gift card for a case of Kern's apricot Nectar!

 

In a single sentence, what would you say is the single biggest problems with NCLB? In one or two sentences, how would you like to see it changed?

 

The biggest issue with NCLB is that it forces teachers to change their teaching practices to ensure students will pass manadatory testing and does not get any input from teachers regarding tests!

How's that for a run-on sentence??


Denver schools are now paying teachers higher salaries on the contingency that their students WILL have high test scores! This is an outrage!! You are forcing teachers to make sure kids will score high, and not having any concern if they are actually learning.

Chicago Public Schools has just announced they will offer incentives to students, parents and teachers for high attendance and high test scores. These incentives range from toys, cash, cars, and higher teacher's salaries.

And the president of AFT said he is looking to see how this will work?? Whose side is he on??

To quote the late Malcolm X, we will make sure these kids pass, "By any means necessary!"

I am ready to turn in my credential...and work for Walgreens full time.

Wed. class is about to begin...
see you guys later...

 

In my opinion, the biggest problem with NCLB would have to be the unreasonable expectations placed on both students and teachers.

How would I like to see it changed? I would like to see more support for teachers and students. This would include more resources for both teachers and students.

Of course, this is my biggest problem with NCLB today....it might change by tomorrow. It hasn't been the greatest week.....

 

OMG...Please tell me you guys haven't seen my post earlier today??? PAYDAY, no PAY

I can't believe I did not get paid today!!

This is what NCLB does to us!!!!

It makes people more accountable to numbers...and not concerned with teachers as people!

My daycare center must have a Master Pre-K to meet state/federal standards. yet, the state budget gives my director the runaround...and these people have been going on without pay for months. They knew when they hired me they didn't have any money to pay me on time! I think it is just downright insane.

NCLB tells us to go back to school, and get more degrees..
Now I am in school, and can't afford my home!

I dropped my third class guys..I can't do this.

sniff..sniff

I am too sad to even put up the HELP smiley...

 

That is definitely a problem worth mentioning. I'm curious as to why the runaround. It always sounds more complicated than it is. Oh dear...

 

Forgive any naivete on my part; I'm not a teacher by profession.

It seems there are a couple of problems with NCLB, but one of the main things is the testing reqs. First, you have the multi-year effect -- if the kid comes in at a first grade reading level and you're a fourth grade teacher, there's nothing you're going to be able to do to get them to sixth grade level by the end of the year (at least, under our current methodologies and processes). Second, there's the matter of what the tests actually test.

In actual experiments, to know if something has actually had an effect you do a pre-test and post-test, while keeping all other variables constant. So, to know if the students learned anything you'd give them a test at the beginning of the year, and at the end, and compare. Although this technically doesn't mean the teacher actually did the teaching, the state shouldn't really care if the results are good. If all the students did was sit in class and chat about cartoons, but somehow reliably progressed up grade levels, the state should be happy about that. Who knows, maybe a teacher doing just that would have incredible rapport and persuasive ability with the parents and get them to teach the kid. Or magic. Of course, the most likely answer would be that performance would indicate teacher quality during the year.

It seems to me like a pre-test/post-test could be implemented on a state level and satisfy the federal requirements, while more correctly analyzing merit as a teacher.

Of course, then you have the issue of what the tests actually test. You should definitely agitate for better tests, even if you don't think any test will ever fully account for everything.

BTW, can anyone tell me why the students should care about the results of these tests, particularly the ASK3? While I've heard that some states use them for advancement, I don't think the NJ test is used for that purpose, and don't really see that it makes a whit of difference in the student's lives at all (except for sacking a week of teaching).

 

the students don't care at all about the test...they just HATE them...

nobody really cares that you scored 8.5 in a 3rd grade test, except your parents...if they understand the results. What is more alarming is that you scored 90% higher than the percentile of your school, and your school scored 90% lower than your district, and your district scored 90% lower than your state.

Now, who is sitting around the playground talking about this?? "Hey guys, I think if I practice my fractions..I should be able to push my percentile up a notch for the 5th grade testing!"

testing, without results that are understandable and measurable to the student, teacher and parent...is meaningless

it only proves to the powers that be. that we are bigger, better stronger...

And no, I still have not been paid. Let's see what happens tomorrow.

 

Master prek--are you going to work for them or not? If not, start subbing right away. That will at least pay the bills. And I was wondering why don't you try some other grade? You seem to only have bad luck in preschool. Possibly it's the business, I don't know, never having worked in that area. But why keep doing something that makes you unhappy? Go for something else, maybe even high school? Good luck, and sorry.

 

I was waiting for you eduk8r...
I've been sabatoging (hijacking) threads all day yesterday and today!

you are so right...
but you know..we seem to be gluttons for punishment
and don't understand why things don't go our way
to belabor the point...I really liked this job
But for crying out loud, I gotta eat!
so the more I talked about it, the more I realized I needed to make some changes...
Today, I sent resumes and completed online applications
Yesterday, I could not even imagine doing so..

going to get some cake...
thanks to all for caring...

 

LOL! That was so funny, prek.

I'm not, not one little bit. Enough suffering is enough. I'm glad you like the job, but you need something stable and that's all there is to it. I don't think anyone should have to ask for or wait for their pay when they've worked contract hours, period. That just isn't right. They should definitely have mentioned this to you when you were offered the job. But they didn't and they're not paying you, so you're not obligated, let it go. You have to take care of yourself, that's your first job.

...pick yourself up and start subbing before you lose any more money....I mean it!
Or else if you're going to keep working for them start budgeting like you would if you were a sub, make your money last. That's your mommy talk for tonight, unless TG comes in...

 

thanks Mom! (I couldn't tell her..she would be crushed)

I meant you were right about me getting away from at risk pre-k, non-profit agencies, and looking into other grade levels. Just because I like it doesn't mean it is right for me!

Already revamped budget...no more dry cleaners this month! Ironing my own pants again!

Why, I plan to show up in jeans tomorrow. That would save me even more! It is Friday..and I didn't see a dress code in the personnel handbook!