NCLB--Do you hate it, deal with it, or doesn't affect me?

I pretty much don't like it at all! I think it's very wishful thinking that no child will be left behind! I am dealing with the highly qualified issue as we speak. I just spoke with my certification specialist and I have to fill out a HOUSSE form to show my highly qualified status. It's ridiculous. I have my teaching certificate in Florida, but did not take their subject area exam because I came from North Carolina where I also had a teaching licence and took the Praxis. Apparently though, Florida does not count the Praxis. So I have to deal with this BS!!!! If you want to teach in Florida and you are not from Florida, be prepared to go through some red tape!!!!!!!!! It's not hard, just a hassle.

 

Professionally it doesn't effect me at all. I'm in a private school. As long as we've proven to NY that our exams are at least as rigorous as the NY Regents exams (and, believe me, they are!) we don't have to adhere to their standards.

But I do have 3 kids under the age of 10. We'll see how all that plays out.

 

I am with Aliceacc so to speak. I teach at a Catholic parochial school, so we don't have to follow all the mandates of NCLB. We do take the ITBS tests each year, have standards set out for us to follow, and scores reported and compared (within and without of the building), but aside from these NCLB has little impact on me.

That said, I'm not a fan of this legislation at all. It seems to make very little sense whatsoever. The only thing I do like about it is that I can attend conferences I could never afford otherwise.

 

I do not know all of the consequences of the NCLB. I guess a lot of people can lose jobs even though they have a lot of useful education. Is it a punishment system? Is it a Kennedy-Bush thing to look good in parental politics? If so, how do the politicians know whether teachers are working harder to take care of the kids or if parents are working harder? Or is it a consequence of terrorism - why do we (starting with children in school) have more in this country when we don't work as hard as people in other countries?
I think we have been hearing that the program is a failure. I guess that means that no one has really found a successful way to teach the pythagorean theorem, combinations and permutations to slow learners as fast as to quick learners.

 

There are issues that NCLB purports to deal with that are genuine and that haven't always been dealt with as they should be - I'm thinking of the achievement gap and kids who get left behind simply because the schools where they live have gone so neglected for so long. And nearly all teachers can tell at least one horror story about teachers who weren't prepared, in their past or among their colleagues or both, and often several horror stories about teachers who knew the material but couldn't or wouldn't do what it takes to teach it properly. And there's much to be said for ensuring that a high school diploma does actually represent a level of competence, and also for ensuring that a kid who moves from one state to another or even one district to another can expect a reasonable level of consistency and continuity in what's being taught.

That said, there are certainly aspects of the implementation of NCLB that are stupid. Whether the stupidities directly reflect the legislation itself or whether they're added layer by layer as the mandate from Washington works its way through state, county, district, and school bureaucracies is, of course, an open question.

If things are going to change for the better, however, it's going to require that teachers themselves take part in the debate in ways that teachers historically have tended not to do. Teachers need to be able to defend what they do (or would like to do) and why they do it, in public places, going toe to toe (politely) with those who arrogantly assume that public school teachers are really only babysitters.

 

What choice is there other than to deal with it?

 

Well, yes, though there's plenty of choice in how to deal with it: there's dealing with it by leaving the profession; there's dealing with it by complying with it literally and moaning about it outside the classroom; there's dealing with it by quietly finding workarounds and hoping one doesn't get caught using them; there's dealing with it by claiming the whole thing is bogus (this one's likely to be a very hard sell to anyone who isn't a teacher); there's dealing with it by documenting what does work and what doesn't work... and doubtless a number of variations I'm not coming up with at the moment.

 

I was offered a job as a master pre-k teacher, working with Head Start, in a charter school! Yes, that is more than a mouthful!

It was an oxy-moron if I ever saw one! First, this is a private school, and we have to march in the hall, no singing or finger plays while waiting to use the bathroom! You want me to teach Open Court Language Arts for 45 minutes to children 3-5!!! I have to teach 30 minutes of Saxon Math! I need to post these alphabets on the ceiling! Stop, freeze, hold your horses! I KNOW Head Start will not allow me to post letters on the wall! Preschool children need free play, and time to explore! It is not developmentally appropriate to sit for 45 minutes!!! And when will I have time to do my Head Start stuff??? And their answer?? Well, if kids can learn rap songs, they need to start learning how to read! Yes, NCLB rears its ugly head! I can't be forced into a philosphy I don't embrace.

I saw a brillant program on PBS regarding NCLB in several cities. It covers some of these issues you address! But, correct me if I am wrong, I have yet to see public forums or rallies in my area on this matter. I just look up, and here it is. Do it, or work somewhere else!

 

Does NCLB mean anything to the students who do not value education? What if the kids are born to uneducated families and the parents and the kids in that school district do not care if they get an education? Couldn't a person could just flunk until they are 18 or 21 or whatever?
Oh, yeah, BTW, I recall a 24 year old kid in high school. He wore a bullet proof vest and needed me to teach him to fly an airplane which I never did. I told him it would be a lot of money to which he replied, "Believe me, money is no object." That was 13 years ago - wow I could probably be rich now. Instead I am renting and still living paycheck to paycheck.

 

The biggest factor NCLB ignores is parents! Parental involvement is a huge indicator of student achievement! I know there are lots of schools that don't have any, but still make AYP each year--I'd really like those teachers to come to my school and show us how to do it! Seriously! My school is entering year 6 of SI, and one major hurdle I face every year is when parents flat out tell me or my students that they don't care about what goes on in the classroom. The devaluing of education trickles down--I can't make a 9 year old care about a test they don't want to take.

 

Nope! Because every child who flunks lowers the average of that class, grade level, school, district, neighborhood, and teaching staff!

Mind you, I don't see any remedial, correction (accelerated) programs given to these folks. Just bring those scores up, or else!

So, it's like your neighbor who refuses to cut his grass or fix his mailbox. He gets fines, and your property values go down. They hold a town meeting, and he gets ugly looks for weeks. Finally, somebody just cuts his grass when he is at work! Does he care? No! Is it fair? No. But what are you going to do? Why should everyone suffer just because of what one can't, won't or doesn't care??

and as teachers...what do we say, when we have given our best???

my philosphy paper started with, "All children can learn." But you can lead a kid to a book, but you can't make him read!

NCLB is forcing us to make kids learn, and not at their speed. which, as we all know is totally inappopriate.

 

Again, let me reiterate: I speak here as an outsider.

But it seems to me that we have no one to blame but ourselves.

NCLB is the result of decades of putting our heads in the sand as to student achievement, school organization, teacher qualifications and other big education issues.

We as a nation, know that our schools are not all they could or should be. When SAT scores started to plummet, it should have been a wakeup call: thing are going sour. What did we do? We curved (oops, sorry, can't say that!!! We "recentered" ) the scores so no one would see the problem.

For years colleges hav been complaining that our graduates were lacking in basic skills, unable to correctly fill out an application or apply what they should know in entry level courses. Did we get it together at that point? Nope. Instead, colleges now offer no-credit remedial courses.

Big business has been complaining that our graduates don't know basic math, can't write a business letter and can't make the connections they should be able to. So we hand them a calculator at age 6, spell check and grammar check at age 7, and assume the problem has been taken care of.

How many teachers simply don't know their subject matter??? How many are functionally illiterate themselves?? (No, I'm not talking about the typos we all make here. I'm talking about those who don't KNOW the difference between "principal and principle", "to, two and too", "their and "they're" and so on)

Sure, NCLB has huge problems. No one bandaid, no matter how big or well made, is going to fix all the problems in our nation's education system.

But we've got to do something. The country that put a man on the moon in 10 years is on a downward spiral and it's got to stop.

So let me pose the question: What's wrong with education (not parenting; we can't fix that), and how SHOULD it be fixed?

 

But I think there are entire communities that don't...

I guess I understand you. I think there are entire districts, even whole communities that don't care. Also I think teachers have been happy to take on the extra work (kind of like parenting in a sense) because they got paid more for doing more. But then as time went on, no one could really prove the teachers were supposed to do the parenting. Would you still have pretty much the same reply?

 

It's been extremely easy historically to use parental involvement, race, neighborhood, etc. as excuses, I'm afraid - there have historically been and still are still schools with subpar facilities, hopelessly outdated textbooks or not enough or none at all, no libraries, uncaring/incompetent teachers and administrations, etc., etc., and they're much likelier to be like that in areas in which the assumption is that neither the parents nor the kids are likely to be interested, because they're poor or nonwhite or rural or whatever label one chooses to apply that makes them a Them and not an Us. To the extent that NCLB helps us uncover those festering sores and deal with them properly, I'm for it (or, to be precise, for a better version of it), for the sake of the kids in those areas who can be reached and who certainly deserve much, much better.

 

"because they're poor or nonwhite or rural or whatever label one chooses to apply that makes them a Them and not an Us."

TG, that phrase is one of the finest pieces of writing I've ever seen!!!

WHEN are you writing that book????

 

I don't have any rules to follow homeschooling, but perhaps some of the reasons why we homeschool was affected by it. I mean for goodess sakes, the English language was just declared a few months ago as the official language in this area. Being a border state to mexico affects the school system and how they handle the state tests, and such.

 

Parenthetically, what is the real practical effect of declaring English the official language? It gives a handful of politicians some extremely dubious bragging rights ("Look how much we did! We passed a bill!" Yes, and it's going to be effective, how?). It reminds the target population (and I am definitely thinking bulls-eye here) of the extent to which they are seen as Them and not Us. Other than that... not much, frankly. Real solutions to that issue, like real solutions to the problems in education, aren't nearly so simple or neat.

As to the book, Alice... (sigh) I make noise here, and some people agree, and others' responses remind me of the extent to which I am a Them here and not an Us. Would anyone really listen? Would anything really change?

 

Nope, that's a copout.

Would anyone listen?? I am. Would anything really change? Well, not if you don't TRY!!!!

And we speak a LOT here about how "us" vs. Them." Does it really matter??? What you say needs to be heard.

How about starting with that freelance job???

 

Teaching is difficult even in wealthy communities with performing schools

I guess even the industries are making work harder now days. So I guess teachers should also be more productive. If we do not we may be taken over by a smarter country.

 

I am very curious how NCLB will affect me as a first year teacher. I will be giving my students the MAP test this year. I've seen how teachers freak out while they prepare their students for these tests. I'm not looking forward to it.

Something interesting to me (and maybe this isn't from NCLB, but I think it is...feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), is the St. Louis Public Schools have lost their accredidation. The school district was struggling, their students didn't "perform" well on achievement tests (among other problems), so they lost their accredidation. Now no one wants their child in a school like that. There's a new school board that supposed to be making changes, but everyone is so busy arguing that no one is thinking about the kids anymore. How is that making sure there is No Child Left Behind? I don't totally understand the NCLB legislation, so please forgive me if I'm way off in my thinking. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents....

 

TG, I'd read your book. I think you have lots of interesting insights into some important issues!

 

I'm ready to pre-order my copy right now!

 

OK-Here are a few things I have heard over the past couple years (and no, I don't go out of my way to stay politically current, so feel free to straighten me out.)

A school must consistently improve its test scores or it will lose funding or accredidation or whatever. If this is true, how are the low-achieving students who need the extra help and resources to be expected to improve? And what about those schools whose scores have consistently been at 97% or 98%? I'm sorry, but no school, no matter how wonderful and utopian, will EVER reach 100% We don't even expect that of big business. If the economy experiences dips why not test scores? And if Utopian School is consistently at 97% and experiences a dip for XYZ reason, is it really fair to penalize them?

Test scores are all that matter (aparently). Test scores determine funding, accredidation, teacher status (for lack of a better word), and school status. It's all about the scores. If this is true than little Sally is in real trouble along with all her peers. You see, she attends a school with a lot of children who come from migrant and ESL families. The teachers in her school work hard and, while test scores are rarely at "grade level", the children show vast growth over time. It is not unusual for a child in this school to enter 3 grade with a .5 reading level, but the same child will grow to a 2.3 reading level by the end the year. That doesn't matter though as only test scores that are at or exceed grade level are the only ones the government looks for. So this school will be severly "punished" this fall.

The above is a hypothetical, but I'm sure you would agree that this is a very real scenario.

 

I guess what bothers me most about NCLB is that my students (ESE) are tested the same as Gen Ed students and are expected to make the same progress as the reg ed kids. Eventually, my students who will never make grade level, will be responsible for bringing down the grade of the entire school.This will negate all the wonderful work that our talented and devoted teachers are doing every day.

 

I can't profess to know much about NCLB, just bits and pieces I've read here and there. What I always have difficulty understanding, however, is how Special Ed students, particularly those achieving far below grade level, are expected to complete and be tested on grade level curriculum and concepts.

 

Ouch. I can blow off a lot of people, Alice, but you've busted me dead to rights: disregarding this will take a great deal of ingenuity, imagination, and intelligence, and could be that effort would be better spent actually buckling down and... and...

(I can't believe I'm typing this.)

 

... and doing whatever you choose.

I'm not your mother, your spouse, your priest or your lawyer. (All of which should make you incredibly happy )

But you would write SOME book!!!

 

OKay, I had to laugh a little at your expense. Sorry. There was one poster some many months back that did the same thing to me. Because of it, I started a letter writing campaign immediately. (I have actually gotten some response and headway with it recently). I was curious at who actually got me going down the "doing something about it" route. I looked it up. Yup. It was you!

 

In AZ we have the AIMS test, it is not working
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0718aims0718.html
I too am a "highly-qualified" in Math (and Industrial Arts but IA does not have a highly-qualified designation) I have been teaching IA for 33+ years I have taught Math here and there BUT on Paper I am "highly-qualified" Certified and course work in Secondary Education Math.


I have always hated "teaching to the test" BUT that is what NCLB has forced schools to do! Test on the learning is what we need to do. NOT ALL STUDENTS LEARN AT THE SAME RATE OR IN THE SAME WAY!

Also in AZ we have 301 Monies it was pitched to the teachers as a pay increase
BUT
in reality it is a circus act of seeing how many hoops teachers will jump through!
ALL in the name of student achievement.

Also Researched based HA HA "what a crock"
Data can be made to say anything. I do not trust the "Ivory Tower" College Research, the Researchers mostly have not been in a school room since High School and the Professors havent been in a school room in years. What Text book company is funding the Research? It is impersonal bean counting.
I don't trust the Research unless I see the criteria and just what they want to prove!

ALSO NCLB seems to me to be only pushing students to college there are other paths that can be taken, Tech School & Apprentice Programs are just two I can give you now.
Also there is nothing wrong with Skilled Labor.
We are not preparing students for life with the Standardized tests we have now.

 

Isn't there a line somewhere about no good deed going unpunished?

I am well and truly come-upped, if you'll excuse the neologism.

 

We have a school that scored 1000 on the API. I guess they will be in program improvement next year since they won't be able to go beyond perfect.

I'm a parent and a career-changer. I chose between homeschooling my kids and getting involved with the system that I see as needing reform. I'm becoming a teacher to work from the inside of the system and try to make changes. Maybe NCLB is the result of teachers failing year over year as has been suggested. I wasn't involved with public education until I had kids. There are many problems, and some have been created by NCLB. It does seem like the creators of NCLB threw this out to give teachers something to edit. At least it is a start.

 

The thing is, I don't think that NCLB all by itself is the culprit, though it's certainly a very easy target. As far as I can tell, nothing in the legislation per se REQUIRES teaching to the test. That element of the roiling stew comes from other sources - including professors of education who will cheerfully chirp that they themselves could never have passed the exams that are required of their students... what kind of message does that send, I ask?

 

You are right but it is interpreted by the powers to be that the test will be put on high and worshiped.

 

It seems to me that NCLB had good intentions and really was intended to help the students. Having said that, it doesn't seem to be working. I think it has a long way to go and needs a lot of changes before it will really be helping our kids.

When a school loses accredidation for poor test scores, is that part of NCLB? If it is, how does that really help the students in the district? A new board is supposed to come in and reform the school, right? How does a school get "reformed" if they lose funding? How does taking money (resources) away from a failing school help the school do better?

 

well, from a pre-k point of view...

I'm all for advocacy, and standing up for children. I also like to know what tenure is really about, and revise some programs for teacher credentialling!

I guess my point is this. Teachers have been in charge of the classroom, the kids are our domain. How can some government official tell us what to test, when to test, and not even care how the results of the test can affect the child? In otherwords, testing for the sake of testing proves nothing! I passed a math test! Wow, that's great. Of course, I took it three times! Now ask me to solve a quadratic equation! I can't even remember, I will honestly guess. That is not important to me. Does that make me a bad teacher? No, because my focus is not on 7th grade math.

Yes, something needs to be done. But can we do something with what we did? I got test scores...okay, now what? Don't just pass them or fail them, help them do more or do better!!

 

now can you go over to the "ugh, don't say that" thread, and put us out of our misery! We are laughing ourselves silly, but the reality is, this attack on the English language is at epidemic levels!!!

It is your duty...

 

here here, Alice! No more free rides! Gas is back up to $3.50

 

My dad wants to know if I can solve quadratic equations by the Hindu method! is there really such a thing Dave? Please say no! I looked it up, and I think there is.

How will knowing this help me teach a pre-schooler cause and effect?

Skinner said..all behavior is learned. I learned you will extinguish, the very behavior you wish to achieve..instrinic motivation, if you keep testing a child.