Nap time, grrrrrr

Discussion in 'Preschool' started by tiffharmon2001, Nov 5, 2009.

  1. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    Nov 5, 2009

    I have pretty much worked out all the kinks to my naptime finally this year. It has taken a lot of work, but I have at least 1/2 and usually more of my class who sleep every day.
    There is one, though, who has only slept one day all year. Instead he lays over on his mat and makes all kinds of noises (like guns, airplanes, etc) and rolls and crawls all over the floor. He folds his mat up like a cave and crawls into it, picks it up and smacks it on the ground.
    I've tried everything I can think of. We've sat by him, put him on our laps, patted his back, ignored him, talked to him, talked to dad, removed him from the room. Nothing helps.
    Yesterday, I had to walk all the way over there to find out who he was talking to-HIMSELF! Everyone around him was asleep.
    I talked to dad and he suggested giving him a book. Dad said "I know that he will be quiet and look at a book on his mat." WRONG! The two days we tried it, he was throwing the books up in the air, sliding them across the floor, putting them under the cabinet.

    Any other great ideas I could try with him? I don't really care whether or not he sleeps. But I need him quiet and in his space so that my other kids can nap.
     
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  3. mrgrinch09

    mrgrinch09 Comrade

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    What are the consequences for having a bad rest time?
     
  4. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    One of these kids comes along every year or so. You have to keep working until you find the key to this child's behavior.

    You are doing the best you can by trying different techniques. Here is what worked for one of my difficult children. I created a corral with shelving and tables, to restrict his view of the room. I put him on his cot, and ignored him. If his head popped up I told him to lay down. Eventually, he got bored, and went to sleep. It did not work evey day, but on the days it worked, my life was easier.
     
  5. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    Consequences are one of the things that I am having a hard time with. I give stamps at the end of the day for kids who have had a great day. I also send a behavior report home every day so that if a child loses his/her stamp the parents will know exactly what happened. His dad has just decided that losing his stamp during rest time isn't a big deal because "he hasn't been a napper since he was two". I can't get dad to see that it's not the napping that I'm concerned with. It's the disturbing other children around him.
    I'm tried having him "practice" resting during fun times of the day, like centers. He thinks that's great fun.
    I'd love to hear some great ideas for consequences that might work for him.

    And Blue, I am working on his little "corral". I have him kind of boxed in with tables and chairs. I've started moving other kids away from him one by one. He has gotten really still once of twice and I've thought he was going to give in, but once he catches himself falling asleep, he gets right back to the noises.

    Dad and step-mother have both told me that he does that for HOURS at night before he goes to sleep. They feel that going in to tell him to be quiet would be rewarding him by giving him attention, so they just let him continue until he falls asleep.
     
  6. tracykaliski

    tracykaliski Connoisseur

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    I'll be the dissenter here. Obviously he's not tired, so why does he have to nap? If he's not the one who's tired, it's really not his problem that he doesn't sleep, it's yours.

    We offer something for our non-napping kids to do in the afternoon, so they aren't put into that kind of situation. If he doesn't nap and you're expecting him to nap, particularly if he doesn't need the nap, then in essence, you're making him wrong for realizing he doesn't need the extra sleep.
     
  7. sarzacsmom

    sarzacsmom Groupie

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    our state regs do not allow disciplining a child for not sleeping. We are REQUIRED to let them get up and do a quiet acivity after resting on their mats for 30 minutes. Perhaps if you got visual timer or color coded the hands on a clock so you can give him concrete representation of time and let him know that if he lay quietly til _______(red hand is on the 3 or til the red goes away-on a visual timer--got mine from Discount school supply. It makes two very soft beeps at the end of the time so the kids have to be quiet in order to hear it), then he can get up and do a quiet activity at the table that he enjoys? If he doesn't do the activity quietly then he goes back on his mat---start with a pretty short time span so as to encourage rather than discourage and when he can successfully do that , extend the time a little more...
     
  8. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

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    You could have been describing my oldest. You could make him lie there forever and he would never go to sleep. Even without a nap he took a couple of hours to settle himself to sleep and is a horrible sleeper as an adult. Give up the ghost - it is not worth the effort to force a child to sleep who isn't tired and is, in my opinion, cruel. I know it is hard on you, etc. etc. but it is like making a child sit on the toilet for hours if he won't go poop - if he doesn't need to he doesn't need to - I know it is policy etc. but I don't think it is respectful to force a child to sleep or even lie quietly more than 30 minutes when their body is telling them to get up and move. I know it isnt what you want to hear but...
     
  9. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    Again, I DO NOT CARE if he sleeps or not. My problem is with the NOISE LEVEL that he has during nap time. He is on his mat shooting guns and YELLING out things continuously throughout naptime.

    Like I said, I did give him books to look at quietly on his mat, but instead he chose to THROW THEM across the room.

    Is it really wrong to ask a child to be QUIET? I have lots of kids who don't sleep, but they all stay on their mats and do not bother anyone else.

    In NO WAY am I being "cruel" to him by asking him to be respectful of the other children who need to sleep. And I really don't appreciate the name calling from someone who does not know me.
     
  10. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    Nov 5, 2009

    Again, I DO NOT CARE if he sleeps or not. My problem is with the NOISE LEVEL that he has during nap time. He is on his mat shooting guns and YELLING out things continuously throughout naptime.

    Like I said, I did give him books to look at quietly on his mat, but instead he chose to THROW THEM across the room.

    Is it really wrong to ask a child to be QUIET? I have lots of kids who don't sleep, but they all stay on their mats and do not bother anyone else.

    In NO WAY am I being "cruel" to him by asking him to be respectful of the other children who need to sleep. And I really don't appreciate the name calling from someone who does not know me.
     
  11. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    Okay, sorry for the double post. I've been trying to delete it, but my computer has a mind of it's own tonight.
     
  12. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    The noise thing reminds me of my GS. His is caused by his ADHD. He has to be busy all the time. I give him those squishey things to squeeze and it seems to reduce the noise.
     
  13. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    Thank you! Now there's an idea I hadn't thought of yet. I have some balloons and flour. I may have to make up one of those tonight.
     
  14. Mamacita

    Mamacita Aficionado

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    My children never napped after they left infancy and entered toddlerhood, but this, as you say, isn't a question of sleeping. It's a question of obeying the authority figure.

    You are not at fault in any way here. This child obviously knows, probably from experience, that there will be no parental consequences for his blatant disobedience.

    The fault here lies with the "parent," and I use that term loosely. A good parent would make bloody sure his child behaved at school, and there would be consequences for any misbehaviors or disobedience. This child is testing you, knowing full well that you probably can't win because you aren't being backed up as you should rightfully be by the parent.

    Can you create a little cave or isolated spot for this child? Perhaps, without an audience or anyone to give him a "show" when he does his rowdy "thing," he would be more inclined to behave himself.

    We are not a napping family, and it's torture to be asked to sleep when one is not sleepy, but being asked to simply sit or lie calmly and look at books, etc, is not too much to ask. The child is brazenly defying you.

    Good luck, and please remind yourself that this situation is not your fault. This child is the sad result of poor parenting.
     
  15. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

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    tiff,

    I sincerley apologize if you think I was name calling. What I am just trying to say if you have one of those active children who can't sleep or stay still, lying quietly is torture. It is not about obeying authority, it is about the stress it causes them just attempting to do so. Of course he is loud and wiggly, it is not in his nature or temperament or physical ability to be still and quiet that long. Nothing against you personally - it is just one of many examples of how schools are not friendly to the learning styles and temperaments of many boys which is why they are considered discipline problems and unsuccessful in school. We have designed schools to be friendly to a certain type of children who are able to sit still and are visual or auditory learners - the rest of the kids are forced to try to adapt and struggle through. Perhaps he is ADHD but I hate to label all active boys as hyperactive. I had one of these boys and he was brought up to obey teachers, so the stress of needing to cooperate at school caused a lot of problems at home because that energy had to come out somewhere. I feel for your problem - I just see if from the other side. It is like asking a kid to do the hurdles when he is learning to walk - we set them up for failure. Again, I am sorry. I was not trying to criticize you personally, just comment on the philosophy of naps, etc.
     
  16. SpecSub

    SpecSub Comrade

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    Could you play some soft background music to help dilute his noises?
     
  17. clarnet73

    clarnet73 Moderator

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    When Iv'e had non-nappers, I've allowed them to bring a backpack just for nap time with QUIET toys in there. I've put the parents in charge of filling and restocking it... that includes books, crayons, paper, etc. The deal is that the child had to lay quietly for 15 or 30 min (depending on the child), and then they are allowed to get their bag. BUT... if I hear you, then the bag goes away for the day. I always played music, or sometimes stories on tape, which i think helped. They have to be quiet to hear the stories, which I think they like.

    I've rarely had kids who refuse to sleep, but the nap bags really helped those couple of kids. They were old enough to understand the consequences of misbehaving, and it really did make a diference...
     
  18. prekisme

    prekisme New Member

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    Try putting him where you can see him and give him a paper plate with a spiral drawn in the plate. Let him cut on the line. He will have a spiral when he is through. It practices is fine motor skills and keeps him busy. Try changing the color of paper plates to keep him interested. Hope this helps!
     
  19. kimrandy1

    kimrandy1 Enthusiast

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    I'm didn't read a reply that included name-calling or the word cruel...perhaps it was deleted or modified? I thnk one of the greatest things about this forum is the fact that we have so many different opinions and ideas, and we can learn from others who disagree with us. Let's approach this with an open mind!

    I do have to say - this makes me happy I teach a half day program. No naps!
     
  20. Dzenna

    Dzenna Groupie

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    Tiff- I think Blue has an excellent suggestion. Why not give him some "sensory items". Squish balls, Cush balls, or other fidgets, stickers, theraband, theraputty, playdough,weighted blanket or vest. Maybe some of these things will calm him.
     
  21. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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  22. tracykaliski

    tracykaliski Connoisseur

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    I have to disagree. A child who can't lay still during nap time is not the fault of the parents. I think blaming it on the parents it a cop out in many ways.

    Tiff, I understand that you're not asking him to sleep, but even asking him to lay quietly for that long is setting him up to fail. At our school we offer these children an alternative activity, away from napping children, so they can continue to explore and do something worthwhile, instead of setting them up to be made to feel inadequate because they can't lie still for a specified period of time. Is that possible at your school?
     
  23. tracykaliski

    tracykaliski Connoisseur

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    Very well said. I couldn't agree with you more.
     
  24. forkids

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    It's hard to ignore this behavior, but that is what I have had the most success with. I put the child in a corner by themself, use a mat as a divider in front of them, and ignore anything and everything they do. It is hard but so far has worked for me. They eventually give up when their antics get no results. I do provide squishy balls, books, sensory bottles, etc. to give them something quiet to do.
     
  25. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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  26. halpey1

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    We have quiet time in my K class. While the kids don't usually fall asleep, I explain this is a time to relax your brain and body and reflect on the day so far. I do a whole lesson on reflecting and model what I'd be thinking about for them a few days. They seem to get it - not sure how this would work in Preschool though. :)
     
  27. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    Yes it does work and I have done this. It has worked on even the "wiggliest" child. There are parents who don't teach their children to relax and be still. It takes some time and patience, but we can teach them. It's good for them.
     
  28. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    This is exactly what I have said to my assistant. He just doesn't know how to relax. Especially when his dad (and recently step mom) have told me that he will do that for HOURS at night in his room.

    My oldest wasn't a napper either. She would do anything (even blink her eyes) to keep herself awake. Nap time was a killer for her in PreK. However, as people have said to me on some of my other posts "we all have to do things that we don't like to do". My dd was expected to lie on her mat and be quiet during rest time because that was the rule. If she disturbed others during rest time, there were consequences at home.

    She also had a hard time falling asleep at night. She would toss and turn for hours also. So to help, I would sit next to her bed and read to her until she fell asleep. Sometimes it would take over an hour, but it helped her to relax her body and focus her mind on something so that she could fall asleep. She still reads herself to sleep most nights.
     
  29. Irissa

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    Remind me not to send my son to your school. People who haven't had to parent a very active child really shouldn't pass judgment.

    Move the kid to another area of your classroom and work on a quiet voice. Every child is an individual with their own needs. If he doesn't nap REMOVE him from the situation.
     
  30. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    Where exactly would you suggest I remove him to? My classroom isn't that large, so no matter where I put him in the room, he is going to be disturbing someone. We don't have extra people in our building to babysit non-nappers during nap time.

    Obviously, since you assume that I haven't had to parent a very active child, you haven't read many of my past posts regarding my son-who happens to be in the PreK class next door. He is having a horrible time this year. He doesn't like to sit on the rug, he doesn't like to walk in line, he has a hard time sharing and waiting his turn-not because he's trying to misbehave, but because he's very impulsive (we're still working on meds or a behavior plan that works for him).

    So, since you say that every child is an individual with his own needs, should the teacher not expect my son to follow the rules? Should he get to play at centers while the other children are at group time or should he get to run down the hall while the other children walk in line? No, he is expected to follow the rules and when he doesn't, there are consequences at school and at home.

    The RULE at school is that the children must be QUIET at rest time. If a child can't follow the rule, there will be a consequence. If the parent doesn't like the nap time rule, we have a half-day option that ends well before nap time (the way our schedule is set up, it also ends with only a half hour of instructional time, but that's a different issue). Also, PreK is not required in my state, so parents always have the option to keep their child home or find alternate care.
     
  31. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    Don't think that will be a problem.
     
  32. MissCeliaB

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    I agree! When I taught the little guys we had a few challenging nappers. Most of them had just never been taught to calm themselves down. As a whole class, we learned about how to take deep breaths, close our eyes, try to be "still like a statue," try to relax each part of our body at a time, etc. We played relaxing music for the students and sprayed "sleepy spray," which was just lavender and chamomile scented air freshener. We stressed how important it is for kids to get plenty of rest, at night and during the day. Sometimes parents would come to school and say, "I'm so sorry. Susie must not have napped yesterday, cause she came home and went to sleep right at her bedtime." Actually, the child had napped! Kids have to be taught to relax, just like they have to be taught to sit quietly, etc. It's a life skill, and one that sadly isn't modeled by parents much these days as they rush around between responsibilities at work, home, church, community, and family.
     
  33. Kindergarten31

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    We still have rest time at our Kindergarten-with no expectations of sleeping, but resting and regrouping for the rest of the day. I do have a bunch fall asleep, but those that don't must be quiet and respectful of the others. I have occassionally allowed restless children to do work at their table, but then get "How come so and so gets to work and I don't?" I also expect the children to sit and listen during our circle/lesson time-even if they are an individual who can't keep still. I have also tried sleep masks and they do work with some kids.
     
  34. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Wow.... that was a bit rude.

    To the OP what about having him put headphones on and listening to a book on tape while looking at the book at the same time? OR, what about those types of books with that magic wand thing? I don't even know if they make this anymore... Just some ideas.
     
  35. clarnet73

    clarnet73 Moderator

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    Nov 12, 2009

    I'm going to presume that you're already playing calm, soothing music during rest time, because that's pretty much standard practice (as I believe it should be). Greg and Steve have a quiet time CD with a selection about how to relax your body, which may or may not be useful... have you tried stories on tape? The 4's next door to my room at the daycare often started naptime off with a book or two being read to them as they drifted off. Even for the kids who didn't sleep, they had to be quiet to hear the story. They would specifically ask for a story if someone else was in the room and didn't know to start with the story tape. Might be an option...
     

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