Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by DrivingPigeon, Apr 6, 2015.

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1. ### MikeTeachesMathDevotee

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Apr 7, 2015

Let x = the cost of the ball
Therefore, x + 1 = the cost of the bat

x + (x + 1) = 1.10
2x + 1 = 1.10
2x = 0.10
x = 0.05

Therefore, the ball costs 5 cents and the bat \$1.05.

My knee-jerk reaction was 10 cents .

2. ### amakayeEnthusiast

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Apr 7, 2015

I also thought 10 cents at first, then realized the bat would be \$1.10. The article was interesting, considering it might be evidence of an aversion to thinking and reasoning to check a problem. That's definitely something I notice in my students...

3. ### czaczaMultitudinous

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Apr 7, 2015

Kids who aren't yet using algebraic thinking could solve this using a guess and check strategy. I guarantee I have at least three kids who could work through the bat and ball problem merely based on perseverance and good number sense.

4. ### a2zMaven

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Apr 7, 2015

They can only do so if they know how to comprehend the question which is a language and/or reading task that depends on a good understanding of grammar.

They have to understand that "a dollar more than the ball" doesn't mean a dollar. Those that don't comprehend language well and don't understand the comparison in that phrase will struggle to be able to do guess and check.

5. ### stephenpeConnoisseur

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Apr 7, 2015

All of our 5th grade teachers are teaching order of operations this year, We spent a lot of time on it. So wasnt my answer actually right with the slash instead of the other sign.

6. ### czaczaMultitudinous

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Apr 7, 2015

Read the OP's response to the question regarding the slash. Those of us who teach math basically interpreted the slash as 'divided by'.... But then again, I'd be hard pressed to know the rules to volleyball.

7. ### czaczaMultitudinous

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Apr 7, 2015

I guarantee I have at least 3 in my class who have the background knowledge and skills to solve the bat and ball problem. No doubt.

8. ### ChristyFModerator

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Apr 7, 2015

Wow....I don't view order of operations as life altering. I teach the location of the states, but I don't look down on someone who doesn't know them. By the way, when I was taught order of operations many years ago, I was taught that there was no varying. I completely understand the relationship between multiplication and division as well as adding and subtracting, but I was taught that PEMDAS was carved in stone, no reordering. Every text I taught out of said the same. It's only been in the past 2 or 3 years that I've learned different. I'm sure that means I'm lacking some how, but its not something I can change, so I live without shame. Personally, I have a problem with those type of posts, created to shame those who don't know the answer. I was an honor student in school, graduated college with honors, and continue my learning. Just because I may know some random fact/skill doesn't make me better than someone who doesnt.

9. ### czaczaMultitudinous

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Apr 7, 2015

ELA and math tend to be the tested , and asked about on interviews, subjects ( think standardized tests, assessments and screenings further on in life...where the 50 states are tend to be a bit of a parlor trick or questions Jeopardy, sadly , unless it's your area of expertise/ certification/job requirement)... Regardless of what we think, math and ELA are the 'big' areas in tems of elementary content....in middle school and above, all content areas just become more competitive. Regardless, Schools are looking for teachers who KNOW THEIR SHIP . Basic math operations are not considered a 'random' skill. And if someone wants to teach elementary, they betterhave a firm grasp on the content without having to google the most fundamental skills (PEMDAS being one). Teachers should KNOW what they are required to teach. I know where the counties in my state are because that's what I teach...I'm not required to know the twelve pairs of cranial neves ( I could guess a rough stab at them though)..but in terms of 'whats important' in school, there definitely is an emphasis on the 3 'R's...

And PEMDAS has ALWAYS viewed multiplication/division and addition/subtraction as inverse and equal operations. Without parentheses or other notation if what order to prioritize, inverse operations are threatened in a left to righ following PEMDAS

10. ### ChristyFModerator

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Apr 7, 2015

Everyone is most definitely allowed their own opinion. As I stated, I understand order of operations. However,I think telling someone it could be part of why they can't get a job is over the top. It's one math skill. My point wasn't in debating PEMDAS, nor in discussing "parlor tricks". it was to point out that maybe some perspective should come into play. By the way, in your school, I'm sure I'd be viewed as the fluff teacher; since I spend my day teaching science and social studies. However, at my school, I'm viewed as a valuable member of the staff and those kids do more thinking, problem solving, writing, collaboration, reading informational text etc with me than the ELA teacher. And they will be much more prepared to be well rounded citizens.

11. ### czaczaMultitudinous

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Apr 7, 2015

When one says on an interview they are best suited to be an upper elementary educator they should have a firm grasp on the content they will be teaching.

I'm sure there is NO DOUBT, Christy, that you are highly qualified to teach your specialzed content area. But if you weren't, that would be a reason to not hire you.

12. ### PeachynessVirtuoso

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Apr 7, 2015

I look forward to giving the baseball and bat problem to my fourth graders. We use Singapore math where they use model drawings to solve word problems. This will be a fun problem for them to practice their skill on. It'll be easy for them, but interesting for them to hear how Harvard students have struggled.

13. ### brosPhenom

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Apr 8, 2015

I took an Intermediate Algebra course, got a C+ in it, was granted a waiver to get into the education program, as they required a B-.

I was granted the waiver because if I had taken the course a semester later and gotten the same grade, it would've been considered a B- by the CC I attended - they introduced minus grades the spring after I started attending.

The Praxis I is not required for certification - but my university required it. I had accommodations for the math portion (use of a calculator & testing in a quiet environment) and I scored well on it.

Never gotten past the first stage of the interview process - so never taught a demo lesson.

My "Mathematics and Science in Education" course pretty much consisted of the professor having us do algebra problems every week - never going over how to actually teach math - just having us do math problems.

All of my math teachers always said it could not be rearranged ever, too.

After eighth grade, every teacher assumed you knew how to do it (along with something called cross multiplication - we were supposed to be taught in seventh grade, but the teacher said "Well, it's the last day of class, you can either watch this movie or come over to this table and learn cross multiplication." Guess what all of us seventh graders chose?)

Heck, my other math course (Math for the Liberal Arts Major) that dealt with logic was easier than the algebra course - other than the just plain odd division method that uses a box and different colors and lines - I find long division much easier - as long as I have a way to line it up properly.

I have not been asked many math questions in interviews. Usually language arts or behavior management questions are what I am asked. How odd.

14. ### Ms.BlankCompanion

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Apr 8, 2015

I would like to respectfully disagree.

Of course, this is a "what-if" scenario; a lot of things come into play here. All I was saying is that if a demo lesson had been taught by a candidate on PEMDAS, for example, and they incorrectly taught it (deviating from what is CURRENTLY accepted as correct in the math world), then yes, that could most definitely be the reason that a hiring committee didn't hire that particular candidate.

Christy, I in no way meant to imply that you weren't a good teacher. I am sure quite the opposite is true. I agree with you completely that at the end of the day, silly math rules aren't the most important thing...making sure our kids are the best people they can be is.

15. ### greendreamCohort

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Apr 8, 2015

It really is annoying when people try to use what is essentially a brain teaser to make a comment on educational institutions.