Math Subtest II Brain Dump

Discussion in 'Single Subject Tests' started by Malcolm, Sep 10, 2005.

  1. dougd46

    dougd46 Rookie

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    Oct 12, 2005

    Well now I need to apply for the NES refund for the Nov 5 tests, I just got my notice yesterday that I passed Subtest I and (this is really sad) I got 219 points with 220 needed to pass on Subtest II, so now I only need to retake the geometry test and study up on Stats/Prob. Well I'm part way there... but after teaching a math class here at Silverado High School in Victorville for the last week and 1/2, I am really wondering why I went through all this... this is a very thankless, poor paying, and totally disrespectfull job, these kids are not even interested in anything I might have to say, and they don't hesitate to let you know that they think this is all a big joke.

    doug
     
  2. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Oct 12, 2005

    Oh, Doug, I'm sorry: what a letdown that class must be for you. I assume you're subbing - not the easiest gig in the world to begin with, and, yes, adolescents CAN be little... um... SNOTheads.
     
  3. john_seed

    john_seed Rookie

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    Oct 13, 2005

    You can add more structure, but nothing will really help if there isn't support from administration.

    My wife taught summer school for incoming 9th graders. She had strict rules, and whenever she tried to enforce them, she was not backed up by the administrators. She would send kids to the office to "kick them out" for the day, only to have them sent directly back with no explanation.

    I work for the district and asked why these disruptive kids weren't just kicked out of summer school, and they said point blank that they needed the monies from the state.

    In a nutshell, the administration didn't give a squat about the other students in the class that were there for learning, but just wanted to get as much money as they could form the state to fund their salaries.

    It wasn't until I went to the director and told him that I was going to insist that my wife quit if something didn't happen that they did some shuffling of students.

    Don't be afraid to be a hard *** if you have to. Some of my best teachers in HS were one. Be fair, be honest with them, but don't be afraid to set your foot down. Don't be afraid of the administration. If you send a kid out of your class, and the principal sends him back, send him out again. Refuse to take him/her back unless the issue is dealt with.
     
  4. dougd46

    dougd46 Rookie

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    Oct 13, 2005

    no this is not subbing, I signed a contract for the year as a math teacher on a probationary credential, listed as an administrative (read "emergency") credential. I have to finish the student teaching and pass the CSET subtestII to get the real "probationary" credential... then that will last for 2 years, unless Arnold get's his way, then we are on probation for 5 years.
     
  5. Join Utah

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    Oct 13, 2005

    219 out of 220. I hate that so much. I haven't been there, I don't want to be. I like my 158 out of 220 for Subtest I Algebra much more. I totally missed the boat on that one! I got the official results back for Subtest II. 4/4 MC 2/4 FR. 4/4 Geometry and 4/4 Prob/Stats. 4 out of 4 on Stats??? And I was sweating that one!

    I hope after studying my second try in Algebra will be different in November.

    Dougd46, did you ever teach middle school? They can still be snotty, but being a hard butt (John's recommendation [I agree]) is easier to do in middle school.
     
  6. Malcolm

    Malcolm Enthusiast

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    Nov 6, 2005

    Ok, it is time again for anyone who took this subtest on Nov. 5 to share their experience, while avoid running afoul of their agreement with NESINC, ofcourse.
     
  7. dougd46

    dougd46 Rookie

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    Nov 6, 2005

    yes I took subtest II yesterday, after getting a 219 out of 300 on the last one (sept 10) with 220 needed to pass... ouch!! I did pass the subtest I last time so only took II yesterday and had plenty of time and feel very good about the possibilities. The hardest written response problem was a proof with areas under 3 different arcs, prove that these areas are equal to an equal lateral triangle. Hope that isn't saying too much.. oh I hope the NES cops don't get me.

    dd
     
  8. Malcolm

    Malcolm Enthusiast

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    Nov 6, 2005

    I'll pass on my experience by relating what I experienced with the subtest description as much as possible so I don't inadvertantly let out something I shouldn't.

    I'll start with the probability and statistics portion. It was a snap. The constructed response questions came right out of the subtest description: "know the method of least squares and apply it to linear regression and correlation." But that should be no suprise. The other big candidate for the constructed response questions is: "know and apply the chi-square test." I don't know if anyone got one on that this time around. But one certainly needs to be prepared for either one.

    The propability and statistics multiple choice questions were pretty trivial. There was one one "apply basic principles of permutations and combinations." There was one on the use of probability distributions relating to which distribution was most appropriate for the case at hand. Some of the options were other than the "normal, binomial, and exponential distributions" cited in the subtest guide. So, it seems that at least a passing familiarity with other distributions is warranted. And there were questions on sampling methods and sources of bias whick as far as I am concerned anyone with a reasonable head on their shoulders should be able to answer even without any training in statistics. It almost seems like the probability and statistics portion is meant as a freebie to help make up for the geometry portion.

    So, to sum up the probability and statistics portion, it was pretty much a subset of the material outlined in the subtest description, as expected.

    The geometry portion was a bit more trouble for me. I left one of the constructed response questions unanswered. It was a fairly simple proof related to "demonstrate an understanding of the basic properties of isometries in two- and threedimensional space (e.g., rotation, translation, reflection)" and possibly "use techniques in coordinate geometry to prove geometric theorems." And it was one I know how to do. I just drew a blank during the test. Maybe it had something to do with being a little under the weather on test day.

    There was a relatively simple constructed response proof on the congruence of two parts that involved three dimensions that seemed related to "demonstrate an understanding of parallelism and perpendicularity of lines and planes in three dimensions" in the subtest description.

    And there was a proof related to the relationship of the areas of a combination of different geometric shapes. I probably went about it the long way, but I did prove it.

    There was a question related to "know that variants of the Parallel Postulate produce non-Euclidean geometries (e.g.,
    spherical, hyperbolic)." Somehow, I expected this one.

    There was a question related to "justify and perform the classical constructions (e.g., angle bisector, perpendicular bisector,
    replicating shapes, regular n-gons for n equal to 3, 4, 5, 6, and 8)." I had boned up on the constructions and was hoping to get one in the constructed response area. But, no, I just had to justify one by selecting the appropriate theorem from a list.

    There were several questions related to "understand, apply, and justify properties of triangles (e.g., the Exterior Angle Theorem,
    concurrence theorems, trigonometric ratios, Triangle Inequality, Law of Sines, Law of Cosines, the Pythagorean Theorem and its converse).

    There were questions related to "understand, apply, and justify properties of polygons and circles from an advanced
    standpoint (e.g., derive the area formulas for regular polygons and circles from the area of a triangle)" and "understand, apply, and justify properties of three-dimensional objects from an advanced
    standpoint (e.g., derive the volume and surface area formulas for prisms, pyramids, cones, cylinders, and spheres)." But they didn't seem to be very advanced. It was basically a matter of knowing the formulas and how to apply them. If you get a test like I did, you'll definitely want to know how to compute the area, included angle and exterior angle of a regular n-gon, the volume of cones, pyramids, spheres, etc.

    There was one multiple choice question I know for a fact I got wrong. It had to do with the effect of a transformation, expressed in matrix notation, on the area of a figure. It is another one that I knew the answer to, but could not dreg up during the exam. And it is from an area I reviewed for Subtest I but not this one. The thing I could not remember is that the determinant of the matrix is equal to the change in the size of the area of the figure. In other words, if the determinant is 2, the transformation doubles the area. So, a review of transformations as matrixes is warranted when preparing. And it appears that any area of analytic geometry is fair game.

    There were a few questions where I was given an equation and had to answer something about the shape, like size of the shape, or size of something related to the shape, or how it related to some point.

    To summarize, the subtest description is a pretty concise one. There wasn't much on the test that was unexpected.

    That's about all I can remember at this time. If I think of anything else, I'll add it.
     
  9. Malcolm

    Malcolm Enthusiast

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    Nov 6, 2005

    dd,

    Sounds like we got the same question. FWIW, I spent more time on that one than I thought I should have. It was pretty obvious to me what had to be done in the proof. The problem was getting everything to come out right.
     
  10. CareerChanger

    CareerChanger Rookie

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    Nov 7, 2005

    Hmmm- based on your descriptions, I think I had the same test as well. For the FRQ - I also left the same question blank (or mostly blank) as you did - the rest of the FRQs seemed fairly straightforward although one question must have had a shorter approach than the one I took - it took me a page and a half to get through it!

    Overall, I feel a bit better about this one than I did subtest I, which I passed, although I still had to make educated guesses on some of the multiple choice questions. One of my biggest issues with these tests is the fatigue factor - after a couple of hours of testing - I feel exhausted. So I tried to do the FRQs first and then the easy MCQs, then the hard ones (were I might have to guess anyways). Of course, I woke up on Sunday morning thinking about some of the MCQs I struggled with - and they seemed so easy after a night of rest!

    I studied a lot (a lot!!!) for this test - and If I need to take it over again, I would study more transformational geometry.

    Fingers crossed for passing this test and now it is time to start studying Calculus!
     
  11. Malcolm

    Malcolm Enthusiast

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    Dec 5, 2005

    Woo Hoo!. Passed Subtest II. Guess Jay's observation that it generally takes older folks more tries than younger folks doesn't fit here...

    FWIW and to reiterate a successful strategy, my preparation for Subtest II was based on review of the material in Schaum's Geometry, the portions of Schaum's Precalculus relevant to analytic geometry, Barron's EZ 101 Study Keys Statistics, and memorizing the proofs called out in the Subtest Description and the Framework.
     
  12. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Dec 5, 2005

    Bravo, Malcolm!
     
  13. CareerChanger

    CareerChanger Rookie

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    Dec 5, 2005

    Passed!

    Congrats to all who passed!!

    I just found out I passed the November Subtest II! Yeah!! Subtest I and II are now in the history books.:D

    For Subtest II I studied "Geometry the Easy Way" and Schaum's Geometry. I checked out a book from the library on basic stats. I found subtest II to be less of a nail biter than Subtest I, but they were both hard. I had to study a lot for both of them! Glad I won't have to do them again. I am starting to study for ST III now - although I think I am rustier at calculus than I was at algebra/geometry and that is saying a lot :eek:

    Off to Celebrate!

    Lynn
     
  14. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Great job, CareerChanger!
     
  15. innovationguy

    innovationguy Cohort

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    Dec 5, 2005

    First, I am SUPREMELY DELIGHTED that you emerged trimphant! Bountiful felicitations are in order!!

    Still, as an AP Stat teacher [and a Mathematical Statistics Major], I deal with Probabilities [defined EMPIRICALLY as the relative frequency of the occurrence of an event in INFINITELY LARGE REPEATED OUTCOMES!] and Expected Values [defined again as the 'average' value assumed by a 'random' variable IN THE VERY LONG RUN!].

    Re "it generally takes older folks more tries than younger folks doesn't fit here... is an illustration of what stasticians call the Law of Small Numbers, akin to one swallow not making a summer, as the expression is!

    Since I am NOT associated with N.E.S, I do NOT have the 'population' figures to substantiate them; however, INTUITIVELY [and EMPIRICALLY - through my own interaction with HUNDREDS (repeat: HUNDREDS!) of candidates] I would assert that

    a. the relevant probabilities are CONDITIONAL:

    a. P(a chap passes the CSET, GIVEN that he was a young fellow) >>> P(a chap passes the CSET, GIVEN that he was an older chap, VERY loosely defined as >= early 40s)

    b. P(a chap was a young fellow, GIVEN that he passes the CSET) >>> P(a chap was an older gent, GIVEN that he passes the CSET )

    You shall observe - very carefully - the distinctions between the 2 Probabilities in a. and b. The GIVEN subsets are DIFFERENT!

    But, more to the point, I don't mean ANY disrespect to ANYONE when I adduce such hypotheses! Again, these are ONLY hypothesis, albeit somewhat well-founded: after all, neither of the aforementioned probability statements are particularly PROFOUND!

    b. If x and y denote 'random' variables representing Number of Attempts to Pass for

    - a Young Fellow, and
    - an Older Chap

    respectively, and E ~ Expected Value, then I would surmise

    E(x) <<< E(y)
    ...

    That ends my Statistics lesson for the day!

    Now that I've made myself UTTERLY INSUFFERABLE, I shall gingerly exit the building...

    Again, BRAVO on passing the CSET!

    Jay.
    http://innovationguy.easyjournal.com
     
  16. Join Utah

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    I'm telling you Jay, you don't have to defend yourself. The "comment" was just what us 30+-year-olds needed to become motivated.

    Whether you said it in jest or as-matter-of-fact is beside the point--we passed and that's all we need to know!

    (Besides, you lost me in that explanation.)
     
  17. innovationguy

    innovationguy Cohort

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    Dec 6, 2005

    (Besides, you lost me in that explanation.)

    But I never said I was ANY good, did I?!! It is a secret that the Heavens preserve well about how ANY of my kids pass the AP Exam!

    [Last year, I inaugurated the program, and 2 got a FIVE, but as I ALWAYS unhesitatingly declare, it was more on account of their intrinsic BRILLIANCE than my own fumbling competence - sometimes, I jest they passed IN SPITE of me...!]

    Jay.
     
  18. TeacherGroupie

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    Jay, isn't it fun when one has brilliant students who then try to give one all the credit?
     
  19. innovationguy

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    Right you are!!

    Rookie teachers - and dare I say it, even veterans! - are, not infrequently, threatened by the sparkle of certain students, such is their overpowering insecurity: semblance of competence is regarded as MORE vital than competence itself!

    One of the Sherlock Holmes stories has Mr. Holmes pontificate: Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself but talent instantly recognizes Genius! I don't profess to be extraordinarily talented, but I surely don't bear mediocrity as a blemish.

    Yes, it *is* titillating to be the recipient of kudos, however ill-deserved (!), especially if it has such scintillating students as its source! If they, astute as they are, perceive value in my work, then that is the sort of honor that fuels conceit! To puncture any such self-aggranding vanity, I would routinely and readily tell those AP 5 blokes that they would triumph without me still, that I was a mere mote, a speck in the eye of their universe!

    Nothing wins over Genius than Humility on the part of the Talented!

    Jay.
    http://innovationguy.easyjournal.com
     
  20. Malcolm

    Malcolm Enthusiast

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    Dec 6, 2005

    Good to hear from you again, Jay.
     
  21. tkhodges

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    Dec 8, 2005

    Cset I Ii

    Hello everyone this is my first time on this site. Well let me just say how nervouse I am about taking the SS I II. I have only gone as far as Algebra with math. I would like to teach middle school math. I have
    the study materials from the Orange COunty Dept of Ed. I was surprised that there was soooo much Calculas in there. I thought this was suppose to be foundational math. This has me even more worried. I really only want to teach math and maybe later some business courses.I'm going to take subset I next month just kind of see what I can expect and what my score will be after all of that guessing . Please help me with as much info as you can. I have read other messages and see where other people have passed. I know I probabl will not pass it on the first try and that's ok. I just don't want to take it 10 and 15 times.

    Signed
    please help
     

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