Math Praxis 5161

Discussion in 'Single Subject Tests' started by MrCoach615, May 12, 2016.

  1. RNSP

    RNSP Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2017
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    11

    Jul 5, 2017

    I would like to know someone to study together for Math 5161 close to Gettysburg PA.
     
  2. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    29

    Jul 6, 2017

    I don't live near there and probably everyone on this thread doesn't live near there.... Your best bet is to look at a post of mine on the previous page and look at the study materials I have listed.
     
  3. RNSP

    RNSP Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2017
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    11

    Jul 7, 2017

    Hi Ash G,
    Did you pass already in the test? I may should say we can study together by Skype or FaceTime it works too. I know a lot math my problem was the time and the kind of questions there. I'm slow may because English is my second language I really need more practice. Thank you so much for reply.
     
  4. RNSP

    RNSP Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2017
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    11

    Jul 7, 2017

     
  5. Gus2192

    Gus2192 Guest

    Jul 7, 2017

    Hi guys!
    I’m taking the Praxis 5161 next Saturday. I’m in State College PA. Is anyone interested in studying together?
     
  6. RNSP

    RNSP Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2017
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    11

    Jul 9, 2017

    Hi Gus2192,
    Yes, I'm. I did take one time and it was horrible because my time management. If you want we can try to schedule one time to exchange experience and answer some questions together. This is my email: renatansp @gmail . com. Best,
    Renata
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  7. Expo Markers

    Expo Markers Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    7

    Jul 12, 2017

    Hey everyone!

    I'm taking this in a month so I can student teach in the Spring. SC only requires a 150, which is some sweat off my back, but I have to take the PLT and the Math one within the same 4 day window. :/

    Everyone seems to have Cliffs, any other sources that you all recommend?
     
  8. Toya

    Toya New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 12, 2017

    What school in South Carolina , I'm also preparing to take the test next month in SC .
     
  9. Expo Markers

    Expo Markers Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    7

    Jul 12, 2017

    I'm at a women's college in the Upstate. For the sake of some anonymity, I'm not going to name it. You?
     
  10. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    29

    Jul 12, 2017

    Hey, RNSP

    I passed with a 169 which was the unofficial scaled score at the end of the test. It's almost a 100% guarantee what you get as an unofficial score at the end of the test will be your official score. To be honest, I'm on break from teaching so I'm not going to be able to study with you. I would get the new cliff notes book and work through that but also use the study guide given from the ETS site. The questions are not going to differ from the what the ETS study guide is asking for from you.
     
  11. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    29

    Jul 12, 2017

    Hey,
    Aim high and get that 160 mark!!!! That keeps options open if you ever want to teach in another state in the near future. It's probably about getting 3 or 4 more questions correct to get from a 150 to a 160. Use cliff notes and the study guide from ETS!! Don't stress and use your time wisely. If you can't answer a question in about 30 seconds and you know you need time..... MOVE ON!!!! I know it's hard to do but you have to do it.
     
    PrettyQueenBee and RNSP like this.
  12. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    12

    Jul 29, 2017

    It's been a little bit over a year since I've taken this exam. I'm the type of person who allows one bad experience to ruin it all. I had a conversation with my calculus professor and she really set me straight! I have the highest grade in the class, and she told me how shocked she was that I haven't attempted the test in over a year. Although I majored in Accounting, I've always been great at math. There were three types of math minors at my school. I chose the statistics minor. I conveniently ignored the minor with calculus in it. lol I decided to take some math courses (calculus) to sharpen my skills. When I took the test last year, the majority of it was calculus, which was my weakest area next to geometry. Algebra and probability/stats are my strengths. I do have a copy of the Cliff Notes 5161 book. I drew a blank on the calculus section, which is why I enrolled in courses. Not to mention, the VA pays for it, so I figured I might as well educated myself even more. I wouldn't recommend the book to people who haven't studied at math in years or those who don't know the basics. Luckily the majority of the book made sense to me. I'm taking Calc II this fall. Took Calc I this summer and got an A. I've been "stalking" the comment section here for a while, and I am genuinely happy for those who've finally passed. I can only imagine how much the process put a damper on you all mentally. 160 is too high in my opinion. Not to mention, there's not a long line of people who would like to teach math. My school district used to allow people to teach if they had at least 24 credit hours in a subject. Now, they want you to either have an actual degree in it or simply pass the test. There's over 20 math positions that need to be filled. It's crazy. I'm not sure when I will be attempting the test for a 2nd time, but I know it will definitely be before this year is up. One thing's for sure, these calculus classes have been helping me tremendously.

    Good luck to you all and a huge congrats to those who've passed this year!
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
    Ash G likes this.
  13. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    12

    Jul 29, 2017

    Y'all are lucky. SC used to require a 160 like the majority of the states who take the Praxis. I also saw that CO went down to a 150 as well. I wish TN would come down on their score! It's so dang annoying. One thing I am grateful for was that I was able to complete my student teaching regardless of the fact that I didn't pass my test. But I've heard the majority of programs don't offer this option. Either way, it sucks.
     
    Ash G likes this.
  14. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    29

    Jul 29, 2017

    There isn't that much in depth calculus on the exam and if you go to the study guide you don't need to know an entire course of Calculus 1 and 2. Just bits and pieces from Calc 1 and 2 should suffice. I would focus on the study guide to narrow down exactly what you need to know. Another piece of advice is to keep in mind the calculator situation that is on-screen now. There are questions like finding the line of best fit. You used to be able to plug all of the data into the calculator and you would get the line of best fit. Now the on-screen calculator doesn't allow you to do that. The interesting part is that I believe they would never ask a question like that of you to do considering you don't have the calculator to do it. Doing the line of best fit would take forever to do by hand anyways. You can throw out some questions that are similar to the line of best fit scenario in my opinion. Use the study guide and YouTube to figure out how to do similar problems from the study guide. There is only so much of calculus they can ask of you which is why you need to narrow it down from the study guide. Remember the magic number is to get 36 correct to guarantee you passed on any version. My first raw score was a 32 but I took an easier exam and got a 155 scaled. The second raw score for me was a 34 but I took a harder exam and got a 169 scaled. If you have any more questions I'm here to help. Take Care and Good Luck!!
     
  15. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    12

    Jul 29, 2017

    Ash, thanks for responding! The reason why I decided to take Calc classes is because I literally had ZERO Calc knowledge. I had to take Pre-calc II before they allowed me to take Calc I. If you asked me what a limit was last year, I would have looked at you like you asked me to borrow one of my designer bags. LOL. So it was a personal choice for me. I'm sure I don't need the extra classes, but they are free for me, so why not? Also, I wasn't too sharp on trig. I just knew the very basics. I think I messed up last year by making my own study guide, instead of following the one Praxis provided. I actually printed it out about 20 minutes ago. So I decided to go over the things I saw on the exam that I either forgot or didn't know, then start following the study guide and going through the Cliff Notes book. And I heard that they don't allow us to use calculators on the test anymore! It's like they want us to take up more time using that stupid calculator of theirs. Time management wasn't an issue for me when I took the first exam. Two questions: Was time management an issue for you due to the use of an on-screen calculator? Also, What methods did you use to study? I'm currently using a mixture of Khan, Math Is Fun, the Praxis study guide and the Cliff Notes book.
     
  16. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    29

    Jul 29, 2017

    Time management was tough for me both times. I just had to keep moving on if the problem didn't stick out at me right away. The calculator they make you use is kind of a pain but isn't unbearable. It takes a little more time to use than the TI-83 because you have to keep clicking around etc. You definitely want to be familiar with the calculator before using it. You can use a trial version for 90 days so when you plan on taking the test again make sure to start the trial. I understand what you're saying with the calculus and it definitely can be abstract. The resources you used sound similar to what I used. There are also two practice exams that ETS sells and I would buy those as well.
     
  17. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,911
    Likes Received:
    1,104

    Jul 30, 2017

    PrettyQueenBee, I am happy that you are taking more math courses and have achieved success. Great job!

    However, as a math teacher who: 1) majored in Math as an undergrad at a UC school and went on to get a Masters in Mathematics Education, 2) passed the CSET Math Single Subject Subtests I, II, and III, as well as 3) passed the Praxis 5161 -- all on the first attempt -- I think all potential math educators should be required to demonstrate their subject matter competency. By your own admission, when you were sitting for the test you did not know what a limit was, weren't good at trigonometry, etc. This is not acceptable if you plan on teaching high school mathematics. You should have extensive knowledge of all of those areas before you ever set foot in a math classroom, even if you plan to teach only Algebra 1 and Statistics.

    You do realize that, for example, the probability model for a geometric distribution is that of an infinite series so even though it may not seem like the probabilities sum to one when written out on a table, they actually do because in a geometric setting we count the number of failures until the first success, and so you theoretically can have an infinite number of failures. This means that it is an infinite geometric series, so we need to find the sum of the series to show the probabilities sum to one. This formula is often taught in Pre-Calculus and beyond. Finally, most statistical formulae are derived using calculus.

    This is one major issue that a lot of people in this forum fail to realize. There needs to be a greater standard for math teachers because if they can't pass the test themselves, then they shouldn't be instructing other students when their understanding is minimal at best.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  18. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    29

    Jul 30, 2017

    I agree with you partially when it comes to taking math classes above and beyond what you teach. To be 100 percent honest with you I could have taught my remedial math class when I graduated high school. I have taught Algebra 1 Part 1 and Honors Geometry for two years now. Algebra 1 Part 1 is my remedial math class. If you're proficient in Pre-Calculus you obviously should know your Algebra inside and out. The problem is I think math majors take TOO MUCH MATH. I don't need Advanced Calculus (Calculus after Calc 3) to teach either of the courses that I have taught. Even if I was asked to teach Calculus 1 and 2 I still wouldn't need Advanced Calculus. This is why there is a shortage for math teachers is because how much is required to become a math teacher in most states. Here in Virginia we are so low on math teachers you can just take the Algebra 1 Praxis and teach Algebra 1....... Wait, so I went to school for all this math to basically teach Geometry up to this point and possibly Calculus or AP Stats? The Praxis 5161 is an unfair exam due to time. If you were given more time I think it would be fair. Math isn't something you can just answer right away and it takes time to think and problem solve. Obviously tests need to be timed BUT if you're going to ask 60 questions given 2.5 minutes per question and you're not grading ten of the 60 then I just don't think that's fair. I was under the gun both times I took the test and I know my content. I graduated with a 3.0 overall in my math courses and took an honors math course in college due to doing so well in Calculus 1. If I had another 20 minutes I would have definitely scored higher because the problems started clicking after some thought. To teach HS math you don't need Real Analysis or Abstract Algebra which a lot of schools require. Unless you're going for your Master's Degree or PhD. in pure math it's beating a dead horse at that point lol.
     
    PrettyQueenBee likes this.
  19. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,911
    Likes Received:
    1,104

    Jul 30, 2017

    I can see where you are coming from but I will have to respectfully disagree. You use elements of the higher math courses to explain why theorems and formulae work in lower-level classes. You need to be able to not only state WHAT the correct answer is, but WHY that answer is what it is. The advanced students will always ask why and how. For example, students are typically taught that any number raised to the zero power is one, but they have no idea WHY.

    Here is what I show my students when we do the unit on integer exponents:

    Let "a" be any number, except zero (i.e. a =/= 0).

    Then 1 = a/a, because any number divided by itself is one. Also, I explain here why "a" is nonzero because you cannot divide by zero (I show them this proof earlier in the course).

    We can rewrite a/a as a rational expression (i.e. a fraction) with multiplicity of one, so we have:

    1 = a/a = a^1/a^1.

    Using the negative exponent rule, we know that 1/x^n = x^(-n), where x is a constant and n is a natural number. Thus, we get:

    1 = a/a = a^1/a^1 = a^1*(1/a^1) = a^1*a^(-1).

    Recall that when we multiply like bases we add exponents [e.g. 2^2 = 2*2 = 2^1*2^1 = 2^(1+1) ]. By this method, we obtain:

    1 = a/a = a^1/a^1 = a^1*a^(-1) = a^[1 + (-1)] = a^0, which is what we wanted to prove. That is, that any number, save for zero, raised to zero power, is equal to one. QED

    NOTE: This is the type of work that you are expected to show on the FRQ section for the CSET Math Single Subject Subtests.

    Short story long, you need to know the ins and outs of every type of scenario that students might encounter in the course. Merely stating that they just need to memorize a^0 = 1 is not enough, nor stress understanding.

    Here's yet another example: When students learn about the different sets of numbers (real numbers, whole numbers, integers, etc.) they are often confused why certain sets are "larger" than other sets. This is when I bring up the concept of cardinality (size) of sets and that if a set can be put into one-to-one correspondence with another set, then the sets are said to be equivalent (in size). To demonstrate, the set of real numbers has a greater cardinal number, that is, has more elements, than all of the other subsets of numbers, so it is largest. Again, we are discounting complex numbers here because they are not taught until the second semester in Algebra 2.

    Are you starting to see how knowing higher-level mathematics is necessary? It is what sets apart a good math teacher from a bad one.

    FYI, I managed just fine on the Praxis 5161 and had about 30 minutes to spare when all said and done. I used this to go back and check my answers. I think my score was like 194, if I remember correctly, and I did not study beforehand at all. Do you want to know how I did that? Because I KNOW the math through and through. The rest just fell into place. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  20. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    12

    Jul 31, 2017

    You could have saved your faux compliment at the beginning. Let me give you a little background: In undergrad, I majored in accounting and minored in math (and Spanish). I never made anything less than a B in any of my math courses (high school or college). I tested out of College Algebra and was able to go straight into MATH 1830 (Elementary Calc), which was a class required by the College of Business. My professor in 1830 was a woman who inspired me and she's the reason I minored in math and love it so much. Although I chose the statistics track for my math minor, let's not act as if it was a walk in the park. I chose stats because I was great at it and it flowed with my accounting degree. I can't tell you how many times I've used stats when I worked for the government (and for supply chain companies) in accounting. I will admit, I was a little intimidated by calc because it "looked" hard. But once I got in Pre-calc and Calc I, I breezed through them both with no problems. I earned A's in both classes and I'm sure I'll do the same for Calc II (I heard this was the hardest of the 3) & III, Linear Algebra and Differential Equations. WHY? Because I KNOW math and more importantly I LOVE math. One of the smartest women I know in mathematics failed the test 4 times before passing many moons ago. Mind you, the required score was lower back in those days. I say all of that to say: My understanding of math is not minimal at best. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion just because I admitted to not knowing what a limit was before taking classes. Also, I'm not the first math teacher to teach math without a math degree, and trust me I won't be the last.

    Oh and I almost forgot! The *real* reason I am taking these math courses is because I got accepted into LSU's M.S.- Mathematics program. Naturally, they require those classes before a student takes the actual courses for the masters program. Now how did little ole Bee get into the program without Calc, LA, or DE or a degree in math? They took one look at my transcript, saw the amazing grades in those 24 hours of math credits, and the rest was history. Louisiana requires a 160 just like TN. And Louisiana has such a high need of math teachers that they're willing to hire me since I've taken so many math courses.

    I've only taken the test ONCE. Give me a break dude. Not only will I get that 160 and continue to teach, but once I finish my masters I may become an Instructional Facilitator, a PLC Coach (google it), a college professor (something you're still wishing to become), or even a statistician for Ford Motor Company! Nothing is impossible darling.

    You don't have to come on this forum and get nasty and arrogant. This is the first nasty comment I've seen since I've been stalking this website. And it's really such a shame, especially since our ultimate goal should be to educate the youth and prepare them for the long road ahead of them. Just because someone mastered their content test on the first try doesn't make them a great teacher. It simply means that person mastered the content test. Notice how your comments hold nothing of true substance. Just a bunch of meaningless examples on math. I'd hate to take you at any level. Nothing worse than a teacher who's full of him/herself.

    As we say in the south: Bless your heart!
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  21. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,911
    Likes Received:
    1,104

    Jul 31, 2017

    The only one who was mean and nasty was you. And my username was something I chose years ago when I joined the website. A name is not reflective of one's current station in life. It was just when I was getting started in my career. The point I was trying to make, which you seemed to have missed, is that math teachers should have to demonstrate they know *enough* to teach the material to their students. They should be proficient in the very least at it. The Praxis 5161 is the qualifier, similar to licensing exams for any career show you *actually* can apply what you have learned.

    There seems to be a common theme in this country where people complain about standardized tests -- which test minimal understanding at best -- and then the tests gets dumb downed or eliminated outright. Case in point, in the state of California, community colleges are thinking of getting rid of math placement exams and the algebra 2 requirement altogether because they are "too hard."

    And by the way, my initial compliment still stands. I am happy you have achieved success in your career. Really. I did not say you were a bad student or question your credentials. I merely stated that math teachers need to be held to a higher standard and they should be. However, your comment, "Just a bunch of meaningless examples on math," is very telling and speaks to your lack of understanding. And it's funny that you mentioned arrogance because your post was fraught with it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2018
  22. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    12

    Jul 31, 2017

    Ash, the same applies here in Tennessee. You can take the Praxis for Algebra I and teach 8th or 9th graders. A lot of middle schools down here are starting to offer Algebra I in the 8th grade. But of course all schools still offer it in the 9th grade. Also, you're right about not needing advanced math to teach high school math. During my student teaching, I taught Geometry 1-B, Pre-Calculus Honors (the irony lol), and ACT PREP. My first Pre-Calc lesson was on Vectors (which I love). I took the book home, taught myself, and made an awesome lesson plan. I even had students come to me and tell me how much my lesson helped them with their AP Physics class, because they didn't understand Vectors when she taught it to them. Crazy how the student teacher who's understanding of mathematics "is minimal at best" was able to teach 12th graders the same lesson they couldn't comprehend when a teacher who's been teaching for 15+ years reviewed it a few weeks earlier. As I stated previously, just because someone is a wiz at their content doesn't make them a great teacher. Not only do you need to know the content, but you also need to be able to TEACH it. There's a major difference. My math teachers in high school were horrendous. I'm a smart girl and I love numbers, so I was able to still get good grades in those classes. Luckily, my math professors were all amazing!
     
  23. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    12

    Jul 31, 2017

    Oh, blah blah blah! I understood every single word you typed. It was just boring and irrelevant. That's all. I said the examples were meaningless because you decided to show off (in a boring way might I add) instead of 1.) Sharing how you've used your knowledge in math to educate your students and help them overcome their fears of the subject or 2.) Sharing what YOU did to prepare for the licensure exams.

    That's what I would have done.... instead of coming online and being negative. One of my *many* goals as an educator is to help my babies overcome their fear of math and to fall in love with it. Just like my 1830 professor did for me and many others. Seems like your goal is just to walk around spewing out random math equations to whoever will listen. lmao

    You can't be "happy" for someone, but turn around and say the things you said. I'm the Queen of nice nasty. Your original comment was very nice nasty. But I can take it just as much as I can dish it. You can keep your faux happiness. It came from a negative place.

    Nothing about my response was arrogant. Stating "not only will I get that 160" = confidence.... You know... speaking things into existence. Because I truly do believe in myself. I always knew this profession (and subject) was meant for me. If only I had a dollar every time a student told me they understood my teaching better than the teacher I was teaching under... I wouldn't be working right now. Instead, I'd be on vacation with my feet up. THAT along with other factors motivate me and give me the confidence to get that 160.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  24. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,911
    Likes Received:
    1,104

    Jul 31, 2017

    If this is your regular personality then maybe you shouldn't be in charge of students for a living. Good grief. If your students get you this out of whack, then I would hate to see how you handle their misbehavior.

    My examples may be meaningless to YOU, but they still have meaning to other math educators who recognize the importance of higher-level maths. And when you said, "instead of 1.) Sharing how you've used your knowledge in math to educate your students," I did *exactly* that by providing two examples of how I furthered my student's understanding. I think there is a disconnect here.

    In fact, my math students score the highest on their SAT/ACT in our entire county, which has a population of 425,000 people and they score in the 80th percentile on standardized tests year after year. I am told by admin, students, and parents alike that I am appreciated because I take the time to actually explain the math in a clear and concise way, unlike their previous teachers who barely understood the material themselves or were learning it for the first time alongside the students. Teachers like those have no business in the classroom. It makes me very angry when I see students' educations suffer because of inadequate instruction. I take my job very seriously and do my absolute best to ensure my students attain mastery in my classroom. The same should be said for any other teacher.
     
  25. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    12

    Jul 31, 2017

    I was hesitant on purchasing the ETS study guides because I've read some comments saying it didn't help. But just because it didn't work for them doesn't mean it won't work for me. I didn't go all out the first time I took 5161. This time around I'm willing to pull out all stops to get the coveted 160. It's 5AM in the morning and I'm excited to take the test again. Guess futuremathsprof is good for something other than repeating math facts like a robot after all. I got a 143 on my first try. Just imagine if I had the Calc knowledge I had now. ;-)
     
  26. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,911
    Likes Received:
    1,104

    Jul 31, 2017

    I know you will get that 160, PrettyQueenBee, because you are very driven and sound like a reasonably intelligent person. It is my hope that you get much higher than that! If you are this keen about learning maths then your students will benefit immensely because they will pick up your passion. You've got this and I'm rooting for you, even though it may not think I am.

    Wishing you the best! :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  27. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,911
    Likes Received:
    1,104

    Jul 31, 2017

    Double post.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  28. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    12

    Jul 31, 2017


    I’m in charge of you right now. That’s all that matters.

    I had zero issues with my students in regard to behavior. I’m from an urban neighborhood just like they are! So, I was able to connect with them and get them to understand that Ms. Bee does not tolerate disrespect or interruptions. Unlike the robotic math teacher down the hall who was fresh out of grad school with a 177 on the 5161 exam. Those kids ran her crazy. So much for a high level of content knowledge, huh? Lmao


    The students I taught came to class excited to learn. The principal was very impressed with my classroom management skills and my ability to reach the kids in ways a new teacher couldn’t. He gave awesome feedback to my school when I was done with student teaching and even recommended me!


    There you go again…. Spewing out meaningless, worthless, irrelevant words. The Valedictorian of my class made a 30 on the ACT and dropped out of a college a year later. Too bad those teachers of hers with all of that content knowledge couldn’t teach her a thing or two about how to survive in college. Sounds familiar? You just can’t help but to be robotic. I’m bored!


    Enjoy the rest of your day dollface.
     
  29. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    12

    Jul 31, 2017

    Sarcasm isn't your strong suit. Stick to something I have minimal knowledge in: Mathematics
     
  30. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,911
    Likes Received:
    1,104

    Jul 31, 2017

    Please look up the words "non sequitur" in your free time. You, too, have a great day and good luck studying! :)
     
  31. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    12

    Jul 31, 2017

    No need to look up something I already know the meaning of. Still irrelevant. Thanks anyway
     
  32. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,911
    Likes Received:
    1,104

    Jul 31, 2017

    Oh, the irony...
     
  33. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    29

    Jul 31, 2017

    Wake up to guns being fired lol. Future I would have to agree with Pretty with where she is coming from to an extent. There really isn't a need for you to explain a proof or what you do above and beyond in your classes for when a student asks why. Especially when we are on a Praxis 5161 forum chat. You can get a 200 on the Praxis showing your understanding of the content and that still wouldn't show you're a great teacher. The problem with content is you can know all the content in the world but if you don't know how to convey it (most of my math professors) then what is so great about that? Obviously you need to know your stuff but a math professor with a PhD. knows even more. Math professors get their PhD. and don't even take an education course at all. Does that make sense to you lol? They just know so much math content they get their professor position. You need to have an understanding of content obviously but also be able to convey it. Math professors have all the content in their mathematical arsenal and could fill up a board with proofs. My one professor did that the entire semester...... Theorem, proof, example.... We weren't tested on the proofs thankfully and needed to know the examples in class and on the HW. Back to the Praxis scores and Future congrats on the 194 because that's a solid score and Pretty YOU WILL get higher than that 143. Keep pushing through and if you any questions I think everyone in the forum is here to help!! Even Futuremathsprof lol
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  34. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,911
    Likes Received:
    1,104

    Jul 31, 2017

    Yes, students aren't tested on the proofs for the most part, but they help foster greater understanding and fluency. Just saying here's the Pythagorean Theorem, plug in the numbers, and memorize it only works for right triangles is not enough. And you will find that students will forget if you don't make sure to explain everything fully.

    And actually, AshG, students are tested on proofs heavily in geometry and have to do certain proofs in Calculus (for example, delta-epsilon proofs). Not to mention, AP Statistics students are expected to be able to provide context to their calculations on the AP test, meaning they not only have to give a numeric answer, but explain the mathematics and justify their work. The same can be said for certain FRQs on the AP Calculus exams.

    Students don't understand a lot of the time why they're doing what they're doing and aren't making the associations like they should. I have been told time and time again by my students through email and word of mouth that they understand things better when I explain everything and it shows in their test scores. I have a proven track record and my students exceed the state benchmarks year and year.

    And yes, a good test score doesn't automatically make one a good teacher. However, why can't you be "both a math wiz" and score high on the test AS WELL AS be a good teacher? Why can't you have both? I don't think they are mutually exclusive.

    There is a strong positive correlation between SAT/ACT scores and student success in college. After all, they are aptitude tests and they are designed to measure success. And I know that correlation does not causation; however, students with higher SAT/ACT scores are much *more likely* to do well than their peers who score below the national average (i.e. don't meet the cutoff). The same can be said of teachers who can't pass the Praxis 5161 or other state certification tests. Now, I am not saying any of you are bad teachers or can't pass. That's not what I am saying at all. I believe that you all have the capability to do well, and the ability to learn. We all have bad days and bad tests. BUT, you still should have to demonstrate, convincingly, that you have command of the subject matter. There needs to be a standard (160) for all teachers that shows you *know enough* to teach mathematics at the high school level. Again, this does not that indicate that you are necessarily a good teacher. That is what you're student teaching, TPAs, and classroom observations are for.

    Memorization does not stress understanding. I give my students challenging problems all the time and they are that much better for it. I still get emails from students that say I made college math and science so easy for them because my classes are so rigorous and in some instances, more difficult than their college math classes, lol. I have a high expectation for all of my students. BUT, I don't just drone on and on like some college professors I've seen. I am lively, up and about, I crack jokes, and I get the students involved with fun and engaging tasks. I am not monotonous at all. Proofs are still necessary, though. For example, did you know that students do algebraic proof all the time? They may not always write the reasoning (symmetric property, subtraction property of equality, etc.) for each step, but they certainly show the steps when they do the algebra -- that's algebraic proof. That is an entire unit in geometry! :)

    Final note: Colleges, universities, and employers have said that today's middle school and high school math students are generally unprepared and I am inclined to agree with them. When students first arrive to my classroom, they do not work well in groups, they can't do simple arithmetic, they don't know their multiplication tables like they should, they can't come to accurate solutions on their own, they lack number sense, and they hadn't mastered previous course material. By the time they leave my classroom, my students are able to do most or nearly all of those things and then some. And that is because I challenge them and make them justify their answers.

    Anyway, good luck studying and I wish you the best of luck in all that you do AshG! You will eventually beat this test! I know it. The same goes for you all who are struggling. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. :)
     
  35. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    29

    Jul 31, 2017

    It sounds like you teach a different caliber student. Do you teach at an all white, middle to upper class school where most of the students are interested in actually learning? You have to keep in mind who you're teaching. I have kids that have failed math from 6th grade all the way through 8th grade and then get to high school not having the tools. Teach a kid who doesn't know how to add/subtract integers, combine like terms, can't do arithmetic by hand, etc. What the kids fail to realize is that we don't keep passing them on in HS. We have kids that are seniors who haven't passed Algebra 1/Geometry who don't graduate because of math.
    It's going to be hard to show a kid a fancy Pythagorean Theorem Proof if they don't have the tools to understand it. I'm glad you make your class rigorous because it seems like your students grasp the material quickly. A lot of high school is plug and chug with memorization of formulas. I never was shown a proof of Pyth Thm. until college and I was a great student in HS. I used Pyth. Thm. in Calculus and knew how to use it never seeing a proof of it. Just because you have never seen a proof of the formula or how it's derived doesn't mean you can't use it in a math problem. Like I said before if I had enough time I would go way more in depth with deriving formulas but there just isn't enough time. Plus my clientele isn't up to par to go extremely in depth of the math behind the scenes.

    PS: I passed my test with a 169..... No more studying for me :)..... I'm just here to help people on this forum that need insight on how to pass the test.
     
  36. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    12

    Jul 31, 2017

    My point exactly. I teach at an urban school where many of them don't have the perfect household, others are teen parents, working two jobs, don't have a stable home, etc. I even have students who are adopted and are currently struggling to adjust. You think being a "wiz" in your content area (alone) is going to help them do well in the course? Let alone be motivated to even come to school. I can't stand teachers who think teaching cookie cutter students is the norm. It's far from the truth. That's why I put emphasis on connecting with students on a deeper level. When you teach at the type of school I teach at, the kids need much more than content. You have to be their teacher, mother, counselor, aunt, father, etc. The things some of these kids are going through bothers me. And I can identify with them because I didn't have the perfect upbringing either. That's why my life experiences, larger-than-life personality AND my content knowledge makes me the perfect teacher for them. Imagine if I were one of those robotic teachers. A lot of the kids are eager to learn... they just don't have anyone who truly believes in them. More teachers need to learn how to connect with the type of students they teach. Take a ride around their neighborhood and get to know them. I applaud any teacher (regardless of content area) who teaches inner city kids. I'm sure they can easily go to some uppity private school. Teaching is all about SERVICE.... Hence why the Perkins Loan will forgive your entire loan. Some of us are doing a service by teaching in a high needs content area at "low income" schools. Although state benchmark scores will hold a lot of weight in terms of what level the district will score you, what are YOU (not you specifically, Ash lol) doing to SERVICE your students? And if the only answers you can come up with is they learned proofs they probably won't see again, high benchmark exam scores and high ACT/SAT scores, you're in the wrong field. And I don't care what anyone says.

    I have teachers who not only taught me how to master the content, but taught me life lessons that I still follow. My 2nd grade teacher passed away from Cancer recently. I went to her funeral... that's how close we were. She taught me to never give up, and she is the reason why I write in journals. In the 2nd grade, we had to write every single day in our composition book. She knew about the things I was going through at a young age and she encouraged me. She even came to my college graduation... in a wheelchair and all. NOW THAT'S a teacher. I strive to be like Ms. Harms, along with many other of my teachers who've influenced me. I want to be remembered as Ms. Bee- the teacher who knew her math like the back of her hand AND taught them how to survive in this chaotic world. Not Ms. Bee- the android who can spit out any proof in a millisecond. Please lmao

    Now can we please go back to discussing 5161? Because I have a few questions concerning the calculator and test windows.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  37. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    29

    Jul 31, 2017

    What questions about the calculator? Did you download the trial version and watch the youtube videos?
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  38. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,911
    Likes Received:
    1,104

    Jul 31, 2017

    Congratulations Ash G, well done! That is great to hear that you passed! :)
     
    Ash G likes this.
  39. RNSP

    RNSP Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2017
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    11

    Aug 5, 2017

    I have Always hard time taking test and it did not show what you know. If I have more I may answer 90% of the questions there. I'm using the cliffsnotes and I got a lot good advise from Ash G. I'm answer Can you... from the test website Math knowledge we should have. English is not my first language so I'm slow to read and answer the questions. It did not prove what anyone know. PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT DO YOU THINK THE LAST TEST YOU TAKE ASK MORE ABOUT. Mine in May had a lot word problem with speed acceleration. Let focus in help each other here. Thanks Ash. G and everyone who takes your time to answer my e-mail. Wish you all the best. I will take the test in August 18.
     
  40. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    12

    Aug 5, 2017

    I haven't had time, but I made note of it in my planner. I got a job teaching at the same school I did my student teaching. So I've spent the last 3 days at campus all day setting my room up. I'll be teaching Algebra I and ACT PREP. My question for the calculator: Is it a full scientific calculator? Like... Can it do everything that my TI-84 Plus CE can do? When I took the test in 2016, they allowed the use of personal calculators, so I never had to download the trial version. I took the test 2 months before they changed the calculator rules. They are so dang petty. lol

    Today, I randomly took a practice test in the Cliff Notes book, and I got 68%, which scaled at 165. Of course it's not the actual test, but it's a confidence booster. Especially since I haven't studied as much as I should. I didn't really study like I should have the first time I took it, so I don't want to let that happen again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. miakook,
  2. Seamingly_
Total: 337 (members: 3, guests: 312, robots: 22)
test