Lying About Observation Hours

Discussion in 'General Education' started by JustMe, Dec 7, 2008.

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Would you sign that a person observed you if they didn't?

  1. Yes, it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

    1 vote(s)
    1.2%
  2. No, that is cheating.

    64 vote(s)
    78.0%
  3. Perhaps, if they are my colleague.

    3 vote(s)
    3.7%
  4. Perhaps, if I know they are very busy or have good reasons to have not completed the hours.

    15 vote(s)
    18.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    A person asks you to sign a document saying thay observed you for a college class. They didn't. Your response?

    I'll explain my purpose after a few thoughts are posted.
     
  2.  
  3. Go 4th

    Go 4th Habitué

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    No I would not sign. There is a reason they want people to observe. It is a learning experience and no matter what reason they have, they should just be up front about it. If they can't make it that particular day, then they need to reschedule.

    The topic is a sore one for me, cause lots of my classmates cheated in these areas when I was in school. Yes, it can seem like a simple thing and that you aren't missing much, but you are!! As a first year teacher, i still have to go and observe others for our new teacher program. It is a valuable resource!
     
  4. trayums

    trayums Enthusiast

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    I wouldn't sign either. Puts you in a really bad predicament!!!
     
  5. old-new teacher

    old-new teacher Comrade

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    I would never put someone in the position of lying for me...so I certainly wouldn't condone someone else doing it either.
     
  6. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    I'm a professional. My signature on a form MEANS something. I wouldn't sign something that wasn't true...
     
  7. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    I would invite him in to see me at that moment.

    I have my share of faults, but I don't lie.
     
  8. SaraFirst

    SaraFirst Cohort

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    I wouldn't sign either. Although, when you think about it, a person dishonest enough to ask someone to sign something that isn't true might be dishonest enough to just forge your signature later. Hopefully not!
     
  9. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    As CzaCza said, my signature on a form means something, and I'm not about to tarnish my own character to help somebody else cheat. Beside that, there's a reason the program has students observing teachers. I STILL observe other teachers and I've been teaching at some level for 7 years.
     
  10. sevenplus

    sevenplus Connoisseur

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    I can't think of a situation where that would be acceptable.

    ETA: Okay, I think I'd be fine with post #11 below. 19 out of 20 hours and an out-of-your-hands situation.
     
  11. dizzykates

    dizzykates Habitué

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    I agree with Alice, I wouldn't sign, but I would ask when they are planning on coming in to watch and offer up a time right then.

    Justme, what are you wondering?
     
  12. futureiowateach

    futureiowateach Rookie

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    This is going to make me look terrible, but... When I was a freshman I had to observe a classroom for 20 hours, and on the final day I was at 19 hours and my teacher did sign saying I observed for 20. The reason? They had a last minute early out due to weather and it was the last day I could do it for the term and it was the week that was assigned to me by the college to observe... So yes, my teacher and I lied... But at times (like in this situation) I think it may be acceptable particularly if you are signing just an extra hour vers an entire observation time and if situations beyond the students control cause the student to not be able to complete an hour.
     
  13. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    In that case, I might for that extra hour if you really did try to make it. Especially if you were dutiful the rest of the semester.
     
  14. futureiowateach

    futureiowateach Rookie

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    I was there... but the elementary school I was observing at decided to close an hour early that day!
     
  15. Mrs. R.

    Mrs. R. Connoisseur

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    I think that is a special circumstance; you were there and had they not closed early, you would have had that hour. That is about the only circumstance that I would fudge an observation record.
     
  16. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Funny, 5 people in the survey responded they would sign off on this but offered no explanation in a post...
     
  17. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    I would not sign it they never came. If they were supposed to observe 60 minutes and were there only 55, then, yes, I'd sign.
    While student teaching, I technically did not fulfill the day requirements. We had 4 snowdays and I had a sinus infection with a doctor's note excusing me for three days (I only took off one though). I missed 5 days and there were only 3 extra built in before the end of the college semester. So, I was 2 days shy of meeting the requirement. But, everyone signed off on it. I had went in for an hour here and there before starting (I was second semester) and was there until 7/8pm countless times. No one thought it was a big deal. I can't control the weather!
     
  18. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    I answered No and my post was deleted.
     
  19. Tasha

    Tasha Phenom

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    I wouldn't sign. I can see in the emergency one hour away thing and we have had some special circumstances because of hurricanes, but being busy with a job doesn't cut it. I did have a ST who observed her hours in 3 sittings instead of 5, but the actual hours still balanced. She had a full time job and it worked much better for her to come in 3 long days instead of 5 short days. The class called for observing different subjects anyway, so she would have come at different times of the day. Also, I knew the professor and professor checked first anyway ;)
     
  20. each1teach1

    each1teach1 Cohort

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    Depends on the situation. For the most part, I would say no, but when I was doing my observation hours, I had the whole 19 hours vs. 20 hours situation come up. My mentor teacher signed saying that I'd been there 20 when I'd only completed 19 including lunch when I wasn't actually observing. I was willing to come one more day to make up this missed time, but he signed off anyway because he knew that I was driving two hours each way to come observe him and on one day I came to observe and he wasn't there even though I'd told him advance that I would be there. So I think he signed off because he felt bad about sort of wasting my time.
     
  21. DHE

    DHE Connoisseur

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    Dec 8, 2008

    If someone was has been obserivng diligently and fall short an hour or two then I would sign. If they had not come at all or they are too lazy to come then I would not sign.
     
  22. Hoot Owl

    Hoot Owl Aficionado

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    Shame on whomever asked!
     
  23. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    If it were a circumstance like the 19 hours and you needed 20, and it was completely out of your hands, then I think I would sign.

    If the student is just trying to get out of observing, then no, I would not sign.
     
  24. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    99.9% of the time, I would NOT sign, but I agree w/ stg in a way. If let's say we only hv 1 or 2 days left of student teaching & for some strange reason, the CT did poor planning & couldn't squeze me in & there was only an hour left to observe, that's a little different.

    Overall, I'd want feedback & constructive criticism, so I'd want to be observed.
     
  25. Danny'sNanny

    Danny'sNanny Connoisseur

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    Like others have said - there's a difference between students making a real effort to complete all their hours and those that never (or rarely) show up.

    For my 72 hour preschool practicum, I was placed in two classrooms. The aide in one classroom had to leave in April, so they hired me to help finish out the year. All of a sudden, the hours I was spending at the school had doubled, but I couldn't count them as practicum hours (because I was getting paid). So I was having to go to the second classroom every spare minute I had.

    By the last week of school, I was still 2 hours short. The teacher signed off on it.
     
  26. JaimeMarie

    JaimeMarie Moderator

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    Two years ago my mentor was suppose to observe me three times. She observed me once. Which left it so last year my new mentor had to observe me five times. She made time in her schedule to observe me and write it all up. I would expect everyone else to do the same if they had agreed to do it.
     
  27. blessedhands

    blessedhands Comrade

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    Well I never asked any teacher to do such thing but if it was me, it would depend on the situation. My CT signed 1 hour for me when I had completed 39 of my required 40. I came in that day to observe. She said she knew it was finals time and plus she was administering a test to the students. She told me that I could stay for a while and then sneak out quietly. I ended up staying for 35 mins within that hour. She signed my paper (of my last hour) and bid me adieu.

    I personally have seen girls in my school have teachers sign off on hours like lunch time, down time, all sorts of things and I see it as cheating. I could never see my self doing such things. All my life I work for what I wanted. I never saw a need to cheat. I do my time...I earn my grade.
     
  28. Canadian Gal

    Canadian Gal Habitué

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    I said perhaps. My Grandmother became EXTREMELY ill and died within the last two weeks of my student teaching - I missed the last two weeks and technically shouldn't have completed the program. I came back for a week in January prior to exams, and still really had a week left to complete, but everyone signed off for me, because in all honesty, her death and illness were beyond my control.
     
  29. ebrillblaiddes

    ebrillblaiddes Companion

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    If it were for a good reason, and if the person were doing everything possible to get it together and just had to have paperwork in by a deadline, I would probably go off of the "90% is enough for an A" rule. Emergencies happen to all of us. If the only consequence to getting the paperwork in a week late was starting the next semester's courseload a week late, I'd say they should just suck it up--but putting someone that far behind is not a thing to do lightly.

    If the person had been doing frivolous things like vacations in the cheap season or making no effort to catch up, I wouldn't cut them any slack, though. That comes down to choices in showing how badly you want it. If someone's screwing around before they get through the hoops, they'll screw around after, and I don't want their screwing around to come back on me as someone who signed for it.

    This is kind of comparable to how I let my younger sister drive on a learner's permit in my car before I was 21 (the minimum age for the driver trainer in the state I grew up in) because she took it seriously enough and was careful enough that I figured she deserved it and I wasn't worried about getting caught.
     
  30. Missy99

    Missy99 Connoisseur

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    Dec 9, 2008

    If I won't lie for myself, I certainly wouldn't lie for someone else.
     
  31. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    That would depend on how long they were going to observe, whether or not I knew the person, and what the reason was that they didn't make it.

    I'm not going to lie for someone who is just too lazy to do their work, but I'm also not going to be a complete witch to someone who has a legitimate emergency.
     
  32. MrsWbee

    MrsWbee Companion

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    I want to know why the OP was asking...?
     
  33. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Sorry, I meant to explain earlier! :)

    No one asked me to sign off on their observation hours. The situation was that I was doing the observations for an additional certification when my fellow teachers suggested I just have one of them sign off. I said that I'd rather do the hours because I thought it would be interesting, so I did as planned. Anyway, it just got me thinking of how often this happens. Everyone lies about it. Classmates, colleagues...observation hours are a joke. I was curious what others thought about the topic. Maybe I'm just a weenie, but I'd be too scared to lie about it.
     
  34. bonneb

    bonneb Fanatic

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    According to the survey there are more of us honest folk than the cheaters. That is encouraging!

    In most of these situations, as the mentor teacher or student observer, I would sign off the actual hours, then attach a letter explaining the 1 hour short circumstance - the school closed early, there was a death in the family, etc. Then let the professor make the decision. The professor has that discretion.

    Creeps me out that a teacher would put you in that position.
     
  35. Canadian Gal

    Canadian Gal Habitué

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    Not in every program. Without the two weeks I would have had to repeat the entire thing, and, since it is a PASS/FAIL course worth an entire SEMESTER's WORTH of credit hours, I would have had a FAIL on my transcript.
     
  36. bonneb

    bonneb Fanatic

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    It sounds like the people in charge understood the circumstances and gave you some slack. I don't see anything wrong with that really. They could see you had worked hard then something very real messed up the plan. One of the most important things about being a teacher is the ability to go to plan b, be flexible, work with the situation you have, etc. I think the teacher felt you had gotten what you needed and took the initiative to sign you off. To me that is very different than a student asking for the teacher to lie. Or than a teacher offering to lie for a colleague.
     
  37. Canadian Gal

    Canadian Gal Habitué

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    Umm my coop and my advisor signed off on my situation WITHOUT the knowledge of anyone at the University. They aren't in charge of anything except observing me really, but I get what you mean.
     
  38. Tasha

    Tasha Phenom

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    That was not my experience at all. We all wanted to get as many observation hours as possible to get experience before internship! ;)
     
  39. Yank7

    Yank7 Habitué

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    I don't think it would be right to sign as the purpose for the observation would be totally defeated and I would feel guilty about lying.
     

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