Lose hope?

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by CDOR79, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. CDOR79

    CDOR79 Comrade

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    Just wondering if anyone has input as to when I should completely lose hope in a job...lol

    I had a second interview last Friday. It went well and the panel seemed to be interested. At the end, I was asked if I was in contract at my current school and also told by the same
    member that I’d “definitely be hearing from them” as I was escorted by him.

    They said they’d be moving fast Bc they want to get it completed by the next board meeting which is next Monday. They said they’d know their decision by next week- which is now! Lol. It’s now Wednesday and haven’t heard a peep either way. As the week goes by, I’m obviously losing hope.

    From experience, when is it safe to lose ALL hope? I’m aware that many districts don’t bother to let you know if you’re not hired. I just want to know either way.
     
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  3. Been There

    Been There Habitué

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    With so much at stake, why not just pick up the phone and call the HR dept. to find out what your status is relative to the position in question. Call now!
     
  4. CDOR79

    CDOR79 Comrade

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    Wouldn’t it be premature to do since I was told “next week”? I mean, yes I’m going crazy in my own head about this but I don’t want them to know! Haha. I don’t want to be annoying either! Lol Maybe at least wait until Friday...?

    Who typically calls to offer positions anyway- an administrator or HR?
     
  5. pommom

    pommom Comrade

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    I have had both admin and hr offer me positions. End of July and Aug you have good chances because most teachers are locked in their contracts so less competition.
     
  6. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Dont give up. Do another round of online applications and mail out packages to every public,private and charter within a reasonable commute.
     
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  7. CDOR79

    CDOR79 Comrade

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    Thank you for the responses and the encouragement! I’m not giving up yet! I really just wondering if I should give up hearing from this particular district.

    I’m thinking if I don’t hear by tomorrow, it’s definitely a no go. Do you think that’s fair of me to think? Or should I have heard by now...?
     
  8. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    It really depends on when the schools in your area start, too. We start in two weeks, so all of our positions are set unless somebody resigns.

    It is hard to be patient. We always give candidates a date that we will let them know something one way or the other.
     
  9. CDOR79

    CDOR79 Comrade

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    Well, we don’t start until September so there’s time. They did give a time frame of “by next week” and now that tomorrow is already Thursday, the hope is slipping
     
  10. CDOR79

    CDOR79 Comrade

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    Jul 20, 2018

    Hope= dead. Lol

    I received the email yesterday. At least they honored their word and followed through to let me know I didn’t get the job...I do respect that.

    Time to move forward! Seriously considering a new profession. If my BEST isn’t “enough” (and I say best Bc they saw my skills, had a great interview, etc)...then I think it’s a sign to move in a different direction. It’s like I’m not meant to continue in education.

    Time will tell. Thank you for the replies everyone!
     
  11. Been There

    Been There Habitué

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    Truly sorry you didn't get the job. I would suggest at least continuing the effort through the summer before giving up completely. If it's meant to be, it will happen.
     
  12. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    OP, not sure how long you have been interviewing since your graduation, what state you are interviewing in, or what credential you are interviewing with. Each of those factors need consideration before the "Seriously considering a new profession" comment. Those in many states face overwhelming odds, especially if they are trying to enter the job pool in the elementary level. If you have a "current district" and are employed, but wanting a "new" job, well, that may be hard to find in some states without additional education to set you apart from the crowd. Lots of factors to be considered, and I doubt that we have enough information to know which have and have not been considered.

    If my BEST isn’t “enough” (and I say best Bc they saw my skills, had a great interview, etc), well, that is subjective on your part. Are you certain that your skills couldn't be improved, or that your interview went as well as you thought it did? How I wish I had a dollar for every post on this forum that stated the poster had just had this "great" interview, and had had other such "great interviews", but they still lacked job offers. Often the person who was interviewed sees that interview through rose colored glasses, while the hiring committee does not, leading to very different outcomes in their decisions or desires.

    I'm not being cruel or heartless, but I have seen how some job searches are very difficult - too fee positions for too many applicants. In those classes, education isn't the problem, but the direction may be. More education, with better qualifications and skill sets may completely turn around your chance of success - saw this in my own family. New skill sets resulted in multiple job offers. Whether you are inclined to work for more skill acquisition is strictly up to you.
     
  13. MissScrimmage

    MissScrimmage Aficionado

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    Sorry - some how I missed some posts. I replied, but my response is irrelevant now and I don't know how to delete this!
     
  14. pommom

    pommom Comrade

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    Yes, this!
    What subjects and grade are you trying to teach? Experience? Are you applying to ALL districts in your area?
     
  15. CDOR79

    CDOR79 Comrade

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    Jul 20, 2018

    So to answer a few questions that some of you asked and Vicki...I didn’t just graduate. I’ve been teaching for the past 11 years in a Catholic school. I’ve taught 4th and 5th and just finished my 7th year in third. I have a Masters in K-5 and just got my special ed cert last year. Ive been applying for the past 5 years in NJ. I’ve been applying to all job postings I see for K-5 or special ed. I have plenty of experience in different areas and know there would be changes in the public school setting but have shown my willingness and openness to those changes through my interviews.

    When I say my best, yes I mean for ME. The interviews with this last district was my best and the fact that I got to round 2 tells me that as well. I’m not looking through rose colored glasses. I’m as realistic as anyone else and am VERY hard on myself. If I screw up, I’d be the FIRST to say so.

    Of course I could learn more or get more certs, etc. but at this point I’m not willing to do (I JUST finished the special ed program) nor do I have the money to either. I won’t put myself in further debt.

    I wasn’t stating education is completely
    the problem. I’m simply saying I’ve hit a wall and need to perhaps find another path for my career. In addition to what I just said, add the fact that my school is financially struggling and is year to year at this point. Our enrollment is down and we could close at any time. Then I’d be left unemployed.

    So all of this together is why I’m at the point I’m at right now.
     
  16. pommom

    pommom Comrade

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    I have never been to NJ, so I dont know about the teacher damand there. The special ed cert is great! However, like someone said, elementary everywhere has more candidates applying. This spring and summer, I have been applying and interviewing for a few months until I got 2 offers. You have been applying for 5 years though? Could u move to an area nearby?
     
  17. CDOR79

    CDOR79 Comrade

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    That’s great, Pom! Where are you located?

    Unfortunately, I can’t move. As for demand, everybody and their mother is applying for elementary. Lol
     
  18. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    This is a sincere question meant to solve your problem, not intended to make your life worse. In your undergrad degree, do you have 15 credits in math, science, or English? If so, for the cost and time spent taking the MS: Specialization in Math, or Science, or English Praxis II Exam, you open up those three classes as well as their SPED counterparts if your SPED degree is Teacher of Students with Disabilities, since you can teach the SPED classes for any course that you have the standard credential for here in NJ. If you almost have 15 credits in those three subjects, you can take an inexpensive CLEP Exam to fill the requirement, since for MS certifications, you simply need 15 credits, not a logical major. You'll notice that I didn't add the MS Specialization in SS, primarily because I believe you will simply be trading one overfilled category (elementary) for another. Science, ELA, and Math, however, open some serious doors to new jobs, especially since you would be able to teach TSD in those MS subjects, especially if you would like to make a switch to Public school, or even a different type of private school that may be better funding. I, for one, would love to teach MS Specialization, and hold those certs. They do allow me to teach MS: Science in the private school that I teach in, and being qualified to teach MS in Science, or ELA, or Math, or SS qualifies me to teach those MS courses with the TOSD cert.

    I asked my questions because there can be so much variation between states. When my son came back to apply for Music Education position with a master's in the field, our entire family was impacted by his job search. He become despondent and wondered what was wrong with him.. Fortunately, TCNJ had received a grant to help train ESL teachers in a uniform manner, for $400-$450 per 3 credit graduate course. With a standard certificate, five courses were needed, for a total of 15 grad credits granted through TCNJ for a total out of pocket expense of $2250, assuming there was no tuition reimbursement offered from the job these students held. My MEd. cost me $4500, because I changed jobs near the end of the acquisition of the degree, and I believe that the cost for my son's MEd. in ESL was a grand total of $6150. which we gave to him as a gift, because it was one course at a time,taken when I was employed full time, making it an amount we could swing for him.

    My son never found a music job, but the ESL jog paid off in spades. My MEd. in ESL impacted my starting salary for the job I currently have, and tuition reimbursement allowed me to acquire my TOSD cert with very little out of pocket expense.

    I would suggest that you consider acquisition of the MS Specialization certifications in NJ to get maximum benefit from your SPED certification, perhaps finding a new job home with an improved salary and benefits. Wishing you the best of luck.
     
  19. CDOR79

    CDOR79 Comrade

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    Vicki,

    I believe you're being sincere and I appreciate your help! I'm glad to hear everything worked out for you and your son.

    You bring up an interesting point as far as the specialization cert. My undergrad is in Business/Marketing and I did take a variety of classes. I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly...you're saying that if I took at least 15 credits in math (let's say), that would satisfy the course work for the specialization and could teach math 5-8...? That's obviously after the Praxis was taken and other requirements were met too.

    I would have to look into it and get a hold of my undergrad transcript. I don't remember exactly what I took as it was close to 20 years ago.
     
  20. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    You are on the right track. NJ MS Specialization simply requires 15 credits, not in any specific order, or at any specific level, unlike trying to have enough and the correct level/sequence for a K-12 certification, where the 30 credits you would need would have to show at least 40% of the work at the junior/senior level. When I was looking to add the MS ELA, one of the courses that my university had counted as English coursework, NJ did not. I considered ways to rectify the problem, and finally learned about the CLEP exams. I had enough knowledge, so I took a test that a NJ community college would give me 5 English credits for if I passed the exam. I think the exam was no more than $100, and there were practice exams on the following site,https://study.com/academy/goal/transferable-credit/credit-by-exam/clep-exams-college-level-examination-program.html?src=ppc_adwords_nonbrand&rcntxt=aws&crt=237956713871&kwd=peterson clep practice tests free&kwid=kwd-455557037211&agid=26069711708&mt=e&device=c&network=g. If you or anyone in your family has been involved with the military, the practice exams are free, or were when I used them. Excellent study guides/practice tests for the CLEP exams, and worth any money that you may need to pay if you are not involved in the military, because that fee is minimal and the practice guides and practice exams are excellent. There are lots of "study guides" that cost a lost more money that are no where nearly as good as the Peterson site. Best information that I received, so passing it along for free.

    I took the exam, passed with flying colors, it was accepted to the community college transcript, NJDOE immediately accepted the credit, and since I had already passed the Praxis exam, the certification, my credential was quickly added to my standard certificates after I applied and paid online. If in doubt, submit your transcript for evaluation, and if it has everything you need for the certification, or they can provide the information you need to meet the qualifications for the certification you are asking about, the evaluation fee will be applied to the fee needed to get your certification, so a win all around. I mention this from time to time about earning the NJ MS Specialization certificate, because I have three of those certificates, and I do believe that they have helped me get new jobs, especially at private schools where my TOSD becomes valid in varied graded levels once I acquired the MS Specialization cert.

    Hope this is helpful to you. I have considered going for the fourth available certification, knowing that I would need to pass 3 CLEP Exams. I essentially passed out of math as an undergrad, so I received credit based on my ACT and SAT scores. I would need two CLEP Exams, and then I could take the Praxis for MS Math. I haven't to date, because I didn't have the TOSD back when I was considering it. Knowing now that I would be eligible to teach SPED in MS Math may encourage me to add this to my certifications. I worked with a really nice and forthright person at the DOE who gave me good advice when she evaluated my transcript. I've been told that some make you find out all of this on your own, with no signs along the way. Mine, however, left bread-crumb trails that made it easy to follow the process. Hope my information will be just as helpful to you. Good luck and happy hunting.

    Here's hoping that hope can be renewed with something as simple as the way to increase your NJ certifications without having to add more grad school to your agenda. :hugs:
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  21. pommom

    pommom Comrade

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    Op, are you a fully certerfied teacher in your state now?
    In TX, if we hold our standard teacher cert, we can go online and sign up to take ANY subject content state test to be certified in. I wouldnt need to go back to college at all, just take the state test and pass.
    Of course, which test you decide to take, you need to feel comfortable teaching it too.
    Is it not like this in NJ?
     
  22. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    I’ve always wondered, why are there so many more applicants for elementary positions than middle school and high school positions?
     
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  23. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    This is the way it should be nationwide...
     
  24. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    No idea. But, if I had to guess, I would think that it's because middle and high school teachers must be certified in a specialized area, which automatically limits who can apply for it. With elementary, the only cert required is general, and it usually spans several grade/age ranges. So, the pool of applicants is larger without the specialized requirements.
     
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  25. pommom

    pommom Comrade

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    There are middle school generalists too to teach all subjects.
    A lot of elem teachers I talk to are horrified at the thought of teaching teenagers.Teenagers are not as eager to learn or please their elders. Elementary content is also easier.
    This is why there are more elementary teachers.
     
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  26. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    That's true that some middle school grade teachers do function similarly to elementary schools with a single teacher teaching all content areas, although I don't think it's as common as have content-specific middle school positions - at least not in either city where I've lived. In my area, if a teacher is teaching all subjects, it's considered elementary, not middle school. For example, I attended a 6-8 middle school where teachers specialized in content areas. I now work at a 3-6 elementary school. Our sixth grade teachers don't have to hold a specialized certification, and they are considered elementary teachers.

    Also, I would caution against saying that elementary content is "easier". Perhaps it's more simplified than the more complex skills that some secondary teachers teach. However, elementary teachers need to have an understanding of the content that would stump some secondary teachers, particularly in math. Teaching young kids how to add and subtract with reasoning skills is not as easy as one might think.

    I don't disagree that teenagers are likely challenging to teach, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it is the primary reason that there are more elementary teachers applying to jobs. I really think that the specialized content certification is a big factor - at least in some states. For example, in the past, I've thought about getting an additional certification so that I could teach middle school, but, without a college degree in any specific area (or at least a minimum number of credit hours), I'm not qualified. I would actually have to go back to school and get a degree in math, English, history (whatever I want to teach) if I wanted to switch to middle school. I did see earlier in this thread that you are in TX, and they allow teachers who are already certified in one area to simply take a test in order to be certified in another area. That's not how it works in all states, though. Here, without the actual college credit hours on your transcript, you're not eligible to teach secondary grades. For someone who knows that they want to be teacher when they are in undergrad, this may not present a problem. For career-changers, though, it's a lot easier to go back and get an elementary cert than to get a secondary cert, if you didn't get your undergrad degree in a relevant content area.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  27. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Thank you for your thorough explanation.

    In addition, I wonder why there are so many elementary school graduates still because the market is already flooded with them. Haven’t they heard of supply and demand? They are making it increasingly difficult for anyone to find a job as there are multiple dozens to hundreds to sometimes thousands of applicants applying for one or a few elementary teaching jobs. That doesn’t seem sustainable to me...
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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  28. TrademarkTer

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    This is true. I teach high school pre-calc/calc. If a kid asked me how to add two numbers, I wouldn't really have a great answer because in high school, you just do it. I can explain more complicated concepts, but the basics that are so obvious to me are harder to explain.
     
  29. TrademarkTer

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    This is true, but some people are determined to be elementary teachers whether or not there is a big demand for them. Some people may have wanted to teach elemantary school since they were young kids, and just because it is challenging for them to find such a job, doesn't mean they are going to give up on that particular dream.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  30. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    See description listed on the bottom of page one of this thread. Many teachers will have the undergraduate credits already in their transcripts, others may not. If you are wanting to teach something very different from your major, then you may need to find ways to add undergrad coursework to meet the requirements, but there are ways to acquire that coursework through testing for the credits. Virtually every state has a required teacher assessment that will need to be passed. In NJ it is the Praxis II, while Texas has their own state test.
     
  31. pommom

    pommom Comrade

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    Again with you...
    I didnt say its easier to teach elementary, but the content is easier for TEACHERS. Reading Shakespeare and Odyssy in high school is not easy to comprehend, but an elementary text is.
    I am sticking with what i said about that being the primary reason why there are more elementary teachers regardless what you say. I have experince teaching elem, middle, and high, so i know from experience, and there is a huge difference in eagerness from them. My elementary teacher friends also tell me exactly that is the primary reason!
     
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  32. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    I'm not trying to argue with you, despite what you may think. I'm just sharing my own perspective, which is based on my own experiences and happens to differ from yours. Yes, it does seem like you and I do not see eye-to-eye on many things, but there is no reason that we can't engage in respectful conversation, even with differing perspectives. You're welcome to your own opinions based on your own experiences. In this case, given our different experiences and others that I'm sure are out there, I would suggest that there probably is not one single reason that there are more applicants for elementary positions but, instead, a variety of reasons that combine to create such a situation.
     
  33. CDOR79

    CDOR79 Comrade

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    Thank you to everyone (especially Vicki!) for all of the info and support!

    Yes Pom, I’m fully certified to teach K-5 in NJ as of right now.

    As for the debate going on about elementary vs. secondary, I have no idea why there are more applicants for one more than the other. I can just speak for myself when I say I made my decision Bc I personally prefer to deal with YOUNGER students as oppose to older. That’s what guided my decision years ago to major in elementary ed. I would say there’s probably a little of ALL of the factors that all of the posters are mentioning that play a role.

    As for the cert, I’m not sure what’s required. I sent an email to the dept of ed for NJ. I’m curious to see what they tell me. IF I could possibly obtain it by simply taking an exam (like the Praxis II), I’ll be all over it! I can only hope it’s that simple! From what I see, you need 15 credits for starters. My big question is do any of my completed courses satisfy that. I will find out!
     
  34. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

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    I am one of those people who was completely certain I was going to be an elementary school teacher since I was 7 years old. No one or nothing could’ve stopped me from reaching my goal.

    I never had a desire to teach one single subject to teenagers. Just doesn’t fit my personality.
     
  35. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    And then you went into administration, haha! But at least you’re still an elementary VP.

    I eventually want to go into administration (middle or high school) because although they work more days (like 40 more than teachers) they make excellent money and that’s worth it to me. [One of the teachers at my private school was promoted to VP and got like a $45,000 raise (he made $70,000 before as a teacher of 12 years with only a Bachelors). I was so envious of him!]

    Could you give me a synopsis of your daily schedule? IYO, what are the most important skills necessary for your job? What are the most important policies and educational laws that you have to know/abide by?

    Thank you for your time!
     
  36. Been There

    Been There Habitué

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    What caused you to leave the classroom in favor of administration? Was the lure of a higher salary a major factor?
     
  37. CDOR79

    CDOR79 Comrade

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    My post has been hijacked!:toofunny:

    All I can say to Future is yes- you’ll make more money but make sure it’s something you WANT to do too. From what I hear, it’s no picnic, especially in today’s society, to be an admin. The pay is appealing but make sure your heart is in it too :)
     
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  38. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    Not sure that it has been hijacked, but it has morphed into a possible solution much further down the line. Please accept my best wishes!
     
  39. CDOR79

    CDOR79 Comrade

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    I’m only teasing, Vicki!

    Thank you for the wishes and help again! :sunglasses:
     
  40. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    ,
     
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  41. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    ,
     
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