Licensing Travails

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by redtop, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. redtop

    redtop Companion

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    Apr 10, 2013

    I would not reply to anything substantive. If someone wanted to schedule an interview, I would reply to that. I do the same things that an executive recruiter would do for a job candidate.
     
  2. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Apr 10, 2013

    Uh huh...

    **
     
  3. MissD59

    MissD59 Comrade

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    Apr 11, 2013

    Chores? Sure. Job hunting? No. I read my boyfriend's resume over and offered suggestions, but that's as far as it went. You are not the job candidate, and I personally would look down on that as an administrator if I knew what was going on. Someone mentioned helicopter parents, and that is exactly what this sounds like. Instead of a helicopter parent, though, it's a helicopter spouse.

    I really see nothing wrong with you researching what it takes to receive teaching certifications in various states if you have time, and perhaps putting them together in a document so that all of the information is in the same place. Beyond that, though... :rolleyes:
     
  4. redtop

    redtop Companion

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    Apr 11, 2013

    I'm sorry that you don't feel particularly invested in your boyfriend's success, and that you draw the line where you do about what you will and won't do to help. I don't believe that filling out forms, scheduling tests and interviews, and booking travel are endemic to the teaching process.

    I also don't think the analogy to students is a good one. Not being a teacher and not being regularly exposed to children (although some of my clients do a fairly good impression!), I can only talk out of my hat, but I would tend to agree that an 18-year-old who can't make their own appointment for an interview, probably can't show up for the interview or for work either. But I don't think the same holds for an adult who has already had six years of university education and eight years of work experience. You don't have to stand on ceremony.

    Would you find it inappropriate if I drove my wife to her interviews? Would it change your view if I said she didn't have a drivers' license?
     
  5. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    Apr 11, 2013

    Forms should be completed by the person for whom the form applies to. Especially, if the forms are hand written. I'm thinking of some of the forms that I have filled out for various teaching jobs. Most of those forms my husband wouldn't have had the required knowledge to fill out. Yes, he can do the basic information, but the questions need to be answered by the candidate, in her words, you can't do that, unless your wife has written out the answers already & all you are doing is copying the information. But, if she's taken the time to do that, then why isn't she completing the forms?

    As to scheduling tests & interviews, that should be done by the candidate. If I am the person scheduling the interview & I'm calling to speak to a woman & a man is scheduling the interview, I'm going to question the candidates ability. I'm wondering why she can't take or make the calls herself. As for booking travel, that's awesome!

    If she drives, then she needs to be driving herself to the interview. The exception to that is if it is a long drive. Years ago, when I was young & looking for my first job, my Mom drove with me 6 hours, one way. Once we got to the town, I dropped her off at a restaurant, went to the interview & then picked her up. We then drove 6 hours back home. If you do drive her there, then you should not enter the place where the interview is being held.

    I understand that you want your wife to get a teaching job. Look at it from a future employers perspective: the husband is filling out forms & scheduling the interviews. Driving her to the interview. A future employer wants to see what the interviewee can do. Let your wife show her competence!
     
  6. MissD59

    MissD59 Comrade

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    Apr 11, 2013

    I'm plenty invested in my boyfriend's success, he actually does have a job and is a lawyer (my example was referring to when he was back in law school). I just do not see my role in caring about his success to include participating in his career. I wasn't drawing the line anywhere, seeing as I never refused to do anything he's asked of me; I don't think it would have crossed either one of our minds to ask the other person to apply to jobs for the other. It's not even a discussion. Based on my experience in life thus far, my attitude is the norm, yours is the exception.

    I have a feeling potential employers with align more with my perspective on the matter than yours.

    Driving your wife to an interview is providing transportation, nothing more. The public transportation department would be doing the same service if your wife were to take a bus or a subway to her job interview. The driver's license will also be an issue, seeing as I doubt she has a valid US license. Driving her to a job interview is not the same as what you have been doing thus far in regards to her job search...you're comparing apples to oranges. However, if I were hiring someone, I would be a bit curious as to how they were going to get to work in the future.

    I think that if you are driving her to an interview, on top of answering the phone for her in regards to setting up the interview, and emailing on her behalf then all of that combined sends a message to potential employers. I would question whether or not this woman was a competent adult, seeing as she certainly isn't demonstrating her ability to take care of herself and her own responsibilities thus far. How will she handle taking care of students in the classroom if she isn't even the one handling the responsibilities in her own life?

    But then again, these are just my thoughts. I mean, redtop, you were the one who brought up the drastic cultural difference that apparently exists between the US and Canada. Perhaps this is a culture clash. :2cents:
     
  7. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    Apr 11, 2013

    I think we're basically saying that you (redtop) are way too involved in your wife's job search. There would be nothing wrong with that, but we don't see her in the picture at all. Is she doing anything? even if she's in another country, she can still send emails, check out job posting, or even make phone calls, I'm sure. She could get ton of info from here, and since this is a message board, she could post here day or night, it wouldn't matter. I for one learned a lot here and got so much help with everything.

    It just seems really strange to most of us. (I think that's how we all feel :) )
     
  8. MissD59

    MissD59 Comrade

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    Apr 11, 2013

    :yeahthat:
     
  9. ravinraven

    ravinraven Companion

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    Apr 11, 2013

    You're comparing apples to durians. Your wife is a grown woman who is capable of doing her own applications, cover letters, resume writing, etc. and they are things that working adults are expected to do. You driving her somewhere because it is not safe or legal for her to drive without a license is also a reasonable expectation.

    Most of us here are capable of supporting our significant others without coddling them like you seem to be doing. If I were an administrator and I found out that a teacher's husband had done most of the behind the scenes grunt work, I would think less highly of them and question their work ethic.
     
  10. greendream

    greendream Cohort

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    Apr 15, 2013

    Guys, who cares who researches the jobs? Unless he takes the Praxis for her and dresses in drag for the interview, I'm pretty sure they won't hire him by mistake.

    I work an online teaching job on the side. My wife found this job posting, researched the school, uploaded my resume, and filled out the online application. All this was simply because she had much more time than I did to complete the process. It works that way in marriages sometimes.
     
  11. redtop

    redtop Companion

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    Apr 15, 2013

    I could take the Praxis for her. Do you get a 100 for fillng out your name correctly? I'd probably get a 99.

    Let me add another to my list of requirements I consider inane.

    If you try to call New Jersey to get information about teacher licensing, you will get an endless voice menu. You will not be able to talk to a person. I called the governor's office directly and they gave me the phone number of someone who can supposedly help, but I haven't been able to reach that person.

    So what I'm about to say may not be true, because I haven't had it confirmed by a person. But it appears that in order to get your license, you must have taken a course in health, biology, or physiololgy, or had military training, or go to New Jersey and pass a test on basic physiology, including the effects of alcohol and narcoticss.

    Virginia requires you to take an online course on "Child Abuse Awareness" and a test afterward, but it's like a one-hour thing. (No, I didn't take it for my wife.) This seems like a similar requirement, and I doubt that their test is that demanding. But apparently if you didn't happen to take the right courses in university, you cannot get a New Jersey license without making a special trip to New Jersey.

    I could be wrong, but the voice menu didn't tell me so.
     
  12. Ms B IL

    Ms B IL Rookie

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    Apr 15, 2013

    If I'm not mistaken, a lot of places/states require you to take particular courses to get a teaching license. It seems generous to me, actually, that they allow you [your wife] to simply take a test instead of fulfilling their course requirements. It does not appear to be required that you [she] go to New Jersey to take the course and I'm sure you could find a health course at an online community college for your wife to take in order to fulfill that requirement-- in fact I'm taking one right now.
     
  13. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Apr 15, 2013

    I was certified in Virginia and only had to to take one additional Praxis to complete my certification in NJ...Of course that was some time ago. If I wanted to get my certification in NY (I live only a few miles from the NY border), I'd have to pick up an abuse awareness sort of class..I'm not looking for additional licenses, but if I was, I'd do what it takes.
    BTW, NJ is a tough state in which to get a job...there are seriously hundreds of resumes for every one opening...districts can afford to be discriminating given that kind of candidate pool...plus there's a state residency requirement...so even if you manage to meet the requirements for certification, your wife would have to move to NJ within one year of hire (and truthfully, because of this requirement many districts don't interview out of state candidates)

    You don't have to like it red top...neither does your wife. No one said this would or should be easy...but you (your wife) are/is in competition with many highly qualified candidates in any state who are willing to do what it takes.
     
  14. MissD59

    MissD59 Comrade

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    Apr 15, 2013

    NY is like this. I got my undergrad degree from a private university in Boston, however, NY has VERY specific requirements, and I had to take 3 undergrad classes while taking my graduate courses for my masters (which is how I got certified).

    I also had to do FIVE of those seminars you mention. Child Abuse was one of them.

    If I wanted to get certified in NJ, I would have to find out what their requirements are and fulfill them if any of them differed from what I have in NY. I would not balk, complain, or roll my eyes at it; I'd just do it. I live stateside and the rules are the same for me as well.

    Principals and administrators couldn't care less if you find all of this inane.

    I personally find complaining about the differences of certification requirements from state to state in the US for a straight month when you can't do anything about it, and it should no longer be a shock, to be positively inane as well.
     
  15. yellowdaisies

    yellowdaisies Fanatic

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    Apr 15, 2013

    The thing is, it is an employer's market. They are not desperate for teachers, so they can ask for basically anything they please. That's the reality. States have plenty of candidates already living within the state; they don't need to make things easier for out of state candidates.

    I jumped through MANY hoops (still jumping, actually - 2 year teacher induction program) - and yes, I've complained a bit along the way, but always with a laugh and a shoulder shrug, because at the end of the day, who cares? I want to teach, these are the requirements, the end. It's not going to do anyone any good if I constantly complain and become bitter about the situation.
     
  16. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Apr 15, 2013

    :thumb:

    Hang in, yellow! You'll get there!:love:
     
  17. Storyteller

    Storyteller Rookie

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    Apr 16, 2013

    This entire conversation has left me alternately cracking up and shaking my head in disbelief. I think everyone has great insights into redtop's situation and, I have come to one conclusion.

    Apparently, there are a lot of hoops that some people are unwilling to jump through in order to find a job in a highly competitive market. I'm glad that, as a college grad looking for a first-year job, I'm game to jump through anything. It sounds like I'll have a much better chance at a job than some people. :)
     
  18. redtop

    redtop Companion

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    Apr 17, 2013

    Have a good trip. When you have to fly to Massachusetts to take a test to demonstrate minimum proficiency in a subject where you have already taken a virtually identical test, and have a masters in the field.

    Have a good day. When you want to find out what it takes to get licensed in Illinios, and the webpage is very confusing and says "We do not respond to emails only to phone calls" and when you call the number and press 1 for licensing information you get a recording that says "Please look at our webpage, thank you for calling, goodbye."
     
  19. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    Apr 17, 2013

    Okay, I don't agree with the Op's approach to some things, but on the subject of licensure, I do agree that there are a lot of unnecessary hoops. I understand that the reason is because it's a state right thus it is more like 50 autonomous nations yet I will admit that I wish things were more standardized. In the case of the FBI check, I do not understand why people can't punch it into a system that can allow businesses (or the bureau) to check for a year. With things being as data connected and mobile as it is today, there surely are more efficient ways of doing things. I am not against a more standardized approach here. Each state or even district can still have some control over minor things but there are some things that are done pretty much everywhere you go. Those are the things that need more standardization and efficiency.

    Of course, I am not sure exactly where I stand on state vs. national rights at this moment with education. Things are a mess.

    One thing that is for sure though, we don't have complete control over these things. We can vent, but we still at this time, have to do them.

    I also think that the hoops are too confusing. I don't find it easy to figure out what state requires what. I also don't find it easy to even contact my own state board of education. Here, they will not even speak to you as an individual unless you are unemployed. It took over a year to get an answer because I had to wait to go through other people. No, I don't find our system to be efficient. I think it is a mess.
     
  20. redtop

    redtop Companion

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    Apr 17, 2013

    If you go to the Illinois Department of Education website, you will see a "Contact Us" form, but a legend that says that the certification division only responds to phone calls at 217-557-6763.

    If you call that number and press 1 for information on out-of-state cetification, you will get a recording that gives you the web address, then disconnects.

    I wrote to the governor's office, asking whom to contact. I got back a letter from the division administrator for education licensure, telling me to call that number and use option 4.

    When I do that I get a message telling me that all lines are busy (no surprise) or that I am calling outside regular business hours (I wasn't). It tells me to hold for the next available person, then disconnects.

    If anyone wants to tell me that I should be able to understand http://www.isbe.state.il.us/certification/pdf/application_checklist.pdf without an intrepeter, I will be happy to take the criticism.

    In other words, they do everything possible to prevent you from applying.
     
  21. MissD59

    MissD59 Comrade

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    Apr 17, 2013

    I'm not saying it's right, but in many states...they don't really NEED out of state job applicants. The market is over saturated with unemployed teachers, many of whom hold multiple certifications and are residents of that state. It's an employer's market.
     
  22. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Apr 17, 2013

    I'll be the one to give you the criticism. I'm really not sure what exactly you are finding difficult to understand about that document, as it seems pretty straightforward to me. I suspect your difficulty lies in the fact that you are not a teacher and are, therefore, unfamiliar with the education terminology that is used. This is just one reason, as others have already said, your wife should be the one taking care of this business.

    Perhaps, instead of complaining, you could post your questions about various states' requirements here and allow us to provide some answers for you, since you're having no luck with state departments. I'm sure you'd get some thoughtful and helpful answers that way.
     
  23. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Apr 17, 2013

    :thumb: I didn't need an interpreter either.
     
  24. redtop

    redtop Companion

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    Apr 18, 2013

    Good, can you answer the following questions definitively?

    1) Is a foreign transcript evaluation required?
    2) If so, are original transcripts required (given that the whole idea of a foreign transcript evaluation is that the state is unable to properly evaluate the transcripts themselves)?
    3) Is form 73-05 required, given that it was not at "state"-approved program, but rather approved by the Province of Ontario?
    4) Is form 73-06 required, given that some of her courses were taken in France?
    5) What are the "deficiencies" referred to in item #5 regarding a provisional certificate?
    6) What type(s) of certificates are "comparable to the certificate for which {she} is applying?" Answer this specifically with regard to a North Carolina license.
    7) What tests are required prior to issuance of a provisional certificate?

    I did reach the Illinois Department of Education and got these questions answered. If anyone can get all 7 correct, I will concede that I didn't need to talk to them. If not, then it would appear that the phone call was necessary and that my complaint that the webpage was unclear was unjustified.

    I will add question (8) what is the normal lag between submission of an application and issuance of a license? Given that this affects the ability to apply for jobs this year.
     
  25. redtop

    redtop Companion

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    Apr 18, 2013

    Yep, that's what we're willing to do.

    It's not "anywhere." Pretty much limited to larger cities not too far from the East Coast. Chicago/Atlanta or east.

    Given that we got married without living in the same country, do you think we give up easily?
     
  26. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Apr 18, 2013

    :yawn:

    I doubt you are seeking help anymore, red... (not sure I really ever thought you were)
     
  27. redtop

    redtop Companion

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    Apr 29, 2013

    I never said I was looking for help. Read the first post.

    I notice that neither Bella84 nor czacsa answered my questions in post 64.

    By the way, she's now licensed in Ontario, North Carolina, Georgia and Virginia. Applications pending in MA, NY, PA, NJ, MD, and IL.
     
  28. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    Apr 29, 2013

    Wow! I can't imagine being licensed in that many states, unless I was already living there! I understand maintaining a license, but. . . .
     
  29. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Apr 29, 2013

    You said that you had your questions answered already by ISBE. I don't have time to play games, so since you didn't need help any longer, I didn't bother to even try answering.
     
  30. redtop

    redtop Companion

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    Apr 30, 2013

    Well, Bella, you were one of two people who said you found the document easy to understand. I disagreed. You're welcome to not pursue it, but I posted the questions I thought were not self-evident.

    As for kpa1b2, that's kind of the whole point of this thread, that they make it unreasonably difficult to apply for jobs, having to go through the whole licensing process just to interview. What would happen to someone who didn't have the money to get all these licenses? I would say most cost in the $300 range, but at least one will be unreasonably expensive as it will require a trip to that state to take their subject-specific exam, as passing the Praxis and having a Masters in the subject from a world-renouned university apparently is not enough.
     

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