Let's talk school shootings

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Caesar753, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. DinoTeach

    DinoTeach Rookie

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    Feb 21, 2018

    If we do this, and a shooter comes in with a pistol or a knife, what's the argument then?

    Thanks for replying--I believe we all genuinely want to protect kids. Why can't we try it ALL? Mental health, crack down on bad guys with guns, and arm teachers or put armed guards in.
     
  2. DinoTeach

    DinoTeach Rookie

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    I do like the idea of safer/more secure classroom. I seem to remember a device a few years back that made it almost impossible to open a door. Maybe we should equip all rooms with those.
     
  3. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Feb 21, 2018

    Maybe we shouldn't be training our children to live in a police state where every person they interact with is armed with a gun. Are we preparing them for life, prison, or a military state? The normalization of guns guns guns everywhere can't be good for the minds and hearts of these little ones. The additional bullets that would be flying around can't be good for any parts of their bodies.
     
  4. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Feb 21, 2018

    I'll just leave this here since we need a slight comedy relief... mixed with some truth from the great sage Robin Williams.
     
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  5. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Feb 21, 2018

    I will never teach in a building which regularly has a loaded gun. Ever. If a cop needs to pop in once in awhile, that's different, but I will never teach in a building with an armed security guard or armed teachers. Nope. Not interested.
     
  6. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Feb 21, 2018

    Our SRO is armed on campus every day. I wish that, given the size of our campus, we had two SROs. I do not want armed "security guards" with little training, but we have three ROTC instructors who are all retired military. I would be fine with them having access to weapons to use in the case of a shooter on campus. I don't think they need to carry them on them all the time on lunch duty or whatever.
     
  7. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Everybody has to make the decision that is right for them (and I might feel differently if I taught in a high school setting), but for me, I have no interest in a situation like that. If I had to choose between a school with an armed guard, or teacher, or armed anyone, and getting a 9-5 doing whatever somewhere else, I'd go for option two.
     
  8. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    Feb 22, 2018

    Obadiah likes this.
  9. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    Feb 22, 2018

    Guns don't protect; people do. Special training is required to overcome the natural tendency to hesitate prior to shooting; armed teachers would need this special training. Warning shots, shooting to lame, or just saying, "Drop your weapon" works in the movies, but they have a script to follow; real life doesn't. And in westerns for example, guns are firing back and forth and hardly anyone gets hit--that is not real life, either. A bullet hits any person in the way of it, and this includes ricocheted bullets, even if the person firing is defending against another shooter.

    I'm sitting here reading and pondering all these posts. And I think it's good that we're discussing various opinions. This is a serious, serious problem that needs consideration from all sides. EVERY WEEK the newspaper discloses a local threat to a school. I'm often dumbfounded on what I can add to this discussion. Right now, I'm at my desk at home and I have another chore that I meant to start 50 minutes ago: I'm still here at my desk pondering.

    Some odd thoughts that have gone through my mind. I don't mean this as silly, but I can't picture Mr. Rogers wearing a gun. Another thought: I'm about to go the shopping mall. I will have my cell phone with me, just in case--if a shooting would occur, someone needs to call 911. And when I'm in the restroom, I don't want to be the next victim in the paper (every restroom in the mall has had an assault of some sort recently).
    Just some thoughts.
     
  10. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    Feb 22, 2018

    Just saw this on twitter:

    Wanted: Teacher
    Job Description: Low pay, no respect from society, might have to kill someone, probably a student, will need to know which one to kill while panicking, starts immediately, art supplies not provided.
     
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  11. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    Feb 22, 2018

    And this:

    .@NRA's Wayne LaPierre: Right to bear arms is "not bestowed by man but granted by God to all Americans as our American birthright."

    James Martin SJ :

    Needless to say, neither God in the OT nor Jesus in the NT said anything about Americans. Rather, Jesus told his disciples to "take no staff," when staffs were used as weapons (Lk 9:3). And he tells Peter to sheath his sword: "Who lives by the sword dies by the sword" (Mt 26:52).
     
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  12. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    Feb 23, 2018

    A teacher is responding to a violent situation. The teacher sees a boy pull a gun and so the teacher shoots the student. But was that the correct student?

    We don't truly see with our eyes. Our eyes send nerve stimulation from light to the brain, and the brain bounces it back and forth to decide what is actually to be reinterpreted as light. Often this interpretation is based upon previous learning. That's why, at first glance, we might think we see something that isn't really there. In my hypothetical situation, the boy was pulling a cellphone out of his pocket. Oh, and the actual shooter was a girl. The teacher's eyes weren't expecting a girl.

    Back to what really happened in Florida, I read shocking news last night. I'm not a police officer, so I know I shouldn't be passing judgment on procedures I know nothing about, but I'm concerned. Recently, after tragedies, I've noticed that someone is blamed. I don't know if further articles have updated information, but from what I read last night, the security officer at the school stayed outside of the building while the shooting was going on. The article made it look like he was avoiding being shot himself while other teachers took bullets in place of their students. He resigned and retired after the fault was placed on him. But another teacher from the school questioned how his entering the building would have solved the problem; he wouldn't have been able to shoot the killer but he, himself, would have been shot. The article reported that during the shooting he was outside on his radio. I do know that police communication is used so further responders can adequately locate a shooter and stop him/her. A dead policeman only would continue the shooting. If he is truly at fault for not responding correctly, then yes, the blame is appropriate, but then also...in a sudden situation such as this, mistakes will be made. I'm not convinced with the sketchy information I currently have that this was an act of cowardliness, and again, I'm not convinced it was an actual mistake, even. Hindsight is often more accurate than foresight, and after each tragedy, police have learned better ways to respond to situations, ways to improve protection and prevention, but sometimes, horrible as it is, we don't know for sure what to do until after it happens. I found it interesting that this was an exemplary police officer that the entire staff and students at the school respected and trusted.
     
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  13. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    Feb 23, 2018

    If I might make one more quick comment. We've had 150 posts on this thread. I was thinking last night, we, as teachers, are making a difference by discussing our opinions from our perspective on this thread. This is how.

    Niall Ferguson cites research, in his book The Square and the Tower, that we are usually only 5 or 6 people away from contacting anyone else. In other words, I might know someone who knows someone who knows someone...who knows President Trump or the secretary of education. But he also emphasizes that recent research also indicates that within a forum such as (in the researcher's example) Facebook, we might be only 3 contacts away. It is very, very, very likely that the President himself or members of Congress are reading our posts on A to Z.

    Ferguson, Niall. The Square and the Tower: Networks and Power, from the Freemasons to Facebook. N.Y.: Penguin Press, 2018.
     
  14. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    Feb 23, 2018

    We need to fix the children / people, not the guns.
    If children grew up with a healthy mind and abilities to cope with negative feelings, trauma, etc, every household could have guns laying around and the kids wouldn't even think about shooting anyone.

    Obviously we can't do all this right now, but in my opinion taking guns away from responsible people is not the answer. It is obvious that criminals would still find a way to get it.
    I have 4 rifles at home, not locked up, but it is not loaded. My daughter is 20, obviously if she was younger I would have it all locked and put away. She has no desire to shoot anyone. That's what we need to aim for.

    Second, as I said before, instead of banning guns, we need a more effective background check. I don't think we can ever find out if someone has a mental illness, it won't come up in a background check. Should it? Isn't that doctor - patient privilege and private information? But we need to find a way to ensure that someone with a mental illness and desire to take revenge on people for some wrong doing cannot just buy a gun.
     
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  15. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    Feb 23, 2018

    But the NRA actively works against background checks by advocating for an ancient paper based system which they are not allowed to digitise because, they claim, it infringes something in your constitution.

     
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