Late work policy help

Discussion in 'Middle School / Junior High' started by RSA1984, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. RSA1984

    RSA1984 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    13

    Jul 24, 2018

    I am in the process of thinking about rules, routines, and procedures I would like to have in my classroom for the coming year; I am a first-year new teacher at the middle school level. One area I've been going back and forth with is accepting late work. Initially, I was going to adopt the policy of 50% per day; after 2 days it is a 0, but I felt this might be a little too harsh at the 7th grade level. Then I was thinking about 20% per day; this, in essence, will give a student a whole academic week to turn in a late assignment for at least partial credit and after that the assignment goes in as a 0. A good friend of mine suggested having a "homework ticket" where students get, say, 2 tickets per quarter and if they do not have a homework or in-class assignment that was due, they can turn in a ticket and the assignment won't count for or against them, but after the tickets run out, assignments go in as a 0, no questions asked (unless there's some sort of extenuating circumstance going on with a particular student).

    The thing is, I want to establish consistency in this particular area, but do not want to come across as a complete jerk. I do believe that middle school is a time where students need to begin learning true accountability for their work, taking those first initial steps. I've seen various teachers accept late work 2, 3, 4 weeks after the fact, and though they were only giving the students 40-50% as a mark, I feel it still is letting the kids think, "I can turn this in a month down the road, and I'll still get some sort of credit for it...no bother."

    I was told by my superintendent and principal that I need to establish clear rules and consequences within the first 6 weeks or else it will be a difficult year. I'm just trying to get everything in place as best I possibly can
    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  2.  
  3. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,413
    Likes Received:
    1,383

    Jul 24, 2018

    I don’t teach secondary, so consider this knowing that. But I’m a big fan of this “Teachers Throwing Out Grades” movement. We do a less finalized version of this in my elementary school, but I’ve mostly read about it being used in secondary grades. It’s basically mastery-based learning or standards-based grading. Here is an article about it, but there are many more if you Google it. There is even a Facebook group.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...throwing-out-grades-is-good-for-learning/amp/

    Here is a quote from one recent Facebook post that seems relevant: “Kids are often punished by grades because they fail to complete assignments. Then many shut down entirely. They just quit.” It’s from someone advocating for throwing out grades and explaining why it’s necessary (and presumably by late point policies are no good).

    So, this would negate your late policy, if you choose to do it.
     
  4. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,840
    Likes Received:
    586

    Jul 24, 2018

    You could also say that it depends on the type of assignment. One homework assignment likely does not have a huge impact on their grade, so I think a 50% deduction per day is fine. You could also allow a student to miss and make up three homeworks for full credit each quarter -- and after that it is a 0. For bigger projects, a 10%-20% deduction allows a little bit more leeway and might make more sense.

    In my student teaching, we gave students late credit for EVERYTHING. Even a homework assignment turned in two months late. It was annoying, but if a student has a 20% in the class, it made sense to reward him for doing something. We took 10% off for late homework and the lowest they could get was a 60% whenever they turned it in. I think your policy also depends on your school culture.
     
  5. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,429
    Likes Received:
    947

    Jul 24, 2018

    You might want to wait on making a policy until you see what your school requires. Your school may have a school-wide policy. We don't have a school-wide policy, but each grade-level team makes their own policy. I wouldn't spend my time making a policy of my own until I found out more.

    Does your school do standards-based grading? That will also make a difference.
     
  6. RSA1984

    RSA1984 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    13

    Jul 24, 2018


    The school and I believe district as a whole uses a traditional grading system. Not sure what the school’s policy is at this time; orientation is August 24, but I student taught at the high school in the district and it seemed like a lot of teachers were able to implement their individual policies with respect to late work. Some teachers absolutely never accepted it, others took away varying amounts of percentage points. Granted, this is the middle school, so it is probably best to wait. In the event I am able to develop my own policy, I want something that is fair but still shows real consequences I guess.
     
  7. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,429
    Likes Received:
    947

    Jul 24, 2018

    Our high school and middle school have very little in common as far as policies, so you are wise not to assume high school policies are the same as middle school.

    I didn't mention this earlier, but our school accepts late work. It is a pain because the same kids turn stuff in late all the time. We have a make-up day every grading period. The kids who have turned all of their work in on time get a reward activity, and the kids who have missing work are assigned to a work room.
     
  8. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,010
    Likes Received:
    465

    Jul 24, 2018

    I like your proactive approach. I do think something that is along the lines of 20%/day as a consequence as you mentioned above would be in the lines of fair and showing real consequences. I like that you are aiming with something you can be consistent with. Keep it simple and easy to implement and understand. As mentioned by previous posters, you may have to adapt your consequences to school/district policies.

    I taught 7th grade, and it is funny looking back at it. Some students take grades so seriously and some could care less. For the latter group, they would love to be able to do no work and take a "0". Decide what you will do with those few students who might choose that option. I found it best to still require work to be done someway somehow. In real life, I can't just say I will opt out of doing report cards and just take a cut in pay. I like your approach of getting them to be more responsible.
     
  9. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,468
    Likes Received:
    2,485

    Jul 24, 2018

    In the schools I've worked at, homework compliance has been a real problem. If I were to adopt a policy of deducting points or a percentage per day, it would be a complete hassle for me. Calculating late grades would be the only thing I'd ever do. Seriously.

    In schools where maybe two or three students might miss any given deadline, such a policy might be more manageable (although I might still argue that it goes against the spirit of assigning grades based on mastery). Where I'm at, easily half of students miss any given deadline. Those who will eventually turn in their work will do it whenever they feel like it, not necessarily in one day or two.
     
  10. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,224
    Likes Received:
    146

    Jul 24, 2018

    I do 20% per day for small assignments and 10% per day for projects, essays, etc... one of our teachers also doesn't accept late work once he's passed back the assignment in question unless the student comes in to work on it in his room. Too many kids were waiting for their friends to get papers back and then just copying. Something else to keep in mind!
     
    readingrules12 likes this.
  11. Been There

    Been There Habitué

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    514

    Jul 24, 2018

    It's almost impossible to instill a good work ethic in teenagers who have developed a habit of being lazy. As others have stated, it's a daily uphill losing battle. This is the reason it's soooo critical to establish uniform standards (will never happen) for homework in the primary grades when students are more amenable to being taught proper work habits - by the time they reach middle and high school, homework would be viewed as an accepted responsibility.
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  12. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,462
    Likes Received:
    1,340

    Jul 24, 2018

    Homework is not a hill I wish to die on, so my homework policy is quite simple. If the student turns homework in they receive a bonus grade. There is no penalty for not turning it in, except that when a quiz or test comes around, their grade will usually reflect their apathy.

    The bonus grades help students who want to improve their grades and may not do so well on an assessment. The students who choose not do do the homework are then held accountable for their actions.
     
  13. i.heart.trees

    i.heart.trees Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    3

    Jul 27, 2018

    :tearsofjoy:
     
  14. i.heart.trees

    i.heart.trees Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    3

    Jul 27, 2018

    Here's something I used last year. I am more reflecting on what worked for me, but I have a feeling this system wouldn't work for most people because it is a lot of work and some don't feel that students should get a 50% in the grade book for an assignment that was not done.

    Students who haven't handed in one or more assignments received a printed out list of assignments that they were missing ( a week or more late). Included on the list were due dates that the assignment(s) needed to be handed in in order to receive credit (highest grade is an 80%). If there is more than one assignment missing I've staggered the due dates so that they have one due date for each assignment. I am able to print out these lists easily as they are generated by PowerSchool, which your school may also have. Listing which assignments (#1, #2, etc) on the list that need to be handed on certain dates takes some time because I have to be mindful of IEPs and 504s and is the most time-consuming part of the process. However, I prefer having clear expectations for what point deductions will be made and when. I can also easily e-mail the PDFs to students or parents. If you use something like Google Classroom exclusively, it tells you if the assignment is late and (I think) when it was handed in). If the student does not hand in the assignment by the listed date, they earned a 50%. I've used the 50% system because a 50% to me already says that the student has NOT mastered the material, but it won't make it impossible for their grade to recover. I know a lot of teachers don't agree with this, but I also know others who do.

    Another thing to consider is whether your school provides students with e-mails. I have found it helpful when the school provides students with e-mails. In my experience it is a great tool for students to assume responsibility for asking questions about assignments or e-mailing me the assignments that they have missed.


    How you have students make up work, hand in work that is late, or obtain the absent work might also affect your grading policy for late work. I find it helpful to make sure the student is able to take full responsibility for making up missed work. For example, there is a place where the student can easily access any missed work (file system or Google Classroom). Chances are the student who handed in missed work also have a copy of the assignment. When they hand in late work, I've been having them place it in the same 'mailboxes' as they do when they hand it work that is on time. This way is usually easiest for me to determine when the late assignment was handed in.
     
  15. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    979

    Jul 28, 2018

    Sorry if I'm repeating anything, I haven't read through all the replies.
    - I would first check to see how other teachers handle this. You might think an idea is too strict only to find out all other teachers expect it. You kinda want to be in alignment with the other teachers, maybe a little stricter or more lenient in some areas, but you don't want your requirements to be to lax.
    - I wouldn't necessarily give a student a whole week to make up a homework assignment. If he didn't turn it in in 3 days, I don't think he will at all. And besides, you don't want to be overwhelmed with dozens on late assignments to be graded and figuring out how many points they are worth.
    - I would do it like this: 1 day late: worth 50%, 2 days late: worth 25% 3 days late: 0
    With essays and larger assignments I would still deduct for being late, but I would give them some time to make it up. (maybe 2 weeks at the most)

    I've found that with 7-8-9th graders it's not so much about informing them about the policy but to kinda hold their hand and checking on them, instilling the good habits in them. With homework, they will get used to it since it's frequent. With larger assignment that take 3-4 weeks, I would require them to bring it in for you to check it and give points. For example if they're writing an essay, their outline would be due on a certain date, the rough draft another, etc. This would make sure they don't procrastinate and start working on it the day before it's due.

    I also agree with them somehow earning "no homework" tickets. This could be for behavior, or if they have an a on a test (they miht not need to do all the homework since they got the material, and they probably do the homework anyways), but you could get creative with it and offer it to kids who improve on a test with a whole grade level, etc. Or a kid who has been tardy constantly, you could use it as a reward, etc.
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  16. mrsf70

    mrsf70 Companion

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    46

    Jul 29, 2018

    I teach 8th grade math and do not give homework. I do, however, collect daily in-class work for a completion grade, and I don't take a grade each day, but only on days I want a more formal check on how students are doing. As for late work, I've found if a student cares, I will get the work. If a student turns work in, I check it for thoughtfulness and completion and give them full credit. If I never receive it, students receive a 30% in the grade book
    . This tells me I never received the work. (I don't give zeros.) I have so many students who have late work, there's no way I would have the time or energy to calculate a percent for being late.
     
  17. Aces

    Aces Habitué

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    454

    Jul 29, 2018

    I don't generally accept late work. Honestly I'm so lenient with homework. They have a week to complete it and it's due by the end of the period on Monday. I'm even nice enough to remind them about it a couple of times during class on Mondays. It's either yup you did it you get a 1 or nope you didn't you get a 0. It makes my gradebook look like binary though.
     
  18. BreezyGirl

    BreezyGirl Companion

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2015
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    7

    Nov 9, 2018

    I teach Grade 8, so am getting them ready for high school. I am very flexible so my class knows if there is a reason why they can't turn something in that they talk to me and also to have a family member contact me. Illness and emergencies happen. With that said, I give plenty of notice for due dates and I allow sufficient class time to work on projects. Students who do not use class time wisely are the ones that are generally late.

    In math, I randomly collect their work that we have been doing. I already know who is working and who isn't as well as which students are trying hard and which I have worked with one on one. Collecting the work is holding them accountable. I do this a few times and they receive points out of 10.

    In LA, socials and science I give time to complete projects in class. I also write due dates on the board and give reminders. I also have due dates on our class website and if assignments are due on Google Classroom, they receive notifications. I also stay in at breaks and lunch if a student wants to work on assignments. And, once a week we have a finishing/study block. I also use Fresh Grade for reporting so families can see my notes on their child's portfolio as I will post a friendly reminder of missing assignments, the due dates, and ways I can support. I love Fresh Grade!

    So, lots of ways and opportunities as to why work shouldn't be late.

    Hence, why I do not give full marks. This seems to have worked with my classes as I only have two students who do not hand everything in. Accountability is on them. Our district has one day each term where students who are caught up have a half day. Students who are missing work stay to do work. For those students it will be 50% if they are overdue by a month or more. If students still go home on this day and project is not done, the mark is a 0.

    I don't do anything that will add extra an workload. We are extremely busy with planning, meetings, marking, you name it.
     
  19. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,840
    Likes Received:
    586

    Nov 9, 2018

    We aren't allowed to take points off for late work. I like this because it keeps it simple. If a kid doesn't have an assignment, I just tell them to turn it in to the bin and I go through the papers once a week. It's nice because I just mark it as late but I don't have to deal with calculating how many points to take off.
     
  20. miss_roxy

    miss_roxy Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    5

    Nov 18, 2018

    I give a due date, but I don't take marks off if it is late.
    I will tell the student I am missing their assignment, and write their name under the Missing Work section of the whiteboard. I tell them if it's not in by the time I go to mark the pile, it's a zero.
    After that, it's in their hands. I won't chase them down.
    Then, if it is still not in by the time I mark the pile, it is a zero. I've never had any of them complain because I give them fair warning and a grace period to get it in.
     
  21. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,870
    Likes Received:
    1,076

    Nov 21, 2018

    Question: How do students learn to meet deadlines if they cannot be penalized for late work or are given extra chances each time?

    Also, what would an employer do if an employee had this kind of work ethic?
     
  22. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,682
    Likes Received:
    1,582

    Nov 22, 2018

    Kids don't need to "learn to meet deadlines" by using homework to do it. They have to get to school at a certain time. Most have other activities that are at a certain time. They have classwork that must be done at a certain time.

    It seems you mean that if someone isn't punished they will never learn.
     
    mathmagic likes this.
  23. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,870
    Likes Received:
    1,076

    Nov 22, 2018

    Getting to school at a certain time does not teach someone to meet deadlines... Please don’t take this the wrong way, but that doesn’t even make sense to think that that would make sense.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  24. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,682
    Likes Received:
    1,582

    Nov 22, 2018

    Of course it makes sense. You have a certain time where you must have certain things done. That is a deadline. It just isn't a paperwork deadline or a studying deadline. I have a list of many things that must be done in the morning. So do kids. They have to get up, get dressed, personal hygiene, and eat. They also have to plan sufficient time to get to school or the bus. It is a time they have to meet which is a deadline. Some days they have more to do before going to school than others.

    How does that not make sense?
     
    mathmagic likes this.
  25. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,870
    Likes Received:
    1,076

    Nov 22, 2018

    I see what you mean now, but let’s agree to disagree on this one.
     
  26. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,682
    Likes Received:
    1,582

    Nov 23, 2018

    You do know that prefacing something with "Please don't take this the wrong way" doesn't absolve you of calling someone stupid.

    Please tell me why work has to be homework to teach deadlines? Why can't class projects be used? Also, why do people have to be punished to learn?
     
  27. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,870
    Likes Received:
    1,076

    Nov 23, 2018

    I’m by no means calling you stupid. I actually think you are very intelligent so I apologize for my terseness.

    I don’t understand why do you think real-life consequences are out of the question. What is the purpose of education?

    Do you think governments subsidize public education in order to raise the next generation of engineers, doctors, lawyers, teachers, scientists, inventors, businessmen and women etc., etc., or just for enlightenment purposes?

    Education is there to prepare you for the workforce and so you can become a *responsible* and contributory member of society. An educated populace can make better, more informed decisions.

    I don’t think homework on its own is meant to teach students about deadlines, but it the best method of doing so, IMO.

    I normally don’t quote other people, BUT two persons from a teaching blogpost I found online can explain it much better than I can:

    “Can I hand in my quarter grades whenever I want? Can I be unprepared or "forget about" parent-teacher conferences? Can I complete my tax forms at my convenience? Can I use an expired coupon? Can I say, "I know that the sale was last week, but I had a lot on my mind"? Can I change my child's diapers when I get around to it, or does it need to be done when it is necessary?

    There are deadlines that are concrete in life and I believe that we are doing our students a great disservice if we give them the impression that there aren't.”

    Another poster said this:

    “We have to accept late work where I teach. This gets frustrating because this goes up until the last day for entering grades. The students have become so comfortable with this that they will wait until the last minute to submit work because they know that it will be accepted. This has only hurt the students rather than help them.”
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
  28. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,419
    Likes Received:
    1,172

    Nov 23, 2018

    Initial reply to OP: I would consider what your core goal is with homework. If it's solely for students to show that they can follow your directions, then have a steep mark off for late or don't accept late work. If it's for meaning - such as your desire for them to engage in content or extra practice that would enrich their studies - then consider having a more lenient policy, while making sure that that policy is such that it maintains that meaning. For example, if your goal is to get them additional practice with an algorithm, perhaps allow late work until the test, at which point it's a 0.

    If you understand and can share with students the meaning behind your plan, then you'll get the most out of it, rather than just creating a random plan that meets arbitrary requirements.


    http://www.ascd.org/publications/ne.../num07/What-Is-the-Purpose-of-Education¢.aspx
    It's not as clear as you think.

    I think most would agree this is a part of it (but most likely won't agree that this is even close to all), but a late policy specifically won't significantly change this. Heck, granted I'm at elementary, but if I notice my students are working extremely hard, I'll move deadlines. My admin understands how busy we are, and while she expects to have most of the stuff on time, those things that won't cause a domino effect of sorts (i.e. our self-reflection at the beginning of the year), she's a bit more flexible, so long as we get it done as soon as we can.

    It goes back to the idea of reading and reading requirements: I'd rather students develop a long-term love of reading such that they're doing it all the time (connecting to HW: I'd rather they engage in additional practice/learning opportunities out of a desire to grow) rather than just doing it because it's an assignment (HW: rather than just doing it because it was given to them...no learning needing to happen ouside of that).
     
    a2z likes this.
  29. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,870
    Likes Received:
    1,076

    Nov 23, 2018

    I can agree with a number of points you’ve raised here. With that said, the vast majority of deadlines should still be met. And *I’m* largely referencing the students who frequently don’t turn in their work by the due date. That’s unacceptable and they should be penalized for it. The students who show up to class prepared, ready to learn, and who turn in their completed assignments on time and to the instructor’s satisfaction should NOT receive the same grade as a student who turns it in weeks late and incomplete because they just “couldn’t find the time” or because they “had a lot on their plate.”

    Judges, for example, do not accept paperwork from either the prosecutorial team or defense team if it’s submitted even hours past the due date.

    The recent Floridian vote recount was rejected because it was submitted 2 minutes past the deadline.

    If you won the lottery and didn’t submit your winning ticket within 180 days, then it’s voided. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. That’s life.

    It doesn’t help students if they learn that they have unlimited redos in life. It only hinders them. Sure, they may pass, but they end up being grade levels behind and not mastering material they would have otherwise had we held them to higher standards. This is akin to passing students along to the next grade even though they have straight D’s and/or F’s.
     
  30. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,682
    Likes Received:
    1,582

    Nov 23, 2018

    You are right. It isn't like you can take the Praxis over and over until you pass. That would just be insane!
     
  31. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,870
    Likes Received:
    1,076

    Nov 23, 2018

    Exception again, not the rule. You need to stop looking for the exceptions to make your case and look at the numerous other examples I’ve put forth that counter that.

    Texas, now, thankfully only allows 5 attempts for their teacher certification tests and I hope other states will follow suit.

    Do you get a second chance to make a first impression? Do you get a second chance at a job interview if you come in unprepared and forget your talking points?
     
  32. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,682
    Likes Received:
    1,582

    Nov 23, 2018

    Because you say so? I can come up with a huge list of examples where people get multiple chances in many professions. In fact, many times they would rather things correct than done because many times quality is most important. While deadlines might be important, a boss will fire you quicker for meeting a deadline and providing crap than missing the deadline, especially talking to them first, and doing a good job.

    Sure, you can find a few things where deadlines are hard set, but even for them, most have ways to extend deadlines. Taxes? You can file a form giving you an extension. Sure, you still have to pay the taxes and might even have to pay additional, but you can file later. You can even pay with that form if you expect you will owe. So, you don't exactly have to meet the deadline with what was originally expected. Hmmm - late or incomplete homework do you say? Additional time. Did you know you can also re-file if you made a mistake? If it is in your favor you get a refund! Imagine. Not as black and white, is it?

    Court? Lawyers file for extensions all the time. It is actually commonplace, particularly in some types of law.

    No, you don't get a second chance for the first impression by definition. But the phrase implies that people can't see you differently, which is incorrect. And yes, sometimes you do get that second chance at an interview if there is a good reason or the company just needs your skill desperately. It doesn't always happen with low paying jobs where there is a glut int he market of people to hire, but it sure does the more specific your skills are.
     
    mathmagic likes this.
  33. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,870
    Likes Received:
    1,076

    Nov 23, 2018

    Touché.

    Yes, you may get a “redo” for a highly specialized field, but would the common person? Most definitely not.

    I would argue that there are more concrete and stringent deadlines in life that are inflexible than flexible ones. Like in statistics, we look at the majority and what makes a representative sample, not exceptions.

    What woud you say to that?
     
  34. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,419
    Likes Received:
    1,172

    Nov 23, 2018

    I'd argue life is about flexibility rather than inflexibility, and that we could all come up with dozens of examples for both sides. Perhaps it's best to just recognize that they simply both exist in numerous cases.

    I could go into a discussion about basic retail jobs and mistakes not leading to immediate firing, but the point is, this becomes a pointless, circular "argument".
     
  35. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,485
    Likes Received:
    1,020

    Nov 23, 2018

    @futuremathsprof

    It sounds like your new boss may be the type to make you accept late work
     
  36. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,870
    Likes Received:
    1,076

    Nov 23, 2018

    I would begrudgingly do it, but I would not write any recommendation letters or refer students to be recipients of accolades as I always remember the students who work hard and those who do not. And should said student(s) ever ask for a favor of me, they will find I will be less inclined to give them one.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  37. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    281

    Nov 24, 2018

    Taking off marks for late work or not accepting late work in my view is discriminatory against certain groups of students. Some kids have everything going for them in their life (nice house, good clothes, parents that will drive their lunch to school if they forget it) and others don't have all that privilege. To penalize kids who already have 100 things they have to overcome every day makes access to education very inequitable.

    My primary goal is for my kids to learn. They may need to learn things through different avenues. Teaching things like submitting work on time is important but I can teach this without taking off late marks.

    And before anyone says 'oh but I allow kids with exceptional circumstances to hand things in late' I know there are kids in every one of our classes where we don't know the whole story AND requiring kids to share their story to get a 'pass' is another form of inequity. Kids shouldn't have to tell their life story to be treated fairly.
     
    MrsC likes this.
  38. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,485
    Likes Received:
    1,020

    Nov 24, 2018

    I can usually go along with most of the PC things and just nod my head, but this argument is a bit over the top. By this logic, giving these kids tests or quizzes would be discriminatory as well.

    My policy is simple: If a kid can get an A on my test without doing homework, then I will give them an automatic "A" average in the homework category because they clearly didn't need the practice to achieve success.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  39. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    281

    Nov 24, 2018

    Well where I teach we really don't use quizzes. We use conversations, observations and products - so tests are a small component of the products.

    But ultimately, our kids have to demonstrate standards I don't care how they demonstrate those standards.

    If they don't do well on a standard on a test but demonstrate that standard some other way, I use the other way to determine their grade.

    Ultimately, some of our kids are going to have advantages that others don't. That's just reality. What I am willing to do is try to decrease rather than increase the inequity through how I teach and assess.
     
    mathmagic likes this.
  40. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,870
    Likes Received:
    1,076

    Nov 24, 2018

    I agree with this. I had a student who got 100% on my AP Calc BC final last year and came in to tutoring for several weeks in a row because he had a B and wanted to end with an A. I was very proud of him and gave him an A+ even though he occasionally turned in the homework. He demonstrated complete mastery and showed me he learned the material like he should.

    To Always Learning, taking off points for lateness is discriminatory?! Pfft, lol. Ridiculous.
     
  41. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    281

    Nov 24, 2018

    FMP, when I said your posts read to me as "I'm better than you" these "Pfft, lol. Ridiculous" comments are what I was talking about.

    I believe that taking off late marks is discriminatory. I know it makes people uncomfortable for that to be said. It is easy to just say its an insane perspective. You don't have to agree but it might be worth considering the perspective rather than dismissing it outright.
     
    a2z and mathmagic like this.

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. ally06,
  2. catnfiddle,
  3. vickilyn,
  4. blazer
Total: 523 (members: 6, guests: 498, robots: 19)
test