Just found out they hired someone else

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by lamariposa, Aug 10, 2016.

  1. lamariposa

    lamariposa Rookie

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    For the first half of last school year I took over a VPK classroom for someone who was on leave but would be retiring this year. I have to say, it was honestly one of the best teaching and work experiences in my life. From the first day, the VPK para and I clicked on such a level. And I just fell into routine with the rest of the grade level and the Kindergarten grade level (we worked closely to lesson plan etc). When my assignment was over, the AP, PreK team and school secretary were all so happy and looked forward to me coming back when the teacher retired. Before the school year finished, I revisited the school, spoke to the AP, met the retiring teacher and ended up getting her recommendation as well. The told me to go speak to the principal, which I did and I thanked her for letting me work in the school and tried to sell myself, leave a good impression, etc.

    Fast forward this whole summer, I've been waiting to hear from them. The AP was working at another school for the summer but managed to speak to her and she said she'd find out when she visited the school site. I've been walking that thin line of not wanting to seem pushy or pestering anyone but also wanting to know the status. Well, I found out today that the principal hired someone else for that teaching position. Not only that, but she hired 10 new teachers in total. I'm not gonna lie, I feel gutted. Not only because I didn't get the PreK job, but because apparently there were 9 other positions I wasn't even considered for. The AP, whom I spoke to, seemed very apologetic and kinda in shock herself (she just got back this week) and I just thanked her for letting me know and that hopefully we can work together in the future.

    I'm just...idk. I know nothing was promised and obviously principal's have the last say in who gets hired. But it's hard not to take this so personal and start questioning myself and my teaching skills. I feel shame. I feel resentment. Like I should just give up on this career and try to move away from it.

    I'm going to continue to apply and interview. I'll try not to take it too personal. All my reviews and observations are always high and every principal I have worked for has told me to use them as a recommendation. Which is why I've been able to work as a 3100 or take on long-sub assignments through word of mouth from principal's calling each other. So in a way that helps me when I feel worthless but it also makes me feel down about not having found permanent employment yet.

    Ugh. I just needed to vent to people who'd understand.
     
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  3. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    That's why I created this thread: http://forums.atozteacherstuff.com/...nt-frustration-venting-support-thread.197318/

    It does suck because you feel like you proved yourself and made the connections and it almost feels like a "sure thing," but then reality hits. I'm sure our coach felt the same way when he wasn't hired to be the AP this year. They really were grooming him and he thought he had it in the bag. You just never know. But it really does suck that they didn't even consider you for ANY of the open positions they had. But if that's how they're going to do you, cut your losses and move on. There's probably something better around the corner anyway.

    :D:handfist::handwaving:
     
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  4. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I can see why this would be upsetting. I would be very upset, too.
     
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  5. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Sorry this happened to you. Never leave anything to chance-had you seen the other 9 positions posted? Did the P have your resume, cover and letters of rec? None of this is your fault...just learn from this experience. Get those resumes and applications out today- there are still schools with Unfilled positions. Good luck to you.
     
  6. newteacher99

    newteacher99 Rookie

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    I'll say it again...
    Schools are unprofessional and short sighted. They are using public funds and act like they are private sector. Most of them wouldo not last a day in Corp America. They are petty and I wish I could report them all for wasting taxpayer money.

    Why are they not hiring the best candidate? They hire their BFF and friends kids. How does this help the students?
     
  7. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    This really stinks!! I'm so sorry. I would ask the AP for a reference at least since she did seem to think you did well there.
     
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  8. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    I don't understand your thoughts here. We don't know if the OP applied for any of the ten jobs, nor do we know if the P had her resume to consider for the VPK job. There was no indication by the OP that BFFs and friends' kids were hired. It's most likely the P hired the best candidates out of the pool of resumes and applications submitted.
    What exactly do you think is going on in corporate situations that is so much better?
     
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  9. newteacher99

    newteacher99 Rookie

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    I don't understand your thoughts here. We don't know if the OP applied for any of the ten jobs, nor do we know if the P had her resume to consider for the VPK job. There was no indication by the OP that BFFs and friends' kids were hired. It's most likely the P hired the best candidates out of the pool of resumes and applications submitted.
    What exactly do you think is going on in corporate situations that is so much better?





    I think that people are at least given a chance in Corp America since there is a bottom line and you have to perform. There is little if any nepotism. There are checks and balances to make sure that it doesn't happen. If you can do the job, you at least have A CHANCE to get hired. The private sector pays for the public sector, so the school has no right to discriminate against anyone. I am constantly amazed at the unprofessionalism of so many administrators and teachers. I can't believe that they don't even inform you of the results of the interview. This is unheard of outside of education. I said the stuff about the friends and BFFs as an off the cuff example, I didn't say there was evidence of the P doing that. See what I mean? There was also no indication that the P hired the best candidate from the pool of applicants, since you are trying to prove things.

    You probably teach in a nice situation, so you don't see the ugliness. Also, if you have tenure, you don't have the stress of constantly looking for a job. Remember, this is PUBLIC MONEY, and the schools are not their private kingdom. Ps sometime act like the schools are their private business, and I have seen plenty of Ps and Supers who commit crimes. So don't pretend that they are all angels from heaven. They are supposed to follow the law. I am entitled to my thoughts and I am planning doing something about this unfairness.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
  10. Milsey

    Milsey Habitué

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    The best person for the job doesn't always get the job. Often P's are bowled over by candidates' looks. Candidates get jobs because they can coach a sport that's important to the school.
     
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  11. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    Damn! I guess I better learn polo!
     
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  12. lamariposa

    lamariposa Rookie

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    No I didn't even know there were any other positions open at the school and I can't figure out how I would have. They were not posted on the job listings site and at no point did anyone tell me anything. The AP was APing at another school for the summer but when I spoke to her told me she hadn't heard the Principal had anyone else in mind either to bring in new or move into Prek and that it was a good sign in my favor. My district is using TeacherMatch but I honestly am not comfortable with just being a profile online so I always carry all my paperwork with me. Not only had I worked in the school previously, but the principal had hard copies along with the profile. I also had taken 8 professional developments that were specific to PreK since I had worked at a school that was on probation for the program and they required everyone to take these classes. IDK I'm just crestfallen. But I'm just going to have to accept that I didn't get it and move on. Thank you for your well wishes :)
     
  13. lamariposa

    lamariposa Rookie

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    I didn't apply to any of the jobs because I didn't even know they were open. My district does TeacherMatch but their job listings are very generic like 'Elementary - south' meaning they are looking an elementary teacher for the south part of the district. (The district is big so they've split it into 3: north, central and south). So if when you created your profile you selected 'elementary south' then you will be in a pool of resumes that principals can look over. It's very impersonal and 'cold'. Most principals, from what I understand, only peruse those listings if they honestly can't find someone on their own. Our best bet is still to drop off resumes in person and try to make an impression. But honestly, this whole thing has created a situation where Principals will not post openings but will instead look internally or ask other Principals if they know someone or as NewTeacher99 said 'BFFs and friends' kids'.

    In this case, not only had I worked under the Principal the first half of the year, she had my resume, cover letter, Prek-3rd certification, Gold Standards Certification (a separate Certification VPK teachers were mandated to get) and proof of the 8 PDs I'd done that were specific to VPK. The previous year I worked at a low performing school where the VPK program was under POP (Provider On Probation) and my students performed well when they were tested upon entering Kindergarten. So honestly, I'm not trying to be mean but I feel I was the most qualified person to that specific position. Still, I do understand that sometimes Principals have to move people around and have other issues at hand they must address when filling positions. But I have a really hard time accepting, and my self-esteem has taken a bit of a hit, that I wouldn't even be considered for any of those other jobs.

    I don't know, maybe I just need to give myself a couple of days to get over it and move on. I am glad I found this board and can write how I feel and get comments back that help me think and reflect.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
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  14. lamariposa

    lamariposa Rookie

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    There is a lot of truth in what you are saying, about Principals treating their schools like a private business. Because I honestly feel like a temp worker. Someone who's hired only fill-in. But is never really considered past that. This is the 2nd time this happened to me. I filled in the prior year for someone who went on maternity leave. When her leave was up, she decided to not come back. And the Principal replaced her with the Media Specialist who happen to have the PreK-3rd certification but had been working in the library for the past 11 years. He didn't want to add another teacher to the school budget so he just moved her and the school still doesn't have a media specialist. The lady didn't want the job and I, who wanted it so badly, was left out. Never mind that the VPK program was already on probation for 2 years and risking removal. Wouldn't it had made sense for those kids to have someone with experience and training to work with them? It didn't even have to be me. It was a huge disservice to those children. And the program remains on probation :(
     
  15. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    With Applitrack, you can have an application and all of your information on file, but if you do NOT go in and physically check the box for each vacancy you want to be considered for, your information is NOT considered, despite your qualifications. Staying on top of what is being offered, and then actively editing the information on file to specify which position you are applying for is SOP. Not what you wanted to hear, but I am really savvy on how these systems work. Somewhere, some place, they are listing their vacancies, and if you want the job, you must check the box, or resend the application every time. Seems foolish, but it is true.

    I am going to say that it doesn't matter which online submission system they use - the rules will be virtually identical. Sorry.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
  16. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I'm sorry that this has been your experience. It has not been mine. I think it's unfair to classify this as a "schools" issue, when really it seems quite site-specific.

    I also think that you are idealizing corporate America. There are plenty (plenty!) of examples of nepotism and unfair hiring practices to be found in the private sector.
     
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  17. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    Very cynical of me, but after this year and a lot of crap I've witnessed, I am very skeptical of admin and say, "A lot don't give a damn about what's best for children" or if they do, it's low priority because of lot of decisions made directly contradict best practices. It was April during state testing when they called my friend into the office to let her know she was getting the boot and she had to leave that day. Her kids had taken the state test and then her fourth grade class was left without a teacher from April - May. They didn't even try to get a LT sub or anything so the kids went without a teacher for all that time. They separated the kids and split them into our rooms for all that time. One of our instructional coaches (who usually just sat on his ass in his office doing work for his master's) had taught forth grade for years and talking to my team I said, "Why don't they put C back in there? He TAUGHT that grade before!" They all thought it was a good idea. But the school didn't do this. Instead the kids just missed out on most of their 4th quarter education in 4th grade. They put one of the other coaches back into 8th grade, and yet didn't put him in 4th. And it's not like he actually did his job (train teachers) so what's the point? That guy was all talk, no action when it came to teaching. He would tell us about how "wonderful" he was with classroom management and didn't hesitate to jump on us over things we did, but when we asked him to come in and MODEL some best practice, he was all excuses. He once said --in a meeting -- that "If I came in and taught, it wouldn't be the same because our management styles are different and I haven't spent the year bonding with the kids." While true, is still a cop out! His JOB was to provide us with any help we needed-- modeling lessons included-- but I started to realize he was full of BS! He did a lot of PD where he loved to hear himself talk, but it was pretty much common knowledge that he was a big joke. The veteran teachers(who had 20+ years of experience) would always just scoff and laugh about him. He taught for only 3 years and then was "chosen" to be a model for the school. He had a very cushy job (seriously he was always in his office doing master's work or decorating the library or hallways or some other crap) and was pissed when he didn't get the AP job that he thought was going to be handed to him. Sorry, buddy! He even addressed the criticism one time in a PD and said, "I decorate because it's important to me."
    We don't get to use school time to just redecorate our rooms... :roll:

    LOL
    :):rofl::toofunny:
     
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  18. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

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    The difference being is that Corporate America doesn't have to be nearly as transparent as public schools. Yes, I think there are a lot of lies in schools...but Corporate America is pretty shady too.
     
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  19. jadorelafrance

    jadorelafrance Cohort

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    My dad has been searching for jobs in the private sectors for more than a year now and with many of his interviews he never heard a peep from them afterwards (not even a rejection letter). It's a tough market, public and private, and many employers don't get back to all their interviewees. It's not just an education thing.
     
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  20. newteacher99

    newteacher99 Rookie

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    I agree that the private sector is not perfect. BUT, they are not using taxpayer money to hire their friends and relatives. Before you jump on me I realize that this is not the case everywhere but it is more common than you think. Remember, they are using my tax money for this. As for the private sector at least they are not using my tax money! Principals have no right to act like a bunch of unprofessional fools with my tax money.
     
  21. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I guess I'd be interested in seeing statistics that support your claim that this is more of a problem than not. I just don't believe that a majority or even a large minority of principals and schools operate this way.
     
  22. newteacher99

    newteacher99 Rookie

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    Not going on and on about this. You cannot prove your claim either with statistics. However, since schools are using my money I want them to be very transparent and fair.
     
  23. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    I agree with Ceasar. With test scores being front page news and how Ps are hired and fired, I don't think it's such as widespread as it might seem. Ps want to look good just like everyone else.
     
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  24. FourSquare

    FourSquare Fanatic

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    OP, something to consider: Did you really want to work for a school that had TEN vacancies to fill? That seems a little suspicious to me, even in a large building. Why did so many people jump ship?
     
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  25. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    We are one of the most competitive schools in our district and we had about that many openings this year. A few teachers moved out of state (we are a military area, so that's pretty normal) and a few others retired. A couple decided they wanted to teach a different age. A few got promoted into administration. That much turnover is normal in some areas.
     
  26. jen12

    jen12 Devotee

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    I spent over ten years as a recruiter and HR rep in Corporate America, and I promise you, nepotism is a huge thing in that world. When I worked for a small company, relatives of employees would be hired without question. Then I moved to a larger company and the justification from the hiring managers was that they trusted the judgement of the current employees, so if they referred someone, that person had to be good. It was unfortunate, because there were probably just as many talented people applying who didn't happen to know someone within the company.
    When I was student teaching, it was just as the recession was hitting and the only new teacher at the school I was at was the granddaughter of the super's best friend. She'd just finished her teacher prep program and had no experience. Of course, she claimed she got there on her own merit. This year I met another new teacher who had just finished student teaching and was hired at the school where she student taught. Considering that there are about 250 applications for every position posted in this district, it seemed odd to hire someone who was so inexperienced, especially when there is a long line of support teachers working part time applying for full time positions. Then I found out her mother is a middle school teacher in the district.
    So..yeah...who you know is qualification number one in any employment situation these days.
     
  27. TeacherWhoRuns

    TeacherWhoRuns Companion

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    Weird stuff goes on at different levels. I know a school that had an opening last year, but the principal was told from the district that she'd be getting a transfer and wasn't able to fill it herself. There was some sort of lawsuit going on that involved the teacher suing the district, so they were required to hold a position for her. The teacher never ended up starting the position and it was held all year with a long term sub who was told each month that they'd need her another month. The grade level team was never given much information because admin was afraid they'd end up being dragged into the court case.
    That doesn't really explain 10 positions, but it gives some insight into the lack of transparency that occurs.
     
  28. mathteachertobe

    mathteachertobe Cohort

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    Why wouldn't/shouldn't a school hire a strong student teacher they have seen teach over the course of a year/semester, over a random applicant they can only evaluate based on pieces of paper and a conversation? That's not nepotism, that's common sense.
     
  29. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

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    I disagree. I'm elementary there's ways to get around this, first being that you hire this person they know into a non testing grade. Plus you help support your staff the first few years years anyways.

    Let's not forget that all teachers in my state and city have to be certified, and we don't have alt route where we just pass a test to teach in an area, schooling is needed. So all teachers have passed courses and degrees with a 3.0 at the very least. Most people that go for teaching degrees that can't cut it are weeded out in the process. Are there people that pass through and aren't meant for teaching because their delivery isn't there? Sure but by the time they completed everything it's far less. So in my states eyes everyone who is certified is capable of doing the job.

    I have seen on my school's yearly plan that is posted online for everyone to see the list of how they plan to recruit new teachers and referrals from staff is listed, along with recruiting all the other ways. I'm sure other schools have similar listings. I will say my school hasn't made nepotism the reason you got a job, but it surely has landed you an interview.

    But I've gotten a job before and accepted only to be told a few days later the chairman of the board wants us to interview his niece for the position sorry our hands are tied. Guess who got the job? It surely wasn't me.
     
  30. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    Does it matter who you know, anywhere, when looking for a job? I offer up the huge success of LinkedIn as proof that referrals and the inside track are perceived to matter, whether that is the case in fact, or not. In teaching, where the rubber hits the road, anyone who gets the job has to keep it, with evaluations that are becoming less varied by who is evaluating all the time. Getting your foot in the door isn't the same in education, in many ways, because of these mandatory evaluations weed out the ones who shouldn't have been hired in the first place. If the "foot in the door" candidate is smart, savvy, hard-working, and dedicated, they can earn their spot with stellar evaluations. It isn't who gets the job, in many cases, but who can KEEP the job once they are there.

    It's kind of like weeding the garden:
    You see a plant that looks like it could be offspring of your favorite bloomer, but as the season wears on, you come to recognize that you were fooled. :eek: This is no daylily, but instead you recognize it as an invasive weed that is indistinguishable from the real deal in the beginning. I can guarantee that although the "foot in the door" got you a foothold, the evaluation gets you to the garbage heap with no regrets. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    I think those who hire, over the years, may have some insight into whether or not the "foot in the door" will become a keeper or end up in the garbage heap. I don't begrudge anyone the interview, I don't even begrudge anyone coming in who buckles down and does an outstanding job. But I also don't believe that the job will go to "the foot in the door" just because of who they know as consistently as believed. I have a little more faith in the system, I guess.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
  31. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Bit of a rant ahead...

    I work for one of the largest school boards in Ontario; other than teachers qualified to teach French, there have been no outside hires for many years. The time it takes to get a permanent position is usually measured in years not months. New contract teachers are hired from the list of teachers who are eligible for Long Term assignments. In order to be eligible for Long Term assignments, you need to have successfully completed a certain number of days as a day-to-day sub. There is a hiring process for daily subs a couple of times a year (application, reference check and an interview with a panel of principals). Who you know may help get your name forward, but will not get you hired at any stage.

    However....if you are in an area where who you know matters, you need to make yourself known. Sub, and be a phenomenal sub. Be phenomenal in the classroom and see what you can do to help out around the school. Don't take a planning period and help in another class. Help out with supervision duty. Offer to shelve books in the library on your lunch hour. Introduce yourself to the admin team and the secretaries. At the end of the day, speak to them again and let them know how much you look forward to being back in the school. Volunteer to help out with after-school clubs or practices. Start an after school club (in my school, you would need to pay for a permit to use space in the building). Volunteer in a school on days you aren't subbing. Teachers here who are trying to obtain a contract position do all of those things. If you have decided that you won't get hired because you don't know anyone, you may end up being right. What can you do to change that?
     
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  32. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    Exactly! YOU have to sell yourself and become part of the school's fabric. They have to see you in action as "one of them" in order to really want to have you working in there some day so it's like a natural progression. If you're awkward or weird or unhelpful or stand-offish, etc., and you're not really believable as one of the team members, you probably never will be.
    Also, Canada, eh? :) I live across the Border and we had MANY Canadians in our grad program because it's apparently "well known and respected" up there. And yeah, I heard it's like IMPOSSIBLE to get a teaching gig up there and the process is very strict and legit so many don't. A lot of my classmates just continued working as bartenders or whatever and never ended up getting a classroom.
     
  33. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

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    Mrs. C at least the process for obtaining a job in Canada is very clear cut, despite the fact that it's a lot of hoops to go through. But you're right, what can you do to change how people "know" you? In small towns this might be easier to accomplish.

    Sometimes here if you impress one P, they will forward your resume to other P's who have open positions. I've had friends get jobs that way straight from student teaching or subbing. While it might not be straight up nepotism, it is a game of who you know and who will vouch for you.
     
  34. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Aug 14, 2016

    While the steps are listed may be particular to my area, the need to make yourself known and make an impression is valid everywhere. I'm not in a small town; the town I live in has close to 100 000 people and my school board has over 200 schools and close to 125 000 students; I'm 45 minutes from a major city. Everything that I listed is just a tiny bit of what people are doing here in order to start their way through those hoops.
     
  35. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Aug 14, 2016

    Agreed.
     
  36. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Aug 14, 2016

    It comes down to this:

    If you are a good teacher with great references and great evals and you interview well, you should be okay. It's even better if you can stack the deck in your favor by making connections and networking. Networking is essential in corporate America, too, so let's not act like it's some big taboo, corrupt thing.

    I've never gotten a teaching job because I had connections. I have gotten all my teaching jobs because I have a strong resume and I interview very well. Honestly, people can't not love me. :D I am not threatened by the idea that maybe some principal somewhere might demonstrate hiring practices that are not entirely on the up and up. I can't control others, but I can definitely control myself and all the awesome things that I bring to the table--my enthusiasm, my content knowledge, my willingness to learn, my desire to be a great educator. If a principal doesn't want what I have to offer because he has an inexperienced niece who wants to be a teacher, well, I can't control that. I don't worry about that, and you shouldn't either.

    Move on. Let it be. Develop your resume, references, and interview skills. Be willing to work in positions that might not be your top tier, number one slots. Be willing to commute or move. Be willing to work your way up. Stop playing the victim and blaming others for you not getting a job. (Of course this is directed at general "you", not anyone in particular.)
     
  37. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    Aug 14, 2016

    Caesar, just out of curiosity, is the teaching shortage where you are just as large, or has the deficit lessened? I know someone who might consider relocating, and I thought of your posts in your district's behalf.
     
  38. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Aug 14, 2016

    It's not as large as it has been the past couple of years, but there are still open jobs. Last I heard (maybe two weeks ago?) there were around 350 available jobs. That number will likely grow once school starts.

    Feel free to PM me for more information. I'm always happy to help!
     
  39. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Aug 15, 2016

    Amen.
     
    bella84 and PallasAthena like this.
  40. newteacher99

    newteacher99 Rookie

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    Aug 15, 2016

    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
    As usual the people with the cushy situations keep sticking up for the "fair and unbiased" principals and superintendents. In my state, many supers have been indicted for embezzling(one for one million plus), and one for a false doctorate. I have proof of this but I refuse to post it. Suffice to say, it is there. The three who keep denying this is true can keep denying, but I know the truth of the matter. I have all of the necessary qualifications but unfortunately ageism is at play. Stay in denial if you like.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
  41. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Aug 15, 2016

    "Cushy situations"? I mean, do you have any idea what type of school environment I have worked in for the past decade?

    [​IMG]
     

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