Job Dilemma

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Ms.Holyoke, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    Yes, I really want this job. I think it might actually be more work and planning which in willing to do because I can really see myself growing more as a teacher here. Classes are smaller (capped at 30, most are around 24) and I get the sense that the behavior is better. The salary is better by a bit too. It is still a Title 1 school and it seems like a good “middle ground” for me. The commute is better too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  2. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    They aren't contacting you until Monday? I like the advice that Waterfall gave you concerning this school contacting your principal.
     
  3. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    So I met with the principal today and I generally like it. I think the job will be challenging but I can see there being lots of opportunities for growth.

    I asked the principal to contact two of my references first. If he will wants to proceed, I said I will email my principal to ask for a reference. The two questions that he said he would ask are about classroom management and differentiation. I am a little concerned because I feel like those are my weaknesses.
     
  4. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    I would proceed with this job. Your "gut" is telling you that this is what you want. You were a first year teacher right? Was it about like the others that were first year teachers? Was your principal always on you about management? Did you have 35 kids? (Can't remember) Differentiation would be extremely difficult with that many.

    Was the job offered to you pending the conversation with your principal? Were you their first choice? Like Waterfall said, I would want to know that before preceding to recommendation from your principal.
     
  5. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    Yes. I had two classes with 34 kids in them. Out of all of my 3 classes, I had little to no management issues with two of them and I had issues with one of them. I actually told the principal that I had big classes and learned a lot from one of my classes because they were challenging. This was never negatively reflected on my evaluations however. I was told that I needed to differentiate more on my evaluations...but again the # of kids I had made that difficult. I definitely had similar management issues with other first year teachers. I know some first year teachers who struggled much more than me.

    The principal said that they would extend an offer pending references. They aren’t calling references at all for the other candidate yet as I’m the first choice. He also says that just as I am trusting him, he is trusting me that I am not interviewing anywhere else. I sent him the two references first and he said he will email me when he checks them and wants to proceed and then I’ll let my current principal know. I will make a pro con list for the position below :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  6. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    New Position Pros:
    -smaller classes!! They are capped at 30 but are usually around 24-25 kids.
    -lots of opportunity for PD. The principal said that if I wanted, I could meet with the math coach (who is leaving this position) to share ideas, etc. I could see myself growing a lot as a teacher here.
    -We get 40 mins of intervention time with our kids to pull struggling learners, have kids make up tests, etc.
    -There is no tracking. So I wouldn’t end up with all of the low kids, for example. This is a pro and a con because I would have to differentiate. But the principal told me that a 1/3 of my class would be like the kids that I did the demo (very respectful, high skills) for which would be AMAZING because very few of my kids are like that now. I think I would have much better classroom management with fewer kids and if I had less “heavy hitters.”
    -The position is stable. The person leaving the position is moving to a coaching role.
    -better commute

    New Position Cons:
    -The classes are about 10 mins shorter.
    -I would have much less prep time...only 40 mins per day.
    -I would have to teach intervention and I’m not super familiar with, especially for younger grades. I would have 3 40 minute groups daily. I was told that the coach would share lots of resources with me. I’m a little concerned because I would have to make the schedule, etc. and it seems like a lot to prep for. However, I love the idea of working with kids in small groups and I think it would be a great way to end the day. The principal said that he’s basiallt hiring for 6th grade math and not to worry about the intervention.
    -I love that there’s no tracking but I also know that I’d need to differentiate more.
    -The student population is different and I am sure I’ll have to deal with more helicopter parents.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  7. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    Okay, let's look at the cons:
    *10 minute shorter classes. Schedules/period lengths are different for many schools. The school I'm in has periods for 46 minutes except for the period that has lunches.
    *Prep time also varies where you are. In my school, we get one planning period a day which is 46 minutes unless you get the period for lunches. Then it is 50 minutes and you never lose it for shortened days, etc. Yes, you are expected to sub if needed during your plan period. Meetings are usually not scheduled during this time.
    *Is the intervention for math? Obviously that is your strength. Do you have to follow a specific intervention? . You will figure this out. Is different but will provide some variance to your day. I would guess that the intervention is math.
    *Less kids makes it easier to differentiate. You will also get the hang of what this school wants you to do.
    These are not cons but questions that i have:
    I'm guessing there is an intervention coach and then a math coach. You said the math coach was leaving. Is the person who had your position the new math coach or the intervention coach? Actually sounds like a lot of support. Do you meet with the 6th grade team?
    Are you the only math person for 6th grade? Do the lower grades of math also do interventions like this position?
    Sounds to me that you may be teaching more math along the way by the comment from the principal that he was hiring basically for 6th grade math.
    Good luck! I think this job is for you. Do you know anyone at this school? They might give you more information.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2019
  8. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    Sorry about the attached file. I hit something and now can't get rid of it. Can anyone hellp?
     
  9. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Fixed. If this happens again, go into your post to edit it, then choose the More Options... tab at the bottom of the composition window: that will take you to a page on which you can delete an attached file.
     
  10. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    Okay, let's look at the cons:
    *10 minute shorter classes. Schedules/period lengths are different for many schools. The school I'm in has periods for 46 minutes except for the period that has lunches.
    True!! I will get used to it.

    *Prep time also varies where you are. In my school, we get one planning period a day which is 46 minutes unless you get the period for lunches. Then it is 50 minutes and you never lose it for shortened days, etc. Yes, you are expected to sub if needed during your plan period. Meetings are usually not scheduled during this time.
    Especially since I might have more to plan for, it might be hard getting used to 40 mins. But I’m assuming I won’t have to grade as much!

    *Is the intervention for math? Obviously that
    These are not cons but questions that i have:

    Yes, it’s math intervention but with younger kids! I would have kids from grades 2-5. I would make the groups based on test scores and have kids with 6 week cycles.

    I'm guessing there is an intervention coach and then a math coach. You said the math coach was leaving. Is the person who had your position the new math coach or the intervention coach? Actually sounds like a lot of support. Do you meet with the 6th grade team?

    There is no intervention coach. The person who used to have this position is transitioning to coaching, which is why it’s open.

    Are you the only math person for 6th grade?
    Yes.

    Do the lower grades of math also do interventions like this position?
    I would be doing math interventions for the lower grades.

    Sounds to me that you may be teaching more math along the way by the comment from the principal that he was hiring basically for 6th grade math.

    Agreed. He said he actually used to have grad students do the interventions as volunteers but he wanted a teacher to do it a few years ago and changed the position.

    I personally wasn’t sure how I feel about the principal. A few comments he made threw me off a bit. Firstly, he said that “teachers at this school work very hard and the best part about the school is our staff. Your contract is 8-2:30 but almost everyone stays late or comes early and we expect you to be here.” With these hours, I would probably come early (I’m used to being up early and I like getting to work early) and stay 30 mins late, but I prefer to lesson plan at home and be ready rather than stay at school until 5 or 6. He also told me what his “pet peeves” are which are yelling at the kids and blaming the kids.


    I think the composition of my classes might be my biggest change. The kids in my demo were sent in voluntarily by parents and were all very high achieving, super respectful, etc. The principal told me that 1/3 of my class will probably be like them. I probably have 1-2 kids (if any) like this in my classes this year since these kids end up in honors/pre-AP. He said that about 1/3 of the kids in my class might come from low income families and have difficult home lives and might need some extra support. Obviously, you can’t categorize kids like this but I anticipate slightly better behavior.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  11. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    The comment about staying late/coming in early would bother me, BUT that is an extremely short contract day. Only 6.5 hours? Is that typical for your area? Around here, everyone has 8 hour contract days. I can kind of understand expecting people to put in a bit more time if the day is that short yet you are paying them a full time salary.

    Have you met the teachers who would be on your team? If it's something that concerns you I might ask for their contact info and ask them a little bit more about that piece if they're willing to talk to you. I can't say I see a problem with not liking yelling at kids, but I would wonder about the "blaming kids" part. That raises red flags for me about how much support you'd get with discipline- some people that have that philosophy are the type that will tell you a kid threw a desk at you because your math lesson wasn't engaging enough. Or he could just mean he wants you to be accountable and focus on the aspects that are in your control. I think talking to some other teachers at the school could give you some insight. If you're not comfortable doing that, you could ask the P to tell you more about school wide behavior policies and how he supports teachers with severe behaviors. Those answers could be telling as well.
     
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  12. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    My contract at my current school is 7:30-2:40 but most teachers (including me) stay for extra help until 3 about 2-3 days a week. I agree that the contract is really short. It seems like we don’t have homeroom but we pick the kids up at 8:10. I wonder if he meant those are school hours and the contract is different?

    I felt like his list of “pet peeves” was a little bit strange as well. I personally agreed with his philosophy in general.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  13. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    The other teachers on my team were on my interview committee and saw my demo. I didn’t get a chance to talk with them outside of this.
     
  14. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    I still think the pros are way more than the cons. Waterfall has some good points to consider. Talking to the team would be a good thing.
    I'm surprised that if you are the only 6th grade math person you only have 60% math. What does the Social Studies teacher do all day? I would think they would also have 60% as you would have the same kids.
    Again, talking to the team would be a great help. Since they were on your interview/demo, maybe you could get a hold of them. The principal did say you were their first choice.
     
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  15. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    Have you heard anything else today?
     
  16. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    He told me he’s going out of town with his family yesterday so I should probably hear from him Monday.

    I surprisingly haven’t been too stressed about this but I wish that I had the chance to accept a job before letting my principal know. :(
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
  17. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    I was wondering the same thing and I assume that they either do some kind of elective or teach another grade level.
     
  18. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    I guess just let it go until Monday and then deal with decisions that need to be made.

    What if he calls and offers you the job? What would you do?
     
  19. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    I would take it!

    He just wouldn’t until speaking with a direct supervisor from my current job.
     
  20. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    I haven’t heard anything yet :(
     
  21. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    It’s still early in the day, and he was out of town for the weekend. Try to relax and give him some time before worrying.
     
  22. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    So he just called back and unfortunately one of my references is out of town. He is contacting my other reference and hopefully my principal today. I am hoping for the best!

    I told my principal that I was made aware of the job and it is closer to home for me.
     
  23. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    The principal called back and said my 2nd reference highly recommended me. My 3rd reference is my principal so I’m hoping he gets back to me quickly and it works out!!
     
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  24. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    Everything sounds promising for sure. Is your current principal in the office this week since it is July 4? Our school is closed for this week but maybe he is using his cell phone. Best of luck!
     
  25. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    The principal at the new school said to hold tight because people are on vacation but they’re not interviewing anyone else, etc. I emailed him and I didn’t get an out of office message. My mentor said that if he’s on vacation, he usually has an out of office message if he’s on vacation.
     
  26. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    My principal still hasn't gotten back to me...I am getting a little bit anxious.
     
  27. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    Received an offer!! The principal is submitting my paperwork for hire. Unfortunately, since it is a holiday week, I know that HR might be out of office this week. I'm really excited about this job. My current principal emailed me and said that he understands that life circumstances my require a change, etc. and said he gave a very positive reference. My current principal also asked me to let him know if I choose to accept so that he can post the position. I texted my mentor who told me that I should tell my principal that I haven't heard anything and only let him know when I sign a contract.
     
  28. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    Congratulations!
     
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  29. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    A girl that I knew from a summer internship works at this district. She says that she is actually transferring to this school next year. She says she heard great things about admin and that it’s the school that everyone wants to get hired to. She also said she heard the behavior is really good.

    Unfortunately, she also said HR is really slow.
     
  30. LouiseB

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    Congratulations! It probably will seem like a long time before you sign a contract with HR. But there is time yet before school starts. Keep us posted as to how things are going.
     
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  31. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    Do you think that I should wait until a contract is signed to resign from my current position?
     
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  32. geoteacher

    geoteacher Habitué

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    Yes. Make sure everything is in order before you give up what you have. Congratulations!
     
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  33. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    Thank you.

    I am hoping that I can sign a contract by next week and give my principal notice.
     
  34. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    I think it depends on how things work in your region. Where I live, waiting to sign a contract before resigning isn’t common or necessary. Signing the contract is just a formality. And sometimes your current admin will find out anyway due to word of mouth - many admins in different districts/schools know each other. If it works differently where you live, then you may want to wait.
     
  35. mathteachertobe

    mathteachertobe Cohort

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    You might let your former principal know that if you receive an offer, you plan to accept it, but you can't officially resign until you sign a contract. He will then be able to start looking if he wants, even though he won't have an official HR opening yet.
     
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  36. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    Yes, definitely.
     
  37. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    This could be okay only if you have a union. If you do have a union and that can't fire you for saying you are looking to move elsewhere, it's not a bad idea.
     
  38. mathteachertobe

    mathteachertobe Cohort

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    Good point, Otterpop, I am in a union state. I let my P know I was looking to transfer this year. I have tenure. Once I got an offer, I let her know I would be leaving, but since I still had other interviews, I didn't want to accept the offer through HR yet. I was hoping my admin would pull candidate files and start interviewing, but she dropped the ball, as she has so often this year (which was part of why I was looking), and now two months later my old position is still unfilled.
     
  39. whizkid

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    Ha, I wish that was MY district's biggest problem!
     
  40. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Your district = zoo. And its inhabitants (minus yourself) = zoo animals.
     
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