Job Dilemma

I did turn down the job as it is really early in the hiring season. I was concerned by the fact that the principal was leaving and I wasn't told this info in my job interview. The school generally seems unstable and I'm not willing to leave a job that is stable where my admin does seem to like me and generally leaves us alone to go to a turnaround. I want my next job to be a school that I can see myself staying at long term and I didn't see that for this job.
 
Job Update:

On Thursday, I went to a different demo lesson for a different school. The job is again for 6th grade math. The demo went pretty well & they asked for references. I was supposed to hear back yesterday, but I didn't so I assumed that I didn't get it. But I just got a call tonight saying that they didn't have time to check my references and they will be checking them on Monday and giving me a call on Monday. She also told me to call her if I receive any other offers. I will be emailing/texting my references tomorrow that they should expect a call on monday! I am grateful to my mentor from this year because I used one of her lesson ideas for my demo.

My demo lesson was pretty good. I did a lesson with manipulatives that my mentor showed me this year. It was nice because I already taught it to my kids this year. It was an interesting situation because they combined parts of two classes since some of the kids were on a field trip. So it was with an inclusion class, but I had about 26-27 kids. The behavior was alright and I needed to give a few redirections/reminders to have one voice at a time, etc. but all the kids listened the first time and were really good. I think it was actually good that there were a few side conversations that I handled because she said that these kids need high expectations, etc.

I don't want to get my hopes up but I REALLY want this job:

Pros:
-Shorter commute...it is in the same city that I live in. (I live in a big city though so it's in a different part and I likely wouldn't run into kids.) It's a 15 minute drive but I could also take a bus that would take 30 mins.
-Much higher salary (same as the previous school...but without the extended day or extra meetings). I would make about 68K here and 56K at my current school.
-Class size cap of 28 kids!!
-Middle School Teams: We will meet with the math team and middle school teams on alternate days
-Same grade level, so I know the standards pretty well and I have some lessons I can use.

Cons:
-It is a Level 3 school
-Behavior might be difficult to manage, but I think I will be better with behavior management in my 2nd year of teaching. Behavior is also not great at my current school. I felt that the kids were similar when observing them in the hallway, etc.
-I would teach 4 60 minute classes instead of 3 72 minute classes.
-Some policies like hoodies, uniforms, don't seem to be enforced. I enforce it at my school since admin wants us to. But I would let it go if it wasn't a big deal to the school. (This is a pro/con...I like uniforms but I HATE policing them.)
-I would have to teach inclusion + it is my first time teaching inclusion.
-The school is pretty run down. My current school is beautiful and well maintained. We have a SMART Board and a document camera. This one just has a projector, no document camera, etc.

Pro/Con: There is no tracking. Part of me loves this because we would have teams, but there might be a ton of different levels in one class.

I believe they use the open up curriculum for math. I like the curriculum but I also think it can be pretty confusing for the kids.
 
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Did you meet the others on the team? What do you know about this school? Turnover? I would guess that you checked into this before applying. Your list as more pros than cons.
 
LouiseB said:
Did you meet the others on the team? What do you know about this school? Turnover? I would guess that you checked into this before applying. Your list as more pros than cons.
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I met the science teacher who seemed great and the 7-8 grade math teacher.

There doesn't seem to be a ton of turnover. There are some schools (like the previous school that I mentioned on this thread) with a ton of job postings in almost every subject and grade. This school only has two jobs posted--this job and an early childhood sped job.
 
That is a positive as it shows people stay around. Sounds like this might be the change you are looking for. Will you have difficulty getting out of your contract? Around here, we have to return our contracts by April 30 and you might get out of it or you might not.
 
LouiseB said:
That is a positive as it shows people stay around. Sounds like this might be the change you are looking for. Will you have difficulty getting out of your contract? Around here, we have to return our contracts by April 30 and you might get out of it or you might not.
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Nope, I did not sign anything for next year. My mentor told me people even leave in the summer at my school. If I get the job, I will let my school know as soon as I sign the contract for my new school.

If offered, I am going to talk to my union rep. I don't want to resign until I sign my contract.
 
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So I just got offered the job!! BUT I'm a little bit concerned.

Apparently, it would start as a long-term sub job until November 1st and I would only get a contract on November 1st. Thoughts? I would hate to leave a permanent position for something not guaranteed...
 
Ms.Holyoke said:
So I just got offered the job!! BUT I'm a little bit concerned.

Apparently, it would start as a long-term sub job until November 1st and I would only get a contract on November 1st. Thoughts? I would hate to leave a permanent position for something not guaranteed...
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You’re going to leave a permanent job for a non-guaranteed temporary one, potentially. What if they decide to discontinue the position?
 
Can you sign a contract for the LTS position and the permanent position now to guarantee the permanent job?
 
What was the explanation given for that? I would not even consider it unless you can sign the FT contract right now, and there is a very good explanation for why things need to be done that way. It seems to me that either they're waiting for October count (IDK if it's "October count" everywhere, but whenever they officially count students for funding) to justify the position, which means you run the risk of them not having enough students/the job not really becoming FT, or they're just manipulating you so that they can pay you a much lower salary for the first 3 months. Would you still have benefits? I don't think our long term subs get benefits.

Also, in my district anyone that isn't hired before the start of the year is automatically non-renewed at the end of the year. If they like you, they hire you back, but it's still a little stressful as they still post the position for 2 weeks. Also, since it wasn't a full year, it doesn't count for an experience increment, meaning you'd lose out on a salary step, and take one year longer to earn non-probationary status. Here, even though you were there in the same position, the long term thing wouldn't count. I would make sure you know all of the rules the district has surrounding this.

I once interviewed for a job where they told me a very similar scenario. The job would start as a long term sub but was "pretty much guaranteed" to turn into full time, and they even said I would get back pay when that happened. I still didn't even consider it- IMO there are way too many risks with something going wrong, and I needed the FT salary right away, not as back pay later.

To me this is a huge red flag. If you are just dying to get into this particular school I could see maybe justifying IF they let you sign the permanent contract right away and you ascertain there are no loopholes. Otherwise, I'd run from this position. It's not like you're unemployed and desperate to break into the field. From what you've posted, your current job honestly doesn't sound that bad and I would bet you'll discover that the grass isn't always greener.
 
waterfall said:
What was the explanation given for that? I would not even consider it unless you can sign the FT contract right now, and there is a very good explanation for why things need to be done that way. It seems to me that either they're waiting for October count (IDK if it's "October count" everywhere, but whenever they officially count students for funding) to justify the position, which means you run the risk of them not having enough students/the job not really becoming FT, or they're just manipulating you so that they can pay you a much lower salary for the first 3 months. Would you still have benefits? I don't think our long term subs get benefits.

Also, in my district anyone that isn't hired before the start of the year is automatically non-renewed at the end of the year. If they like you, they hire you back, but it's still a little stressful as they still post the position for 2 weeks. Also, since it wasn't a full year, it doesn't count for an experience increment, meaning you'd lose out on a salary step, and take one year longer to earn non-probationary status. Here, even though you were there in the same position, the long term thing wouldn't count. I would make sure you know all of the rules the district has surrounding this.

I once interviewed for a job where they told me a very similar scenario. The job would start as a long term sub but was "pretty much guaranteed" to turn into full time, and they even said I would get back pay when that happened. I still didn't even consider it- IMO there are way too many risks with something going wrong, and I needed the FT salary right away, not as back pay later.

To me this is a huge red flag. If you are just dying to get into this particular school I could see maybe justifying IF they let you sign the permanent contract right away and you ascertain there are no loopholes. Otherwise, I'd run from this position. It's not like you're unemployed and desperate to break into the field. From what you've posted, your current job honestly doesn't sound that bad and I would bet you'll discover that the grass isn't always greener.
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Amen!
 
They didn't mention the long term sub until they offered the job? I wouldn't take it since it is not a full time position right away. I think I would tell them that and see what their response is to that.

You have a tough decision to make!
 
LouiseB said:
They didn't mention the long term sub until they offered the job? I wouldn't take it since it is not a full time position right away. I think I would tell them that and see what their response is to that.

You have a tough decision to make!
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I called them today and they said it can’t be a full time job to start.
 
Here is what I gathered. I would love your thoughts/advice:
-The principal just texted me and said that they can post the job as opening on 11/01 so I would have proof of hire for November 1st and I can sign a November 1st contract. I would start the year paid as a long term sub (I think $170 a day for 25 days and then $290 after 25 days.) The reason that it is a long term sub job is because of another teacher who is retiring on November 1st. She teaches in a SPED classroom, but the person that they hired for her job is an employee of the district and they wouldn't be allowed to start as a long term sub. My friend who works at the school said that it is just a budget thing and that it shouldn't influence my decision, except for the finances. The principal said that two teachers started the same way this year. I also wouldn't be able to take a day off paid for the first 2 months. Overall, I would make more $$ as you get paid a lot in this district. It would count as a year of service and a step on the salary scale. I am still not sure how comfortable I feel with this.

-I would have two preps, not just one--3 6th grade classes and 1 7th grade inclusion class. This would definitely be more work + it might feel like doing my first year all over again + would be a lot of work. Classes are only 60 minutes.

-People generally stay at this school and they don't have a lot of openings.

-Planning can be taken up by meetings but there is no obligation to stay after school with students (as there is at my school.)

- The 6th grade team is great. This is what I would love + what I am missing from my school. They do a lot of work together on interventions, use buddy rooms, etc. The kids also see them as a team and travel as a cohort which is again really nice!

-Behavior can be challenging. They use strategies as a team + as a school to help with behavior like Live School, etc. Teachers generally don't give detentions, etc.


-My commute would be better (15 minutes to get there vs. 30 minutes and 15 minutes to get home vs 45 minutes to get home.) I could also take a bus if I wanted in 30 minutes.
 
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Ms.Holyoke said:
Here is what I gathered. I would love your thoughts/advice:
-The principal just texted me and said that they can post the job as opening on 11/01 so I would have proof of hire for November 1st. I would start the year paid as a long term sub (I think $170 a day for 25 days and then $290 after 25 days.) The reason that it is a long term sub job is because of another teacher who is retiring on November 1st. She teaches in a SPED classroom, but the person that they hired for her job is an employee of the district and they wouldn't be allowed to start as a long term sub. My friend who works at the school said that it is just a budget thing and that it shouldn't influence my decision, except for the finances. The principal said that two teachers started the same way this year. I also wouldn't be able to take a day off paid for the first 2 months. Overall, I would make more $$ as you get paid a lot in this district. It would count as a year of service and a step on the salary scale.
-I would have two preps, not just one--3 6th grade classes and 1 7th grade inclusion class. This would definitely be more work + it might feel like doing my first year all over again + would be a lot of work. Classes are only 60 minutes.
-People generally stay at this school and they don't have a lot of openings.
-Planning can be taken up by meetings but there is no obligation to stay after school with students (as there is at my school.)
- The 6th grade team is great. This is what I would love + what I am missing from my school. They do a lot of work together on interventions, use buddy rooms, etc. The kids also see them as a team and travel as a cohort which is again really nice!
-Behavior can be challenging. They use strategies as a team + as a school to help with behavior like Live School, etc. Teachers generally don't give detentions, etc.
-My commute would be better (15 minutes to get there vs. 30 minutes and 15 minutes to get home vs 45 minutes to get home.) I could also take a bus if I wanted in 30 minutes.
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This makes it sound less bad, but it still seems risky. I’m not sure what I would do in your situation. I would have to go with my gut. Since it’s not my situation, I don’t have a gut feeling one way or the other, but you probably do. Try to figure out what it is, and go with it.
 
bella84 said:
This makes it sound less bad, but it still seems risky. I’m not sure what I would do in your situation. I would have to go with my gut. Since it’s not my situation, I don’t have a gut feeling one way or the other, but you probably do. Try to figure out what it is, and go with it.
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I agree.
 
I know how you feel to some extent as my first choice district is also very hard to get into and I would probably have to do something similar as they usually hire from their sub list. I cant afford sub pay or going without benefits for me and my son for a couple of months so its a non-starter, but then that means that this district is out of reach and I have no chance to ever get in. If I were younger and childless I just might go for it.

There is still some risk, but there is also a pay off.

I guess the other thing it comes down to is do the other aspects of the job make it worth it to take the risk? A pro/con list can be even in numbers but not in weight is that how this comes off for you? Something is a minor benefit to me could be a big deal to you so it doesn't help for me to weigh in other other pieces to the offer that you described.
 
As others have said, go with your gut feeling. If this is a place you really want to be at, then go for it. Your friend in the district knows how these things go down and would know how it all works in that district. Good luck!
 
I think I am going to turn it down! I think it seems like too much work. They have meetings during 3 planning blocks which is a ton of work + no time to actually grade, make copies. It seems like they also expect you to join after school committees (from 3:45-5 once every two weeks), which my current school doesn’t expect.
 
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Ms.Holyoke said:
I think I am going to turn it down! I think it seems like too much work. They have meetings during 3 planning blocks which is a ton of work + no time to actually grade, make copies. It seems like they also expect you to join after school committees (from 3:45-5 once every two weeks), which my current school doesn’t expect.
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That's all pretty typical in my experience. If you otherwise want the job, I wouldn't let those things stand in the way. Sure, meetings and committees are time-consuming, but they are often avenues for professional growth that will only help your long-term career. For me, the concern would be more with the long-term sub part. But, again, you've gotta go with your own gut feeling.
 
bella84 said:
That's all pretty typical in my experience. If you otherwise want the job, I wouldn't let those things stand in the way. Sure, meetings and committees are time-consuming, but they are often avenues for professional growth that will only help your long-term career. For me, the concern would be more with the long-term sub part. But, again, you've gotta go with your own gut feeling.
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True...

I spoke with a union rep who asked me to get it in writing.
 
Turn it down if it’s the LTS thing that is making you feel uncomfortable. But don’t turn it down because of extra planning and meetings and extra preps. These things give you more experience, help you to learn and grow professionally so these are positive things. And if you’re making more money, I think you are “compensated” for your time. Over time, I think it would pay off career advancement wise and financially in a highly sought after district.
 
rpan said:
Turn it down if it’s the LTS thing that is making you feel uncomfortable. But don’t turn it down because of extra planning and meetings and extra preps. These things give you more experience, help you to learn and grow professionally so these are positive things. And if you’re making more money, I think you are “compensated” for your time. Over time, I think it would pay off career advancement wise and financially in a highly sought after district.
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I think my issue with the meetings is that it is a really big change from what I have this year. We have 72 minutes of planning time which is ours and 45 minutes of math team meetings. We might have meetings during our planning, but they aren't regularly scheduled. I assumed that teachers are guaranteed some planning time to make copies, etc. At this school, you would have math team meetings during your planning time, grade level team meetings during your planning time, etc. I'm not sure if that is normal?

There are also after school committees that you are expected to attend, bi-weekly from 3:45-5pm. That again seems like a lot.
 
Ms.Holyoke said:
I think my issue with the meetings is that it is a really big change from what I have this year. We have 72 minutes of planning time which is ours and 45 minutes of math team meetings. We might have meetings during our planning, but they aren't regularly scheduled. I assumed that teachers are guaranteed some planning time to make copies, etc. At this school, you would have math team meetings during your planning time, grade level team meetings during your planning time, etc. I'm not sure if that is normal?

There are also after school committees that you are expected to attend, bi-weekly from 3:45-5pm. That again seems like a lot.
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This is all totally normal.
 
rpan said:
Can you sign a contract for the LTS position and the permanent position now to guarantee the permanent job?
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So, she said I could sign a contract for the November 1st job over the summer but if the person chose not to retire (and she can until November 1st), I wouldn’t have a contract.
 
Ms.Holyoke said:
^^
I think I will turn it down because it starts as a long term sub w/o guarantees. I might keep looking for a more permanent position.
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All things considered, this seems like the best choice to me.

It's still early in the summer, something else may come along. I firmly believe in listening to your gut feelings... If it doesn't feel completely right, it probably isn't.
 
Ms.Holyoke said:
What state do you teach in? I'm not sure if it is for my state (MA).
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I teach in Missouri. I don’t think the state makes a difference. As you’re finding, every district operates differently, regardless of the state it is in. All I can tell you is meetings during plan time and after-school commitments only make sense. Although not always, they are often necessary and worthwhile. They lead to professional growth and student growth. There is a reason this district you are considering is highly sought after and people don’t leave, despite the fact that they are expected to to attend meetings and join committees. They must believe in what they are doing, and they must feel that they are getting something out of it. Otherwise, they wouldn’t stay. Only you can know what is right for you with this opportunity or any other. But I caution you to avoid turning down a job simply because it seems like more work or more of a time commitment than you have currently, especially so early in your career. Putting in the time now will propel you forward in the future.
 
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