Job decisions/timing

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by DistantSun, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. DistantSun

    DistantSun Rookie

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    Apr 23, 2011

    Hi all, I'm about to graduate with an MA from Ed School and am trying to find a job. Here in New York City (and lots of places, it would seem), hiring, if there is to be any, hasn't started yet.

    At the career fairs, I handed out my resume to everyone and immediately got contacted by a school a few states away. I've been asked to do a second interview and demo lesson and so far it's the only second interview I've gotten. But really, my first choice is to stay here. My question is, how do people time these things? I am tempted to say no to this, simply because I can't decide in April or early May to relocate when no one here is even hiring yet! It would be a lot of money and effort to get there if there's no chance I would take it. On the other hand, what if NYC ends up laying off 4,000 teachers as they talk about? I'll be kicking myself.

    Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated, thanks!
     
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  3. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    If you would consider relocating if New York isn't hiring, I would take the second interview. One, you need to put in money and time to get a job. Second, it is great practice if something comes up in NY. Third, you cannot know what the future will hold.
     
  4. DistantSun

    DistantSun Rookie

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    Thanks for this, mopar. I should clarify: I would consider relocating if after exhausting all opportunities in NY there was nothing for me. To make a decision before districts here have even gotten their budgets is what I worry about.
     
  5. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    Apr 23, 2011

    It really depends then if you could live next year without a teaching job. If so, then exhaust efforts in NY and look out of state next year.

    If not, take the second interview. If you have a job offer, it might make it less stressful looking in NY.
     
  6. DistantSun

    DistantSun Rookie

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    That's an interesting point, thanks. But are you saying that I should accept the job if offered and then keep looking in NY? Is that ethical?

    I need the job for 2011-12; my savings are exhausted and I'll have loans to repay.
     
  7. HOPE-fulTeacher

    HOPE-fulTeacher Comrade

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    Apr 23, 2011

    I agree- I would take the 2nd interview. I am struggling with timing issues myself; however, I think it's a big risk to turn down this opportunity in hopes that something will open up in New York later, especially if there might be thousands of layoffs like you mentioned.

    Going down for an interview would give you a great chance to check out the area and really get a feel for things. If you are offered the position, then you will have to decide if you like the school & area enough to move. If I liked the school & town, then I would definitely take it! If I didn't, then I probably wouldn't accept it if I were you (since you say that you would only want to relocate after exhausting all options). Then, at least you can keep looking in New York without kicking yourself and wondering "what if"!

    I would at least give yourself the chance to get a job offer, and let them tell you no instead of closing that door yourself.
     
  8. LUCHopefulTeach

    LUCHopefulTeach Habitué

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    Apr 23, 2011

    My fiance and myself are considering relocating. We asked ourselves one question before we decided to apply out of state and it's a question that you may want to answer yourself.

    If these are your only two options- Would you rather teach in (state you would relocate to) or not teach in (state you live in)?

    Yes, you may get a job in the state you live in as it's still early. However, in this job market you may not. It's wise to consider all options if you really want to teach!
     
  9. HOPE-fulTeacher

    HOPE-fulTeacher Comrade

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    Good question LUC! That definitely puts things in perspective...
     
  10. DistantSun

    DistantSun Rookie

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    It is near the area where I went to college, so I know it pretty well. But I am a late in life career changer which means I have roots, friends, a mortgage, and a life here. My family are all here, including aging parents. I would move if it were the only chance to work in education that I could get, but if there were any job at all here, even one I would enjoy less or that would pay less, I would choose it over that job. That's why I find this decision so difficult.

    I find myself thinking, "if they offered me the job now, I wouldn't take it. So why am I going?" But I wanted to hear other viewpoints and you have given me those so thank you. I think I will probably take the interview and demo and maybe I'll have to make that decision and maybe not! :)
     
  11. PCdiva

    PCdiva Connoisseur

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    Apr 24, 2011

    I would go for the interview....its not like they are going to hire you on the spot, right?

    The school that you are now in Student Teaching, is there hope to get at least a perm. sub job there? I don't know if the city does that, some of the LI districts do.

    You should weigh your options since you are established/have a mortgage...I personally couldn't up and leave. PLUS, the salary is going to be a lot less everywhere else (so is cost of living, but you would still have to pay your mortgage here right? I think it is unlikely you could sell quick enough to move in this market)

    Do the math- could you live off of sub pay?

    What is the salary in the state/district you are moving too? Maybe you can check that out. Also, go on Craigslist or similiar and find the going rate for a couple of apartments. Is it going to be worth it financially?

    Do you have children...you wrote family so I wasn't sure, that would surely play into it.

    What certifications are you going to have when you graduate? (That will make a big difference too...)

    Also, schools that don't rely on public funding, ie. catholic schools, etc. have begun their hiring...have you applied to any?

    I am uncertain if I will have a job for next year, so have been checking NY Times, OLAS, School Leadership, etc. and the postings are there...5 library positions for next year, and it's early. (I know that's most likely not your cert. area...but depending on what yours is, there may be jobs)

    Good Luck and Welcome!
     
  12. DistantSun

    DistantSun Rookie

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    Apr 24, 2011

    Thanks so much, PCdiva! I have been reading here for ages and it feels good to finally post. :)

    No hope for the school I am in now, unfortunately. It is a private school and although they were hiring in my content area, they only looked at people with many years of teaching experience. Everyone likes me and told me they hope I come back after I have a few years under my belt, which is nice but not helpful in the short term!

    My area is really specialized (educational technology - not vocational technology which is standard) and doesn't exist in many states, so it's hard. Very few parochial schools have someone in the position or they use a teacher who also knows a little bit about tech to do double duty, rather than spending the money on someone who has a Master's in it.

    A recruiter at a job fair gave me great hope by telling me that NYC public schools would need me, that there were too few certified in my area, and to hang on till later this summer. So far, only the private schools have been hiring, and I have applied everywhere with no results (people tell me my resume looks great but there are many out there with a lot more experience).

    Here's where I have been looking: OLAS, NJHire, NY Times, Craigslist, NAIS, DOE, and just any school I hear of, I look at their site to see what's available. So far the pickings have been slim.

    I have no children, no. I meant a large, close, extended family, all of whom are here. Many siblings, nieces and nephews, etc. Re: the mortgage, my plan is this - if I get a job elsewhere, I would sublet for a year and sell after that if I liked where I was. If not, I could return home. (In Manhattan, it's usually pretty easy to find a renter, although I admit it would be a headache to deal with).

    I keep coming back to your statement that in my situation you "personally couldn't up and leave." I don't think I could, either, and that's the trouble. I want to exhaust every option before that happens and I really doubt this school would wait three months for my answer if they chose to hire me! That doesn't mean I wouldn't interview, of course, but it gives me pause.

    Thanks again for the help.
     
  13. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    Apr 24, 2011

    I'm not sure if accepting and backing out is ethical, but I do know that it happens. Especially with you being out of state, you probably won't sign your contract until closer to the end of summer. Just a thought.
     
  14. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    Apr 24, 2011

    I know that NY might not have started hiring for public schools yet, but many places around the country are in full swing for hiring. If you wait, you may lose the opportunity to find a teaching job out of state.
     
  15. MsMar

    MsMar Fanatic

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    Apr 24, 2011

    The challenge right now with being certified in a specialized elective is that with budget cuts, these tend to be the first to go. I'm a FCS teacher (Family and Consumer Science, formerly known as Home Ec) and IF my school cuts down our dept I will most likely lose my position as I am fairly low on the seniority list (4th from the bottom of 15 teachers). My chances for a FCS job will be rather slim at another school as each week when I read of local districts announcing their cuts, at least 75% of them mention either eliminating or reducing their FCS program. So not only are there less FCS jobs available, there are newly laid off teachers seeking the few jobs that will be out there. Now, it won't be as tough as elementary which is super saturated around here, but it won't be what it was like 3 years ago when I had 7 interviews in one summer even though I had no FCS experience at all. Not even student teaching as I did that for my el ed cert.

    Anyway, my point, and I do have one (!!) is that given your cert, and given budgets being what they are, I wouldn't hold off too long in seeking outside the NY area, especially if NYC does go through with the reduction they have been talking about. If you definitely want to teach and are willing to move, I would pursue that option sooner rather than later. Although on the other hand, as you have been told, very few people have your certification so if a school does need a tech ed teacher, you'd be in a small pool of people seeking that position. The question just becomes, how many schools will have a need for this position or will it be eliminated/reduced in many schools due to budget issues?
     
  16. l8ybugmom

    l8ybugmom Groupie

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    Ok...here is what I don't understand...why would you give your resume out to an out of state school if you had not already answered these questions? I am not trying to be harsh but really this is something you should have thought of before. I am applying to my current state as well as another state that is my home state and I've already weighed my options...I too have a mortgage and children (one is about to be a sr in hs)but I'm also divorcing (thank goodness will be final in May) and have no support system here. I am more than prepared to up and move, although it is scary as I'll get out, even though I'd be moving "home."

    Best case scenario, they could offer you the job on the spot or shortly there after and then what? You can ask for a few days to think about it but honestly you should know what you are willing and capable of doing now. Morally and ethically, I would not sign a contract and then keep interviewing. Some here even believe if you accept the position without signing a contract you shouldn't keep interviewing.

    Good luck! And congrats on graduating soon! :)
     
  17. DistantSun

    DistantSun Rookie

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    Apr 24, 2011

    Thank you all for the good advice and good wishes! Especially on a holiday weekend.

    To answer a few points:

    I gave my resume out to any place that I would be willing to live. That meant some East Coast cities and further out in the tri-state area but not, say, California. Because I *am* willing to relocate if there is nothing here. What I hadn't counted on was getting a second interview/demo somewhat far away months before any place here was even thinking about hiring. I thought the two would be closer together so I could make a comparative choice or that my options here would be exhausted before deciding to pick up and go. I hadn't figured on making a "bird in the hand" type decision, you know?

    I don't think I would feel good about accepting a position somewhere and then when their options are limited for finding someone else to back out of it. It is probably old fashioned, because anyone hiring would probably have no qualms about letting you go if they found someone better, but I don't think I could do that.

    I think it comes down to how much risk I am willing to take and I wish there was someone who could give me a better idea of what sort of hiring will take place here and when it might happen. But I recognize that that's wishful thinking and I'll have to make my decision (if indeed there even is one to make!) without it. My gut feeling now is that if this school made me an offer immediately (and their hiring process has been going on since mid-March so I imagine I am probably among the last to be considered) that I would say no. My first choice is to stay here and few here have even begun to hire. Then I'm investing hundreds of dollars I barely have in a practice interview… but that might indeed be worth it. As MsMar said, the state and city are required to hire me first if something opens, but what if nothing does? I wish I had a crystal ball. :)

    PS, seven interviews in one summer sounds like heaven! If only it were still like that.
     
  18. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    I am glad that you are someone who wouldn't take a contract and back out of it. That speaks highly to the type of person you are. I know that it happens, it even happened with a teacher we interviewed last year (thus we hired someone in Aug and he is fabulous!).

    We all wish we had a crystal ball. If you really want to stay in NY and aren't willing yet to give up hope, then turn it down. It is a lot of money and it may not even end up being a job offer. There is nothing wrong with saying that now is not the time and waiting. It just might mean not having a job in the end...
     
  19. DistantSun

    DistantSun Rookie

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    Apr 24, 2011

    Thanks for that and for the advice.

    I know... so hard. I wish we were living in better times. BTW, adorable baby!
     
  20. MsMar

    MsMar Fanatic

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    Yup, it was very nice! Interestingly enough the job I had wanted most but was not offered is now laying off two FCS teachers so if I had gotten that job I know for sure I'd be RIFed this year. I'm hoping if I do get RIFed this year the fact that I have three years experience will help. I mean if I got 7 interviews with 0 FCS experience I'd hope I could get at least a couple this summer. That is, if anyone is hiring at all for it. So far only one district has a position posted on PA Reap but it's too long of a drive for me. But I know I didn't have my first interview until mid June, so it's still early.

    If I do lose my FCS position I might just be able to bump into elementary at my current district since I'm dual certified. I'm hoping to know a lot more after the budget meeting this week.
     
  21. LUCHopefulTeach

    LUCHopefulTeach Habitué

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    Apr 24, 2011

    From March 2011-May 2011, I will have had 5 interviews. It's possible.
     
  22. DistantSun

    DistantSun Rookie

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    Thanks for the encouragement! I think I am in a bit of a "graduation is coming, time to panic" mode, so hearing this does help.

    And good luck to you, MsMar. It sounds like things worked out for you before and hopefully they will this time, too.
     
  23. PCdiva

    PCdiva Connoisseur

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    Educational Technology is great...many of my classes that I needed to take for my masters in LIbrary overlapped with that and I considedered taking the CST for it....but to give the state yet another $88- is ugh!

    I don't see a lot of positions posted for that content area...but there are not as many candidates either...same thing with library-I was told the candidate to position ratio was 40:1 rather than the 600:1 that was elementary education.

    It is such a stressful decision to decide weather to spend the money to go on that interview, I get it...2 years ago there was a position posted, i applied and they called for me to interview(the same Friday I had a flight scheduled to go to Disney- they wouldn't interview any other days as the panel was scheduled, I knew that I had to change my flight, which meant missing the 5k I was scheduled to do there...it cost me like $300 to get a later flight and cut 12 hours out of my weekend trip to the Disney marathon....I didn't get the job...but I knew if I missed the I would still be regretting it to this day)

    Last summer I interviewed in 11 Districts...all public schools and all on Long Island...a few 2nd and 3rd rounds and a couple of demo lessons....I got hired the day before school started....there is hope!
     
  24. newbie23

    newbie23 Comrade

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    Apr 24, 2011

    I totally agree with what Mopar said! You need to ask yourself if you can see yourself not teaching next school year. If the answer is yes, then I would continue to look in NY. If the answer to that question is no, then it sounds like you need to jump on any opportunity that presents itself.

    Job searching is a gamble. So many of the posters here have been offered interviews or even their dream job the day after they accept a position. You never know what will happen. What I can assure you is that if you waiver, a school district will find someone else who is confident in their decisions.

    Good luck!
     
  25. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    newbie23---so true! As many candidates are applying, someone else will be happy to accept the job.
     
  26. DistantSun

    DistantSun Rookie

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    Thanks for understanding, PC. That is exactly it, yes. And it's encouraging to know there is still the possibility of getting a job even late in the game. Your story is really amazing and if it's a job you really wanted, I totally get why you went out of your way. It sounds like you would have regretted it if you hadn't.

    I feel like jumping on any opportunity that presents itself this early may not be right. Although getting a job in my field is truly important, so is being near my family and community. Obviously, if it were the only opportunity I would take it! The trouble is, I can't know that. Life is a balance with lots of competing priorities. So I have to do some deep thinking and I appreciate all of you sharing your perspectives! I will probably do the interview and then hope if they do offer it to me, they will give me some time to consider while I continue to job hunt nearby.
     
  27. PCdiva

    PCdiva Connoisseur

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    Sounds like a good plan, be sure to keep us posted!

    So what is your ideal job? Being a staff developer, an elementary computer teacher, ms computers, hs computers? Or something else?
     
  28. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Apr 25, 2011

    OK, you're talking NYC. Depending on where you live, there are a couple of other options:

    In addition to the NYC Public school district, hit every single private, religious and charter school in the 5 boros.

    Then hit the 124 districts in LI, along with our private, religious and charters.

    Then hit Westchester and possibly Yonkers.

    Then hit the parts of NJ close enough for a reasonable commute.

    In each case, contact individual principals in addition to applying at the district level.
     
  29. amedinaoh

    amedinaoh Companion

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    Apr 26, 2011

    Well, I moved to NC, away from ALL family figuring I would work for a few years doing a job I wanted and went to school for and then suck up the homesickness with visits during breaks. Well...it has now been five years and the hiring has not gotten any better in Ohio and doesn't look like it for years to come, if ever. My experience really hasn't helped me like I thought it would. Not sure what to tell you but don't count on moving out of state for a few years and coming back when you have experience. It may work out but may not. I am now deciding whether I want to go back regardless. Hard decisions for you for sure.
     
  30. DistantSun

    DistantSun Rookie

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    I tried to post yesterday and it didn't go through; hopefully this will.

    PC, thanks! That's hard to say. Some Tech Specialist positions consist of just working with teachers and some are simply technology teachers. My ideal would fall somewhere in between, so that I can teach some classes but also work with teachers to help them integrate technology into the classroom. I like LS and MS but HS would be OK, too.

    Alice, at first I was going to answer, "but I have applied to all their district and one-stop job board sites!" And I have: DOE for NYC, OLAS for LI and Westchester/Rockland/Putnam, NJHire for NJ, NAIS for private and parochial schools, etc. And I am on those sites looking at new listings every single day. But then I realized that I have actually missed out on doing more individual things, like writing to principals in whose schools I'd especially like to work. So that's something I have to add to my list of things to do. Thanks for the tip.

    I also went back over the notes I took at the last career fair I attended and for several schools I had jotted down, "call in May." So I feel a bit more hopeful that hiring will begin soon. I submitted five more applications yesterday.

    Amedinaoh, I'm so sorry. I think it is really bad all over. It's a bad time. Thanks for the advice and good luck on finding something in Ohio… it is hard to be away from loved ones.
     
  31. PCdiva

    PCdiva Connoisseur

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  32. PCdiva

    PCdiva Connoisseur

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  33. PCdiva

    PCdiva Connoisseur

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  34. DistantSun

    DistantSun Rookie

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    May 3, 2011

    Thank you so much for thinking of me, PC! I get the weekend Times so had seen those, but not the first link you posted. I also have a pre-interview on Friday so thank you for all the good wishes!
     
  35. PCdiva

    PCdiva Connoisseur

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    Good Luck!
     

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