Is this a school??

Discussion in 'General Education Archives' started by becky, Apr 20, 2005.

  1. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Apr 27, 2005

    Hey, teachers! Let's not be knocking public schools now that we're all feeling warm and fuzzy about private schools. I had a great education in public schools and so have my kids. I teach in a great public school with PROFESSIONALS (all certified, licensed and most have Masters degrees plus additional grad credits/professional development) My district offers tremendous professional development, a staff developer,our test scores are good, supportive parents, a collegial staff, a very competitive salary- all of which enable the district to appeal to/be selective in choosing great teachers.
    It's a personal choice (public or private) in many cases for parents but I do sympathize for parents who live in areas with terrible public schools who have to pay(sacrifice to pay for) for private school.

    We're mostly all teachers here- we know there are good and bad schools, great, good, and substandard teachers.... The question is what are we doing to change things for our kids and the ones we teach?
     
  2. Lovelabs

    Lovelabs Comrade

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    Grammy,Those are interesting comments about public schools. In our area parents are moving their children to our school from private school because the private schools aren't equipped to work with special needs children. We have bright, polite, HAPPY children in our public school. It's all a matter of preference. If I sound a bit defensive, I guess I am. I'm really proud of my school, staff, and children.
     
  3. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Apr 27, 2005

    Hey grammy- did you change your name to Patricia Ann?
     
  4. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    czacza, Yes, I did because the "newness" of being a first time grama has worn off and I find it a bit more personal to use my real name!!! I do apologize for sounding so "against" public schools. It's not fair to make that generalization. I am referring to our local schools because I have heard so many negative comments in the past few years. There are lots of good teachers who I am friends with, but from what I hear it is the administration and the school board who they have problems with. I worked for them for a short time and was not impressed. Sometimes I have a tendency to become quite negative in posting after I read certain other posts and they sound so bossy and unkind, I get caught up in their ways. I do apologize to you, czacza because you have a nice way of expressing yourself.
     
  5. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Hey, Patricia Ann- no offense taken!! Thanks for the compliment! :p It is easy to get bogged down sometimes, overwhelmed with our jobs and then when someone else starts going negative- it just makes it easier to go there.
     
  6. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    I just have a hard time with the debates. Sometimes they are so one-sided and it just doesn't pay to offer my opinions. I think I should stick to the games!
     
  7. becky

    becky Enthusiast

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    Apr 27, 2005

    Patricia Ann is my sister's name- and get this- my husband's first wife's name!!
     
  8. becky

    becky Enthusiast

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    OOhhh, and my husband's first wife's birthday is three days before mine, same year!!
     
  9. becky

    becky Enthusiast

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    LOL. I just talked to a parent of a child who attends the school where the teachers aren't certified. I found out the teachers there are all- GASP !!-
    former homeschool mothers!! Well, all but one who worked in a preschool before she came to this school.

    I think I'll send my hubby a bill for 4,000.00 for all the work I've done with Jeanne!! It's been 4 years now- should I push for arrears??
     
  10. sbtellmann

    sbtellmann Companion

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    Jun 19, 2005

    In response to the dress code talk, most of the public schools around here even have a uniform their children must wear- just like the Catholic schools. The public school kids wear a certain color polo top and navy blue or khaki pants. The girls' skirts must be 2 inches above the knee- exactly like the Catholic schools. And our private schools do have all certified teachers. I guess it depends where you live. Becky, just look around, I bet you'll find a good school for your daughter somewhere!
     
  11. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    Wow! What a thread! It was an interesting read. Whether you homeschool, send your child to private, charter or public school every parent wants what is best for their child(ren)! There are great teachers everywhere, and I'm guessing that some are not certified. At the same time there are those not so great teachers who are certified. A great teacher wants what is best for her children, the ones she may have given birth to (or helped to concieve so I'm not being sexist here), and the ones that she/he teaches, coaches or otherwise works with.
     
  12. Irissa

    Irissa Cohort

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    Jun 19, 2005


    My county is typical of the counties around here starts their bae's at 30000. I have a master's and first rung there starts at 32.


    Ris
     
  13. Danny'sNanny

    Danny'sNanny Connoisseur

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    To teach at the private school in my area you don't have to be certified. My dad taught algebra to help w/ my sisters tuition. He was usually about a chapter ahead of the kids. Its fun to talk to his old students ( I dated one, on our first date it was funny cuz his friends were reminiscing (SP) about the good ol days when dale was their teacher, they didn't know that he was my dad, lol).
    I tried to get a job there as afternoon kinder teacher during my senior year of high school, but they wanted someone who was older. They couldn't find anyone else who was willing to work for the pennies that they were offering, but by the time the offered me the job, i'd registered for college classes during that time slot and arranged to volunteer in public school classrooms. But I can guartantee you all- if I had taken the job, I would have made sure that I gave each of those kids a quality educational experience. Just because I don't have a piece of paper (YET!!) doesn't mean that I am not a good teacher. I have over 5 years of teaching experience and I care about each of my students. However, finishing my degree will be nice cuz nanny pay is not much!
     
  14. Danny'sNanny

    Danny'sNanny Connoisseur

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    and I know 5 years doesn't sound like much to a lot of you, but at my age, that's most of my life ;)
     
  15. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    What Danny'sNanny says makes sense. The truth is private schools pay a lot less than public. The conditions are generally a lot nicer, too, in that there are less serious behavior problems, and the class sizes are usually drastically lower than in public. So, teachers who are not certified (teachers who have moved here from out of state or out of district, mostly, and don't want to bother getting recertified) are willing to accept the pay as long as they don't have to jump through hoops to get certified. Sometimes these are very experienced teachers who don't want to take extra courses at this point.

    If the body which accredits that particular private school does not require certification, then the school is free to hire at its discretion. This means that they can choose candidates who have not maintained certification, those from other private schools who never had certification, 'born' teachers who have the gift of teaching, people from another field that lends itself to teaching.

    For example, we have a great teacher who was an artist, had coached for years, and who ran her own website design company. She offered our school talents in several areas which made her very valuable - and cost-effective. I don't know what her bachelor's degree is in. Another teacher at our school is a brilliant young woman who has a BA in English from Notre Dame. She is also a tennis pro. She is a remarkable resource for our school. To have had to turn down these wonderful applicants because they did not meet the local school district requirements would have precluded us from utilizing their tremendous talents. Since we did not have our hands tied in that manner, the school was free to offer them positions. They both add greatly to the breadth of experience among our staff. We have teachers with master's degrees in ESE from other states, one who is retired (though in his 50's) and not interested in pursuing our county certification at present. Thank goodness we have them.

    Our school does not offer the same incentive packages which public school offers. However, for most of us, the other benefits outweigh the low salaries. And we have a first-rate staff.
     
  16. Azelia

    Azelia Rookie

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    Jun 20, 2005

    Wow! :eek: Quite a lot to be said in this forum.
    I just wanted to take a moment to comment on what Scarlet_Begonia had to say about the following:



    I, too, work in a private school. There are many pros and cons to this. Many of the teachers in private schools are not certified. I for one am not. :( I am currently working on my Masters in Education with certification. The first time I stepped into the classroom I really had no idea what to do except what I had learned during my high school and college years. Well, as such I have used the boring lecture style for many years. However, when I took my first education class my eyes :) were opened to better methods of teaching. Which have since effected my teaching style in the classroom.

    I wanted to say that the screening process really serves two purposes if you look at both sides. The private school has developed a mission statement that sets the standard for its enrollment, and many of the private schools maintain a status quo of teaching the average student. No that might not set well when first tasted. But the school has already determined what type of students it wants inside. So the screening process helps to removes those that are not wanted. The screening process also helps the student. If the school is not capable of helping a student, then the students' needs should be met in some other way.

    If I had a deaf child, that child would not be able to attend the school where I teach because there are no resources availabe there to help the child. The child would suffer and not receive adequate instruction. I would have to either send my child to a public school in the area or find a private school that could meet the child's needs. In fact, our school has no certified teachers.(When I get my certificaiton, I will be the only one.) There is not one of us who has the creditials to help a child with special needs. Our school does not recieve any funding from the state or federal government at all not even for special education services.

    I have a 3rd grader who is ADHD. He has special needs. However, because of his intellectual abilities, he is able to stay in the classroom. We have had to implement other regiments at home to help him function as needed in the classroom, and we make sure that the teachers are aware of his condition. This helps the teacher understand his behavior and how to deal with him. However, if he wasn't capable of sitting in this private school's classroom and function in a way that was consistent with the mission statement, then he would have to go to a different school. Do I like this as a parent? No. But when looking for a private school, it is imperative to know its mission statement and to know your child's needs. Then you try to find a good match for both sides.

    When I go shopping, I can choose to go to Kroger, 7-11, Walmart, General Dollar, or another store. Where I go will have different products; some of which are better or worse because those stores have made a choice of what products to sell. I make the choice of what to buy and where. It's the same with private schools.

    We all want the best for our children. I hope that you can find a good match for your family. :)
     
  17. Lovelabs

    Lovelabs Comrade

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    Elizabeth,
    Perhaps, until recently, public schools in your area have been hiring non certified teachers, but not here. Unless, of course, you consider 40 years ago recently! Let's not generalize. I'm sure there are non-certified teachers out there who do a fine job. Personally, I don't think anyone should be teaching without the proper training. That might not be a popular oppinion, but it's mine.
     
  18. stace615

    stace615 Rookie

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    I am a catholic school teacher and prefer it to public school currently because of NCLB. I hold dual certification and a Master's degree. Every teacher in my school is certified, many with Master's. I work more hours than a public school teacher---we don't have all of the resource people that public schools have. If I coach it is voluntary. I make about $10,000 less than if I was in public school.

    But, I have a smaller class size, fewer discipline problems, more family involvement, and a wonderful atmosphere to work in. I can do things like bake Christmas Cookies with my students after school, have a beach party for my class, and form stronger bonds with my students and their families because of the smaller size.

    The income is an issue, but not enough of one for me to go to public school until NCLB cycles through.
     
  19. teacher62604

    teacher62604 Companion

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    Please note, this is just my personal opinion.

    Being a Christian, I feel it is great that we have the opportunity to send our children to private schools HOWEVER, being a public school teacher I have to say that I personally will send my children to PUBLIC school. This is why:

    1. ALL teachers in public schools must be certified and keep current on their certification.

    2. There are SO many standards that teachers/principals/schools/districts are required to meet nowadays that it is reassuring. Private schools are not required to meet any standards.

    3. If public schools do not meet national/state standards they can be put on a "watch" list, and possibly even shut down. Private schools on the other hand don't have to meet any kind of standards.

    As much as I think private schools are a good thing, and I am so glad for thier moral values, I think that for a well-rounded Standard-Based education (remember this is my opinion), I would send my child to public school.

    Also, I wanted to comment on salaries. In Indiana or Illinois, the highest starting salary would probably be 35,000. Most schools start around 29,000 - 30,000. I have even seen some schools a few years ago when I was interviewing that started at 27,000! I was like, wow, that's low.
     
  20. bam451

    bam451 Rookie

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    I agree! What's the point of this forum if you get attacked for making a comment or asking a question.
     
  21. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    teacher62604, I never really realized that the private schools didn't have to meet a certain criteria or answer to anyone. That makes me think that I wouldn't want my child to go to one. However, from my experience in teaching, the children who have gone to these private schools, have stood out to me as better mannered and better behaved. I know a few adults who went to these schools as well and they all say that they are very strict and instill manners and deep personal values in children. Perhaps that is reason enough to send your child to a private school. Just my thoughts.
     
  22. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    People who work at private schools can have the best motives because money certainly isn't in the equation. The people I work with love the fact that we can devote 100% of our time to teaching because we have so few behavior problems. Also because teachers with small classes are able to help individual children more easily. We can also positively affect social interaction, personal development, self-esteem issues, kids on the fringe of things. It is rewarding to see children who might get lost in other environments thrive in ours. Schools have to be very careful (of course there are background checks) to select teachers who can carry out their philosophies and who are personally accountable and responsible teachers.
     
  23. stace615

    stace615 Rookie

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    school standards

    I appreciate your input. I think that public vs. private isn't so much the question anymore as is verifying the school's standards. I am lucky for my children because our school requires all teachers to be certified and continue with ACT 48. We have high quality teachers that are there because of a strong desire to teach.

    There are public schools that suffer from teacher shortages and do have uncertified people teaching as do private schools. However, a parent needs to look at the whole picture. I have to follow all PA standards and National standards for each lesson, each class. I also have to answer not only to the same standards as all PA teachers, I answer to diocese standards.

    Not all private schools are as strict in their expectations or hiring practices. Both dedicated public and private school teachers should be valued more than we are in some communities. It is often seen as a second class job. (how many times have you heard "those who can do, those who can't teach" I HATE THAT)

    We are all there to help the students succeed---
     
  24. mrs. dub

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    This thread is really long and I didn't get a chance to read every word, but the points peolpe make about public vs. private schools are very interesting. We all need to remember that it's all relative--public schools in some states (or even cities) may vary greatly from private ones. For example, here in Arizona I think we are ranked 48th out of the 50 states in academic achievement. You bet I'll be thinking twice about putting my child in public school here!

    Also, on the certified vs. uncertified argument--I know some certified teachers who are HORRIBLE! Certification does not equal a good teacher!
    It merely means that someone successfully completed the requirements for state certification. It gives us no clue how "good" a teacher is. You have to judge that on an individual basis, using criterion that's important for you.

    Just my two cents...
     
  25. hanvan

    hanvan Connoisseur

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    Thanks Amanda, I was reading this and feeling very sorry for Becky. I am on another forum (not a teacher forum) and it gets like that and I actually stopped chatting because it was getting too heated for me.
     
  26. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    hanvan, What did you just "thank" Amanda for? I am confused by your post.
     
  27. JenPooh

    JenPooh Virtuoso

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    Grammy, on the first page, I believe, Amanda stopped the senseless attacking going on and got the discussion back on track to where it should have stayed. I was confussed by that too, being such an old thread and went back to refresh my brain on the topic. That, in a nut shell, is what she was thanking her for (and yes, thank you too Amanda, it got very juvenile and many generalizations were made).

    mrs. dub, I think you said it perfectly. Every school, every area, and every teacher is different. The best teachers are the ones with heart and the natural ability to teach and love children.
     
  28. countrygal

    countrygal Rookie

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    I went to a religious school where the teachers are not certified. They did however receive training through the type of school. However in high school, I did the training as part of my credit and taught the last two years of my high school during the afternoon. The training did not teach me how to deal with certain situations such as dealing with children who may have learning disabilites, etc.. It basically taught procedures that the school was required to follow. It various from school to school. The best thing to do is to question the school and observe the classes for a few days. It was great for me because I could focus and sit still, but some of the kids there had trouble and fell behind in their work. As far as teaching, we received a great education and I was able to do well on my ACT, college, and state tests. Many of the other students did well too. I do believe that every school needs to have training on learning disorders, diagnosing, and how to deal with the situations so that the children do not fall so far behind.
     

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