Is the market for Elementary Teachers really flooded?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by TattyTeach20, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. TattyTeach20

    TattyTeach20 Rookie

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    Hey all! :)

    Like the title states, I am curious as to whether or not elementary teachers are flooded in the teaching market. Will it really be that hard for me to get a job? I don't plan on applying until the year 2019/2020. I have worked with children previously, as I have always been a Pre-K teacher up until we had our two kiddos. Now, I have been a stay at home mommy and going to school so, once I apply for jobs, they will both be in school :) Will I have a hard time finding a job then? I keep hearing on the news that the teaching market is booming like crazy and by the years 2020/2022 there will be a huge need for teachers however, I keep seeing in forums saying that elementary teachers won't be able to find a job! I will also have a second license in SPED, if that helps out at all. How is the outcome for elementary teachers in your area? Thanks!
     
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  3. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    It will be easiest if you tell us the states you are interested in - lots of variation.
     
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  4. TattyTeach20

    TattyTeach20 Rookie

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    Sorry about that! I am mainly interested in Indiana as that is where I currently live :) however, Arizona and Missouri are runners up!
     
  5. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    I keep hearing from other posters in this forum that the state of Indiana is a horrible place to teach in. Teachers make pitiful pay and get bashed by the state government and media constantly. Same thing goes for Arizona. I don’t know anything about Missouri, though!

    Concerning the over saturation of elementary schoolteachers in the market, it does look good:

    http://hechingerreport.org/colleges-producing-too-many-elementary-teachers-data-says/

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1917569

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/09/americas-teaching-force-by-the-numbers/404590/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/03/03/389282733/where-have-all-the-teachers-gone

    https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordeba...s-overpaid/there-are-simply-too-many-teachers

    https://www.collegechoice.net/demand-for-educators/

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/todays-newest-teachers-face-tough-job-odds-high-turnover-2

    https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/906241

    There are far more elementary teachers than the market has a demand for. Consider becoming a middle school or high school teacher, instead. However, I will also note there is a huge demand for SPED teachers and so that will help you find a full-time teaching position.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  6. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    In California, I always see a ton of openings for elementary school teachers year round. If you type 'Elementary Teacher' in Edjoin, there are over 20 pages of job listings.

    Edit- Also to add in. Many schools even hire teachers who don't have a credential yet, as long as you are in the process of getting one. I just finished my first semester of the credential program, and I have an interview tomorrow for a full-time teacher position for next school year.
     
  7. TattyTeach20

    TattyTeach20 Rookie

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    Hmmm...That's so strange lol I know the school districts around me start at 40k a year, as a new teacher! I do know that the government has been trying to get younger people in by giving them scholarships however, I thought that was for the Title 1 schools. Thank you!
     
  8. TattyTeach20

    TattyTeach20 Rookie

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    I wish I could move to California, lol! The cost of living there is crazy or we would move there in a heartbeat! However, the likelihood of being able to buy a home would be slim =/
     
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  9. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    Yes, it is extremely expensive. The only affordable areas are in the central valley, and those cities have the most highest crime rates. It's also an over-populated state...I actually want to move out of here too. I was planning to move to Texas and just do the credential program there, but from the looks of it, it is even more difficult to become a teacher in Texas than California.
     
  10. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    ,
     
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  11. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    ,
     
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  12. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    That may be true in some places, but it is not true in all places. There are quite a few locales where you can buy decent-sized homes in the 200-350k range. That’s what I’m doing right now. I’m in the process of looking for a home while saving and investing my tutoring money heavily.
     
  13. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    The states with the best starting salaries generally have the most competition for jobs. In NJ, starting salaries hover arund 50K and the competion for jobs in Elem. Ed. is strict. VA has similar salaries but maybe slightly less competition. Missouri has better salaries in St. Louis and Kansas City, lower elsewhere. I don't know much about Arizona. Nevada is considered a good place to look, especially if you also have SPED. SPED will increase your job offers, but you have to actually be willing to teach SPED for that to take affect.
     
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  14. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    But if next to no one wants to work there, that says something about the low pay and work climate, doesn’t it? I could care less if I was guaranteed a job somewhere if it didn’t pay well and my work environment was toxic.
     
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  15. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    My recommendation is not to move to the Central Valley (Fresno, Modesto, Merced, Bakersfield) trust me...those cities aren't great. The only one city in California that I would want to live in is Temecula (Southern CA) the houses are affordable, but they are more in the 300-400k range.

    Edit- Also, check out areavibes.com . It's really a great website to see the crime rates and livability scores :)
     
  16. futuremathsprof

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    I don’t live anywhere near those areas and don’t plan on living there either. Thanks, though!
     
  17. YoungTeacherGuy

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    I live in one of the four cities you mentioned. Pay is phenomenal--among the best in the state of CA, actually. As a 5th year teacher, I was able to purchase a brand new beautiful home on a teacher's salary...and I did it completely on my own.

    I don't know any Central Valley teachers who don't own their own home. With beginning salaries at 55-60K and home prices at 200k....well, you can do the math.

    Crime rate is incredibly high, though, unfortunately.
     
  18. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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  19. TattyTeach20

    TattyTeach20 Rookie

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    Thank you so much for your response! :) Yeah, I wouldn't mind teaching SPED however, my heart is in elementary. I also am not too upset with different pay rates because, I'm doing it to help out kids and to have a fun job that I enjoy since our kids will be in school. Fortunately, I don't need to actually work and am only wanting to do it because, I enjoy working. I don't need the money as much so, that's not a huge deciding factor for me. I could relocate if we absolutely had to however, it would be for a state that is warmer like Arizona, Georgia, South Carolina, etc. I would prefer to stay in Indiana as we could build a new home here before I accept a job and call it, "home." However, it's so hard for me to find out how the job market is, that I don't want to stay here and never be able to get a actual teaching job, not a sub job. I could also get a Masters, if I need to.
     
  20. TattyTeach20

    TattyTeach20 Rookie

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    I was more or less comparing it to where we live and have lived in the US :) Not just the housing but, the gas, food, etc. too. California in general is pretty expensive to live in, compared to most of the states.
     
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  21. TattyTeach20

    TattyTeach20 Rookie

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    I grew up in MO so, I am pretty familiar with Missouri-thank you so much for the information. :) I am not too worried about the pay as much as I am about getting an actual job that isn't in a title 1 school. I don't need the money, as much as I just want to have a job that I love doing and something where I can help kids out :) I wouldn't mind relocating however, I would at least need some advance notice as we do have two younger kids and a cat plus, my husband would have to transfer his job wherever we moved, if we had to.
     
  22. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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  23. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    True, but I have never personally noticed because I’ve never had trouble paying bills or having to worry about making payments on time. Where I live, I only pay $620/month in rent, $75 for utilities and internet, $71/month for cellphone, $250/month for food, $300/month for car payment (half paid off by putting $10,000 down and I purchased it in May 2017), $187/month for car insurance, and $200/month for gas. This is only $1,703 a month and my monthly salary is $5,828 after taxes (tutoring money plus teaching salary). I just don’t see how anyone can struggle living on $4,125/month after paying all their bills. When I hear people say that California is expensive to live in I just don’t see it IF you have disposable income every month. o_O
     
  24. TattyTeach20

    TattyTeach20 Rookie

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    You're absolutely right, I could however, I hate subbing :( I used to for Pre-K and I hated not having my own room to call home so, I ended up just being a stay at home mom. I thought about volunteering at the school I'm going to do observations/Student teaching at to get my foot in the door.
     
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  25. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Most people don't pay $620/month for rent, though. I have a modest home in a large city, purchased at an excellent price, and my mortgage is twice that. I'm not in Cali. My cell phone bill is about three times what yours is.

    For larger families, the utilities, food, and gas bills will be significantly higher than yours, while the salary stays the same. Daycare expenses alone could potentially wipe out all your disposable income.
     
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  26. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    If you are willing to move to Southern Nevada (Las Vegas area), you have a really good chance of landing a job.
     
  27. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Who is your cellphone carrier? Is it a family plan? That is ridiculously huge. And even if my rent was three times what I pay now I would still have $2,885/month extra. Let’s say my food bill is twice it is now, I would then have $2,635 extra. Let’s say my utility bill is four times what I pay now, I would still have $2,410 extra. I still don’t see it.
     
  28. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    It is a family plan with a few special devices. Even without many of the extras, we'd be looking at probably twice what you pay.

    Let's say you have two kids in daycare at a cost of $1,500/mo, which is less than many people pay. That brings you to about $1,000 per month left over. You may also need to pay for their healthcare at $800/mo, which brings you to $200 extra per month. You do occasionally need to purchase clothing, shoes, and other items for both yourself and your children. You may also need to cut back on your tutoring hours, because more hours spent tutoring equals more hours for your children in daycare equals more money spent on daycare. There may be a catastrophic vehicle malfunction or a trip to the ER or a leak in the pipes at your house. You may want to purchase a life insurance policy or contribute to a retirement or investment account or a college savings plan for your kids. You may have student loans in repayment. You may occasionally want to go on a vacation or out to the movies or buy Christmas presents.

    Money goes quickly, especially when there are several people in your household. That's what I'm trying to say.
     
  29. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Very valid, but most parents who can afford daycare have one person working, so why wouldn’t the stay-at-home mother or father look after the children? They could save money by doing the babysitting instead of paying someone else to do it. Also, my healthcare is 100% covered by my workplace. One of the many perks of my awesome school! And dental is basically nothing ($10/month for a stellar plan). It is slightly greater for a family plan.

    Also, I only tutor like 8-10 hours a week, not including the weekends. If I tutored more I could very easily eclipse six figures — right now, my gross salary before taxes is $82,000, on average.
     
  30. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I don't know very many families with a stay-at-home-parent, maybe three? Most families I know are either single-parent households or two-parent households where both parents work. I don't know if this is typical or not across the country, but it's my experience.

    My job also covers my healthcare, but not everyone's does. Many jobs that do cover employee premiums don't cover the premiums for all family members.

    My point is that your experience is valid insofar as it is yours. It's not fair to apply it to others across the board with an implication that others are not managing their money properly. As I've pointed out, there are different family dynamics, different incomes, and different expenses.
     
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  31. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    According to The Pew Research Center:

    About half of American adults lived in middle-income households in 2014, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of government data. In percentage terms, 51% of adults lived in middle-income households, 29% in lower-income households and 20% in upper-income households.

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.pewr...1/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/?amp=1

    It seems like the vast majority of Americans are middle class and above. My thoughts are reflective and based off of this.
     
  32. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    From the Bueara of Labor Statistics:

    Parents

    The labor force participation rate--the percent of the population working or looking
    for work--for all women with children under age 18 was 70.5 percent in 2016. The
    participation rate for married mothers (67.9 percent) remained lower than the rate
    for mothers with other marital statuses (76.0 percent). The unemployment rate for
    married mothers was also considerably lower than for mothers with other marital
    statuses--3.2 percent, compared with 7.8 percent. (See table 5.)

    Mothers with younger children are less likely to be in the labor force than mothers
    with older children. In 2016, the labor force participation rate of mothers with
    children under 6 years old was lower than the rate of those whose youngest child was
    6 to 17 years old (64.7 percent versus 75.0 percent). The participation rate of
    mothers with infants under a year old was 58.6 percent. Among mothers with infants,
    the participation rate of married mothers was lower than the rate of mothers with
    other marital statuses--57.6 percent versus 60.8 percent. The unemployment rate of
    mothers with infants who were married, at 3.0 percent, was substantially lower than
    the rate for mothers with other marital statuses, at 12.2 percent. (See tables 5
    and 6.)

    In 2016, 92.8 percent of all men with children under age 18 participated in the labor
    force. The participation rate for married fathers, at 93.6 percent, continued to be
    higher than the rate of fathers with other marital statuses (87.7 percent). Married
    fathers also continued to have a lower unemployment rate (2.6 percent) than fathers
    with other marital statuses (7.0 percent). (See table 5.)

    In 2016, 95.6 percent of employed fathers worked full time, compared with 76.3 percent
    of employed mothers. Among employed mothers, those with young children were somewhat
    less likely to work full time than those with older children. Employed fathers were
    about equally likely to work full time, regardless of the age of their children. (See
    tables 5 and 6.)

    https://www.bls.gov/news.release/famee.nr0.htm
     
  33. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I don't see how this relates to what I said above...? What are you getting at with these stats and the stats in your other post?
     
  34. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    I think it is self-explanatory. 71% of all Americans are middle-class and above and millions of mothers look after the children, so many don’t pay for daycare. This was not mentioned, but the median salary is 59k and if two parents are working then they make enough money to live off of, even in places like California.
     
  35. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    My personal opinion is that if I am going to get paid for doing the same job but in different districts, I prefer to be paid more. I know that I am giving 100% every day, and I put a lot of education into what I do. Since there is no guarantee that any of us will live through tomorrow, I would like to think that I could either leave more behind, or should I end up alone, I would prefer to think I could provide for myself. All the well wishes will only take me so far, so I prefer to be paid what I am worth. I have a couple of masters and a handful of certifications - I'm worth more than bare minimum.
     
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  36. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Couldn’t agree with you more! :)
     
  37. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    *parents

    I guess I'm still not seeing how this is self-explanatory.

    I grew up in a middle-class household with two working parents. My siblings and I went to daycare. My own household now is middle-class with two working parents. My children go to daycare. Nearly all my colleagues have either single-parent households or households with two working parents, so nearly all their kids go to daycare.

    Daycare costs money, even if you're middle-class.
     
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  38. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    You are missing a lot of realities - parents paying alimony and child support, parents providing total care for parents unable to live on Social Security, people so in debt for a variety of reasons that there is nothing left after paying the bills, people with high medical bills not covered by insurance, job loss, loss of a spouse, and the list goes on.
     
  39. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    I want to know where in California is the rent $620 a month? I live near Modesto (unfortunately) and my rent is $900 in a decent area (my apartment is only 600 sq ft too and not updated)...the more crime filled locations are $600-$800. It's really hard to afford to live in a good neighborhood in California. The only affordable cities I'm aware of in California are all in the Central Valley, which are over populated and crime infested (trying to get outta here). All other cities in Northern and Southern CA are pricey. Property taxes are pricey too as well as house insurance. California is an expensive state to live and it's way over-populated (traffic is always busy...everywhere...). Imo...it's not worth living here; I really want to move to Texas where it's affordable and people are more friendly.
     
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  40. TattyTeach20

    TattyTeach20 Rookie

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    That's what I was wondering lol some of my family lives in Cali and they always complain about the costs. When they come to visit, they love the low costs of gas, food, the better traffic, etc. Plus, the square footage of houses. You can easily buy a house for 200k here that is 2,000 square feet, brand new. I love Cali however, the cost of living is just outrageous lol I also have kids, and plan on having four kids. Daycare, bedroom for each kid, etc. would be double there compared to everywhere else.
     
  41. TattyTeach20

    TattyTeach20 Rookie

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    That's what I was wondering lol some of my family lives in Cali and they always complain about the costs. When they come to visit, they love the low costs of gas, food, the better traffic, etc. Plus, the square footage of houses. You can easily buy a house for 200k here that is 2,000 square feet, brand new. I love Cali however, the cost of living is just outrageous lol I also have kids, and plan on having four kids. Daycare, bedroom for each kid, etc. would be double there compared to everywhere else.
     

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